Formula305FI

Alright a friend of mine just got a 90 Mustang with 124k on it, it feels ballsy. He bet me he could rip me a new one with this car, im thinking he can... We set a date and everything. So i have until july 7th to show him my 305 can hang with his 302... I dont want to swap in a 350 because my 305 only has 60k on it.. I have a 1k limit i can work with, so all and anyhelp would be gr8. All mods in sig... I know i need gears and that will cost me 550 installed all parts. so im down to 450... HELPPPPPPPPP

82Z28NAZ

go to a junk yard and find a rear end that has the gears you want in it. it would be a lot less than $550.

steve8586iroc

Ok, how about an LT1 cam(used), valve springs(new), 1.6 roller rockers, Ultiment tbi mods, RPM intake(or Weiand Stealth) and a big bottle of nitrious.

Steve

TBIfly

Id go with Steve8586 here.

-LT1 cam runs about $50 or so, used.
-Chase down a S-10 with automatic, gonna have 3.73/4.10 gears i think...or 3.42/3.73. They also will have posi...but those units are kinda cheesy. You can take the whole 10-bolt rear off a '87GMC Jimmy I think...and just bolt that up where yours is, runs 3.73 gears and I may be mistaken but also has posi. Any route here will run you about 200 total if you swap rearends...getting used gears and having them installed= approx 300+. New Richmond geras and pro install=500+. YOUR CHOICE
-bump the i/e on those heads to 1.94 intake/1.50 exhaust
-new chip if you wish, Jet Performance runs about 150 give or take, dont remember.
-1.6 roller rockers/new valve springs.....do both if you plan on doing one, since you will be in there anyhow.
-Ultimate TB mods
-ever think about removing some items for that race, just for racing.....dump the seats, the dash, the console, your speakers/system. Dump everything thats in the trunk. This will save you about 200+ lbs........... -100 lbs=
-.01 sec..........rule of thumb
-paint your car black (black cars are naturally faster)
-new intake/carb combo....if you have the stock TBI on there...use a 2 bbl carb, 600cfm maybe.

All of these mods will run about 1200-1500 bones....pick and choose man, but if i were you...

-Rearend (richmond gears with posi unit/pro install)-$600-750
-intake-$150-200
-TBI mods (virtually free)
-LT1 cam-$50
-springs/1.6 roller rockers-$up to 200

this is about 1200 here, but by July you had better saved another couple bills.

gl and post results
-blain

Beast5spdGTA

What does your friend's mustang have? and/or how fast does it run? If he's running 13s, you're going to need nitrous to compete with your budget, simple as that.

If his car is going to stay close to stock and in the 14s then all the mods others listed will give you a chance(it'll will be hard to do it for that budget though). See sig.

If your on a budget, I do not reccomend roller rockers. Cost vs. power isn't worth it IMO.

I'd also say skip on the JET/hypertech chip and get someone(friend maybe??) to burn a CUSTOM chip for your set up after the cam is in.

Headers are extremely important to going fast IMO.

Getting your car to hook will do wonders too, think slicks/Drag radials and LCA and LCA re-location brackets.

A car running 14.2 @ 93 mph b/c it has a 1.8-1.9 60' is still faster than the car that spins and runs 14.4 @ 98 mph b/c of 2.3-2.4 60'.

That's assuming you want to win 1/4 mile or less races, where traction is important. Racing from a roll or highway is totally different, where the most HP vs. weight almost always wins.

JR305

I would just get 3.42 gears and a nitrous kit that would be just slightly over the 1k limit.

But if you don't want to run nitrous I would get a set of used TPI heads, shouldn't run you too much more than $100. Have a machine shop check them out then do home porting job on them. There is a great thread on porting these heads and I think a member got them to flow around 240cfm (more than vortec heads). Then try to find a used carb single plane manifold for around $120 and an adapter plate which I think runs around $40. Then pick up an LT1 cam for around $50 and some 55pph injectors $80. I am assuming you would be doing all the work yourself for these mods. This should run ok with a VAFPR as long as you get a chip to correct for the injectors. For the chip just find someone that would burn you one to correct for the injectors.

Heads 100
Machine work 100
manifold 120
adapter 40
injectors 80
VAFPR 90
chip 10
cam 50
porting kit 50
gaskets/coolant/oil 200
additional costs 160

total 1000

Formula305FI

His car is basically stock, just the basic bolt ons, cold air intake, and a flowmaster exhaust is all he has, but it feels like it has more ***** then my car where as the entire exhaust is done from headers to tips. I do plan on gettin the lt1 cam, best bang for the buck i would assume, heads.... Its kinda like a good luck finding them around me. So I would prob end up getting some s/r 305 heads. intake I gotta stay epa friendly, so on goes the stealh intake with egr(hope it doesnt need alot to make it work), chip (WHO WANTS TO HELP ME OUT?). I got LCA's sitting in my basement for free... I can also get a set of 3:42s and slp posi for free from my friends 95 camaro(Dont know if they will fit my housing)... I got pullies laying around, ummm i dont know what else i would need, oh prob a shift kit, so ill pick up a level 10 or transgo next week... I dont wanna put my engine on the go baby go juice just yet. I would rather put him in his place just n.a. Thanx for the help guys. And the Ult mods, I could just send that to NJ Speeder or drop it off to him, he lives close to me.

vwdave

Screw the EPA.

The Posi and gears should work.

How did you manage to get all that stuff for your car, and not install them?

brodyscamaro

IMO i wouldnt worry about one race, especially if its against a fox body which might be modded (how do you know he aint gonna mod it?) Any/all money i would spend would be in the best interest in the long run. Gears/posi for sure, however i wouldnt waste too much money on heads for a 305. If you have to beat him add some DR or slicks with nitrous

Beast5spdGTA

I second the don't waste money on the heads, unless you have you're heart set on a 305 like many of us do. You can get into the low 14s on the stock heads.

steve8586iroc

Just remember that whatever mods you go with your still pushing around 600lbs(give or take 50lbs) than he has to so anything you can do to shed a few lb's well helpalso.

Steve

82Z28NAZ

in that case... it wouldn't hurt for you to take him to lunch at an all you can eat buffet.

JesasaurusRex

iTrader: (3)

lol

JesasaurusRex

iTrader: (3)

Id say go 3.73s, limited slip/posi what not, headers, and catback exaust. That should come out 2 right around that 1g mark depending on what brands you buy. Wont give you the horses/torque like nitrous but if your plannin on building up this car anymore your gonna have 2 do those things in teh future anywayz and theyre great mods 2 start off with. If his cars stock those mods should take him. Good luck...stupid stangs

Formula305FI

Ive got headers and a full exhaust, im cutting my cat off next week, so for exhaust mine is complete. Now onto gears, I would really love to run 4:10s because there alot of fun just for everyday play but i dont think the 305 would like that. And yes I am pretty much set on hooking up the 305. How do I got all this stuff laying around???? Well i got it all for xmas, and this winter really sucked so i couldnt really go out and install them, now that everything is clearing up, im gonna be installing them... All I got laying around is pulleys a chip, and a slp posi that wont go in until i do gears, but im undecied about which i really want. As for the N20 Im not all about it... I would rather try and beat his n.a. Would an S10 torque conv. help out on my holeshot, if so which year, i am going with the transgo kit, so when i install all that i could just put that t.c. in also... Now for the fun part. HEADS!!! Any1 got a set forsale??? Intake I think im pretty much set on the weiand unless some1 can convence me other wise, cam is the lt1 with 1.6 r.r.
Thanx for the help guys.

P.S.
I was thinking of getting rid of the bird to, cuz i was kinda getting bored with it, so hopefully this will peak my interest in it once again.

Dan W

The s-10 converter you need is from the truck with the Vortec V-6... one from a '94 ss should work. I think the corvette -w- the 700r4 used the same converter.

That with gears and some drag radials will get you off the line. The converter was around $100 when I bought one, and the tires will be around $380 by the time you get them on the car. Remember he is going to run around a 95-98 mph trap speed so you are going to need to add lots of power so he wont pull on you after the 60' point or from a roll. The easiest way would be nitrous but it doesnt sound like you are into doing it the easy way so you are looking at a heads/cam/intake change. Do a good job porting the heads and be ready to do some prom burning in conjunction with all your airflow mods... oh, you might want to check on the stock fuel pumps limits. I'd go ahead with those 4.10's in this case and a single plane intake like the weiand #7525.

Dewey316

i can let you know mid may how my 305 runs.

i'm doing 416 l69 heads, home port job, wieand 7525 intake (Dan talked me into it ) 454 throttle body, and a comp xtreme energy cam, hooker headers, flows out back, and 3.42s

with lots of my own work, and shopping around, without the headers, i am uner 1k.

SlowMaro

lol did ANYONE suggest an open air element?! if not, ...im suggesting it now lmao.....just do everything thats done in my sig, and you'll rip that 302 a new one, i know i suprise alot of 5.0's..heh....

Formula305FI

I got the open air, look at my sig. i got the extreme open air. Yea so im def. going with the 410s, as for that intake you guys are recommending, does it got an egr hook up???

SlowMaro

holley or edelbrock BOTH have the egr, dunno what other manifold have them...holley has the 2 inch bore, you can send ou tbi off and get it bored to 2 inches for about 150 bucks...not bad....

txhotRS

RACING IN A MUSTANG IS LIKE THE SPECIAL OLYMPICS, EVEN IF YOU WIN YOU ARE STILL RETARDED ... guys, I'm sorry, no offense... but I had to

Dan W

The weiand #7525 does have an EGR provision.

SlowMaro

i heard you had to mod the tbi manifold, is this true?? i thought it was a straight simple manifold swap...am i wrong??

Formula305FI

LOL thats a good one. I used to have a stang I know there no joke when modded, just thought i would try to beat one, lol.. I know my 97 GSX would rip it a new one and its only a 4cyl with 24lbs of boost weeeeeeeeeee :-D lol aight

brodyscamaro

SlowMaro

chevys are no joke when moded as well, after all , they came with more hp (350'sand earlier 305 z's) i know my car will take a stang heh

CHEVYTOWN

Fool Or Retard Daily

It's all about the GENERAL MOTORS GANG

Ctown

Formula305FI

Yea i know once i put enough $$$ into it, i would have no problems, but i only wanna put a g into it, i dont think i can commit all my time to it, lol... Im turning to the darkside of ricers. LoL. I dont think ur moutain dew has more liters then my 2.0 though, i think its about the same, lol but does urs has boost, lol... Yea ill shut up now

Dennis91RS

i hate to say this guys im a chevy fan thru and thru but LO3s won't hang with 5.0 Mustangs unless they are missing on a cylinder or blow up

you need a 350 TPI car dude

SlowMaro

not a stock l03 no. a well modified one, yes. heads cam full exhaust etc etc

Beast5spdGTA

It'll still be very hard to be able to hang with a bolt on 302. and TPI won't help very much. 350 will.

SlowMaro

how the hell does a 302 produce so much power heh...dont make me consider buying a stang....i really dont want to

txhotRS

guys guys guys.. . I REALLY think that everyone UNDERESTIMATE a 305... there is LITTLE difference between 305 and 350... smaller combustion space... slightly smaller bore..( less that 1/4 inch)... with MODS .. the smaller combustion size EQUALS higher compression, If you use the same MOD on a 305 and a 350 ... the 305 WILL react more... AND the original Z28 was a 302... same stroke, almost same bore as the 305 and that made 320 +HP.. that'll take a bolt on 5.0 .. I run WELL OVER 300 HP/.... with a 305 TBI THANK YOU VERY MUCH... ( it does have cam/heads/intake/injectors/chip/headers/gears though )
Whoever is racing the MUSTANG... what mods does HE have, or will by JULY ??
I got some budget secrets... my whole car (including buying the car, rims/paint/engine/tranny/gears) was less than $4100 and I'm in the mid-high 13's

Beast5spdGTA

This is all wrong.
A mustang or old chevy 302 has 4" bore(same as 350) and a 3" stroke. This unshrouds the valves (more flow) and the short stroke makes the engine very rev happy.
A 305 has a small bore and same stroke as a 350 (3.48"?).

EDIT: Most stock 3rd gen F-body after '87 305 or 350 have the same compression 9.3:1.

I run WELL OVER 300 HP/.... with a 305 TBI THANK YOU VERY MUCH... ( it does have cam/heads/intake/injectors/chip/headers/gears though )....
I'm in the mid-high 13's

How do you know you have over 300 hp? Did you dyno it? How do you know you run mid to high 13s? Did you go to the track? Lets seem some proof of these claims.

82Z28NAZ

my stock '82 305 has 9.5 : 1 compression ratio

txhotRS

they don't have the same compression with aftermarket heads/pistons (which is what we are talking about)... and the stroke is the same 3.48, THATS WHAT I SAID... the NEW 350 bore is 4.. and a 305 is 3.74... I wasn't relating MY car with a 302 Z-28... I'm just saying .. with a small CI engine you can still put out power.. why is it so hard to believe that I'm in the 13's you are mid 14, WITH STOCK HEADS/TBI... I have WELL modded PERFORMANCE heads/ aftermarket INTAKE AND TBI, PLUS my 60' is less than 2 (that's what slicks and a torque arm are for)... I'm not trying to be a devils advocate or ANYTHING... I'm just saying that with work... a 305 will move, If I had the time or money to buy and redo a 350 I probably would... but HE doesn't have a 350 and he's asking what he CAN do to a 305, I'm telling him... We would all rather have a 350.. but DONT DISCOUNT SMALL BORE ENGINES

Beast5spdGTA

I totally believe 13s are possible, even with stock heads if you have traction. Just you said the 302 and 305 have the same stroke, they don't, not even close. They're 2 totally different animals IMO.

I agree a 305 can make decent power (300+ flywheel hp), but it seems to take a lot of money/work.

I also tend to only believe timeslips when it comes to how fast a car is. After I got my cam in, I felt like the car was low 14s as opposed to the 14.7 before the cam swap. Guess what the car felt a lot faster, but only ran a 14.6 or 14.5 at the track.

txhotRS

By the way... the reason why the Mustang feels balsy.. is because he has a higher torque curve than you (because of the short stroke of the 302)... he can get moving quicker, but once you get a cam, gears, yours should improve DRAMATICALLY... also he has a higher rev than you do... so BEFORE YOU RACE you need to find out where your power curve is... FOR OPTIMAL ACCELERATION.. you WILL feel the acceleration "drop" after a certain RPM (probably around 5000) (wait... do you have a standard or auto) ???

txhotRS

MY mistake ... about the bore the same... I was thinking bore of 302 and 350...

ilikerocks

90 mustang GT has 225 hp, 300 lbs trq with the exhaust, wont add much more to his car..mustangs of that year were supposed to run high 14s low 15s...seeing as it always seems so damn hard to get the same times as magazines n such put out(probably due to driver skill, hell if i know) he shouldnt be to hard to take with the proper mods..i have an 89 rs 305 tbi..still figuring out what to do with it..i dunno....i just dont see why you are so worried about one race

SlowMaro

blah , go with full exhaust, heaeders hi flow cat conv, or even gut it, muffler, then gears, used rear end with posi and 3.73s ...300 bucks, ..headers...300, muffler, 200 installed, after that slap in an open air element, and whoop his ***!!! those are all the best bang for your buck and easiest to do , .....cam swap, intake, and custom chip would be after that...lets not wage a 305 vrs 350 war here folks , key factor remanins we still own a third gen. regardless to the engine....now kiss and make up lmao

txhotRS

MMMMMMMMMMUUUUUUUUUUUAAAAAAAAAAA Lol I'm not trying to get under anyone's skin .. especially a thirdgen owner... I JUST want people to realize the potential of a 305... mostly because I'm poor and that's what I have to work with, and I've had pretty good luck.. like I said WELL OVER 300 HP and still 17 MPG city and about 23-26 highway... Hey, I'm just trying to help a guy win a race
I suggest full exhaust (minus cat),($300)>> gear, for sure(maybe $500) >>> if you got the time or knowledge, CAM (ebay for $50-100)>>> and potentialy injectors($ 50) (go to tbichips.com custom chip from a thirdgen guy $30) that should be UNDER $1000 and that's plenty of MUSTANG WHOOPIN POWER

SlowMaro

hey thats where i got my cchip from, some guy named brian, 37 bucks shipped and insured, and i feel ya about the 305, i refuse to get rid of mine for some odd reason, i wanna see 300 hp outta it, ..im getting there, ...i need a new intake and L98 ported and polished heads, ill be golden then....

Dan W

I'll post this to help you guys better understand your enemy. I started seriously playing with cars when I had just turned 20 in 1994... the mustang vs camaro thing was in full swing.

I've owned a couple of mustangs, one a '93 GT, the other a '92 notch back... both 5 speed cars. I've also hung with the mustang crowd and can say what I've witnessed from these cars. I've seen bone stock as in no modifications '87 - '93 5.0 5spd LX cars run 14.2 and GT's run 14.4 at 98 and 95 mph respectively. A set of 3.55's or 3.73's nocks about .2 off that. My '93 GT with 3.73's long tube headers, off road H-Pipe and and 2.5" flowmasters ran 14.0@100mph... thats with street tires power shifting and 2.1-2.2 60' times... yes I did the free / low buck stuff too like fine tuning the fuel pressure, bumping up the timing underdrive pullys and short belt, and modifying the air box. These were typical modifications and typical times. With slicks, the sway bar removed and the extra seats removed, I've seen cars like this run 13.6 @ 99 mph. In that trim, the car would weigh in at about 3300 lbs with driver.

I've got documentation showing how much many of those mods are worth on the HO 5.0 mustang motor
Short belt 5 hp @ 5000 rpm
5 degrees extra advance 6 hp @ 5000 rpm
remove air silencer 6 hp @ 5000 rpm
Underdrive pullies 7 hp @ 5000 rpm
Shorty headers 11 hp @ 5000 rpm
H-pipe and 2.5" cat back 10 hp @5000 rpm.

The mustang starts out about 300 lbs lighter with roughly 50 more horse power in stock form. Assuming you are weighing in at 3600 lbs with driver... You will need 285 hp at the wheels to beat the typical gears/exhaust mustang. For reference, when I was driving that '93 GT I was taking on the new LT1 camaros and winning unless they were modified.

This is what you are up against and this is why I say I'd run nitrous.

txhotRS

Mustangs have quick power when they need it... but camaro's can also. the dual exhaust and H or X pipe on mustangs gives them incredible torque.. but the stock manifolds are already tubular and flow away from the engine... headers only help a few HP on a 5.0. when you look at the stock manifold castings on a 305 OR 350 you wonder how air gets out of them at all. I've seen headers , y-pipe, and 3" cat-back on camaros ADD OVER 30 HP and 45 LbsTrq. especially with other mods (cam-heads) Try it on DeskTopDyno...
Mustangs have a shorter stroke... so they have low-end power quicker... HOWEVER since camaro's have a longer stroke they generally have more upper-end power.. If you increase the low-end pull of the camaro (gears, cam) and ESPECIALLY the launch (slicks, torque arm) AND if you have enough upper end HP to keep you going.. you should stand a decent chance of tearing 'em a new one. Unless they have serious mods also.. Well., until you get to a certain point

SlowMaro

can someone please xplain to me why i beat the crap outta mustangs in my 92 305?! lol --not only the 4 cyls but 5.0's-- im serious.....every mustang i come across must be crappy as hell in south carolina, ...cause they see tail lights, ...quick..i musta done something right to my camaro heh.....its not THAT moded

txhotRS

I too have taken SEVERAL 5.0's with a 305... BEFORE the heads/gear/intake/cam
I'm from Houston... Every Sunday night on Homes Rd. all the drag-racing teen-agers appear... MOSTLY with mustangs and camaros... WE ALL wait for hondas and Euros to EAT.. but I HAVE seen A LOT of 5.0 Mustangs get whooped... From my experience (not including drag-cars and top fuel ...) once you get to a certain # of mods... a camaro will pull on a 5.0 when they both have relatively the same stuff, OR AT LEAST SAY THEY DO..

SlowMaro

ive some across alot of mustang owners claiming serious mods but lacking the proof of performance, i dunno whats with them, i obviously openly admitted to starting out with a slow camaro i mean hence my name, ..i guessi should change it to NotsoSlowmaro now...heh

txhotRS

Not to discount Dan W, I have seen some NASTY FAST 5.0s also ... I'm just sort of partial to the wonderful world of CHEVY
guys.. I have a decal on my drivers side mirror... it reads "objects in mirror are mustangs" (I got the idea from a guy in chevy high performance)

brodyscamaro

lets not get into this we all know its easier and cheaper to make mustangs faster then LO3s
i love fox bodys
:hail: ford's fox body :hail: