Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

Well, I bought a LT1 cam today off ebay; and I was wondering what else should I do during the cam swap. I was planning on installing 1.6 roller rockers, these ones:

1.6 - 3/8" Comp Cams 87-Up SBC Magnum Roller Tip Rocker Arms
Price: $194.95
Part # CC1418-16
Type: Self Aligning
Ratio: 1.6

And probably an Edelbrock Peformer TBI intake if I can find one that's reasonable enough.

...Flowtech headers...but anyways, besides all that crap; my question is more in reference to drivetrain parts.

Do I need new lifters or are the stock ones fine? New springs or not?

I plan on putting a new timing chain on since the old slack one will be off anyways, so do yall have any recommendations on that front?

Sorry for all the questions, but thanks ahead of time.

-The Gunny

Woohoo, I have a decent cam!:lala:

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

since our cars have hydralic roller camshafts, the lifters dont wear as quickly so they should still be fine and since you only have 77K on your engine, your springs are more than likely in good shape also.

CamaroDriver

It wouldn't hurt to have stronger springs. The roller lifters are a little heavier than flat tappet so they require a little stronger spring to keep them in check.

Go to www.enginekits.com and there's a set of Z28 springs for $23.95. They're 1.25" OD so they don't require any machining to the head in the spring pockets. They're good to .490" lift which is plenty for the LT1 cam.

grovier

where can i find a lt1 or lt4 hot cam at and for how much. i dont really want to go to ebay.

DuffMan

iTrader: (1)

i dont think there is anything wrong with a used camshaft, but if you want go to gmpartsdirect.com and check out there prices.

PN for LT1 is : 12551705

good luck

brodyscamaro

the springs need to be replaced

brodyscamaro

why dont you want the ZZ4 cam?









check sig

CamaroDriver

You can't give that damn thing away, can ya?

One piece of advice for ya..... Never try car sales, OK?

grovier

is the zz4 cam a better cam then the lt1 or lt4?

brharris27370

I believe you will have coil bind with the stock springs and retainers if you plan on running 1.6 rocker which will give you over .490" lift. Max on the L03 head is about the .460" of the stock LT1 cam. I know I bent a few pushrods and broke some rocker arm studs on my L05 trying to run .480" lift with aftermarket springs and retainers.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

So which springs do yall suggest off of this page? I might go ahead and fork the money out for some new pushrods while I'm at it.

www.enginekits.com

They have the Z-28 springs for $24 (as previously mentioned), but I'm little concerned about those. It says high performance 350....am I'm not up to speed as to whether or not all 87- up SBC heads use similiar springs or what not.

They also have the "stock" replacement springs on the other side of the page for both the 350 and 305.

I don't know, I'm confused....too many choices, and not enough knowledge.

TBI305Camaro

Im pretty sure most SBC springs are the same unless your getting something that will run real big lift. Hey I just replaced my springs with stock l98 springs (brand new) will these be alright with an lt1 cam?

brharris27370

I know a lot of people use these K-Motion 571-K-700 valve springs. But I tried the cheaper kind and believe I got what I paid for. None of them failed but I did bend those pushrods and broke 3 screw in rocker arm studs. Went back to the 1.5 rockers and everything was fine. Some people say the K-motion spring is too cheap but I plan on using them for my next LT1 cam swap.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

So.....so far, it looks like I should get some new springs (still undetermined as to which ones), some new pushrods, and some new rocker arm studs, some 1.6 roller rockers, new true-roller timing chain, and gaskets.

This cam swap is becoming more and more expensive. Well, you know what they say, do it right the first time.

Still need help with determining what springs to get guys. Where would I find those K Motion ones at?

And what are the specs of the rocker arm studs?

brharris27370

I wouldn't replace rocker arm studs unless you have the heads off for other machine work and then I wouldn't invest any money in the stock L03 head. I just mentioned that I broke studs (ARP 190,000psi) from having coil bind when running the 1.6 rockers to squeeze more lift from the cam. I say run the 1.5 rockers and make sure that timing chain is for a roller cam because the bolt pattern is different than the standard roller chain for flat tappet cams. Pushrods are pretty cheap and should be replaced but its not a necessity. New valve springs will let you rev higher than the stockers but if you aren't going to push it past 5500 then stock should be ok their too. It you get the Z28 springs you could probably pull a 6000 rpm redline.

Invest that rocker arm money elsewhere in the goal for more hp.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

Really? Well, while I was doing all of this, I was going to give the heads a 3 angle valve job, and port and polish them. I just really don't feel like paying $700 for some S/R Torquers when our heads can be made to flow pretty decently for a lot less. Grant it, they probably won't make it to the point of S/R Torquers or Vortecs, but I'm not after every little horse.

Back to the springs.....so you're saying go with the Z-28 springs from www.enginekits.com? Sorry about asking you to clarify something that's probably abundantly clear, but I just want to make sure.

r90camarors

If Z-28 springs would work, I assume stock LT1 springs would work as well, and pull higher rpm than stock. Am I right or wrong? Just curious because I have the springs(they came with the cam). The cam is not in yet.

TBI305Camaro

So the l98 springs should work with an lt1 cam? I dont feel like changing them again it was hard enough the first time. I used the rope trick so it took forever. I tried to get lt1 valve springs but no parts places could get them so I just got l98s...

brharris27370

All the Z28, LT1, L98 springs would work and those cars all had a higher redline than a L03. I recommended the Kmotion 700's since they are $43 from Jegs and have a little higher spring rate.

Gunny, If you can port your heads yourself and tap the rocker arms for threaded studs then go for it. But if you have to pay someone to do all that work on your heads you are going to have $400 tied up in heads that aren't going to flow near as well as an aftermarket head. The aftermarket head would also allow for higher lift cam.

You can get the world torquer heads a little cheaper here.

http://www.competitionproducts.com/page5.html

Then you would have your better springs, screw in studs, larger valves and thus more hp. Sometimes it pays to pay a little more and only do the job once to get the results your looking for.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

So the Z-28 springs off of www.enginekits.com are the ones to go with? Good then.....I kept having this thought in the back of my mind that they were referring to the new Z-28's. I would go with the K-motions, but if I can save $20 or so, then all the better.

CamaroDriver

I remember a few guys on this board saying they had TFS heads that came with K-Motion springs. About 20% of them broke. And that means ~3 out of the 16 springs broke, not 20% of the heads had problems.

Know what I mean Vern?

Chuck!

I have the Z28 spring on my heads with the lt1 cam and its fine. Dont see why you would need push rods. Just shoot some air though your stock ones while they're out, they'll be fine. Timing chain is a good idea, mine was loose like (insert joke here) with 120k miles on it.

I wouldnt spend money on the stock heads though except for springs. Keep your eyes out for used SR Torquers, they pop up occasionally.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

Do you have the stock heads still on yours? And if so, what kind of power did you gain with the LT1 cam? And lastly, did you go with 1.6's or did you just keep your 1.5's?

Oh yeah, one more thing....the Z-28 springs that you have, where did you get them from?

JokerRS

I know I'll get flamed for my opinion, but here goes any way. Save all the money you would WASTE on stiffer springs, better push rods, etc and spend it on something that will actually give you some more power. The LT1 cam swap was a low buget mod with a big bang for the buck. In the last year or so the must do list has grown and grown to the point that the cost is scaring away people on a low buget. If your car is in good running condition, all you need is the cam, gaskets, and alittle rtv. We're talking $60-$70 dollars total if you have the tools and the ability to do the work your self.

MY REASONING

1 The LT1 cam is a mild cam, its not a big cam.
2 Your stock valves are small valves, (not a lot of mass for the spring to move). Granted, roller lifters are heavier, but you allready have roller lifters if you have a lo3.
3 Your probably not going to rev past 6000 rpm.
4 We're not talking about building a prostock car, just a fun to drive, reliable, streatable car.
5 If you have alot of money to spend, and for some reason you want to buid a 305, you will probably buy better heads and they will come with bigger valves and stiffer springs.

MY ACTUAL EXPERIENCE WITH A LT1 CAM

I installed one in reusing all of my other stock valve train components.
I had 9xxxx miles on the motor when I installed it.
I drove it a year with no problems what so ever.
In that time, I probably hit 6000 rpms 100 times with no ill effects.

As I said early in my post, these statments aply if your car is allready in good running condition.

JokerRS

I would like to ad that I enjoyed my LT1 cam for the time that I ran it. It worked good with a vacAFPR . I ran a stock type chip and had no problems other then it ran rich at an idle till I installed the GM vacAFPR.
I went to the ZZ4 cam this summer because I wanted a more noticeable power band and a more lopy idle.
For any one considering a ZZ4 cam, aint no way to it will ever run right with out some chip tuning. On the other hand, chip burning isn't as hard as it sounds. If I can do it any body can. I wish I would have fine tuned the LT1 combo with some chip tuning.

JR305

Chuck!

Bastards and your ZZ4 cams making me all jealous

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

What about these heads guys?? I found them in an ad in Chevy Highperformance.

HP GM Heads $475/ pr

76cc
202/160 Valve size
Magnafluxed
Bronze Guides
3 Angle Valve Job
Resurfaced
Stage 1 Ported (blended off seat into valve bowl)
Cut for Screw-in Studs and Guide Plates
Assembled with Stainless Valves
PC Seals
.510 Lift Springs

....and for an extra $100, they'll do a Stage II Match Port.

Now I don't know what all that means (I just copied the ad verbatim), but they seem like a pretty good deal. Would there be any reason as to why those wouldn't fit???.....maybe not for centerbolt valve covers?.....or not 87' and up?.....no EGR??...modification necessary for our intake?

What questions should I ask these people if I call them up?

Does anybody know about this ad? It's on page 103 in the newest issue.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

What is "a little rtv"??

JokerRS

Your stock heads have 58 cc chambers. The 76 cc chambers would drop your compression ratio from 9.3:1 to (i don't know but it would be real low).
RTV is silicone sealer like Permatex blue.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

I can get them with 58cc or 64cc, but since 58 is stock, that's the ones I would choose obviously. So those sound pretty good at the moment, huh?

JokerRS

Just make sure it works togather with the rest of your combo. You mentioned that you would probably go with a performer TBI manifold. I think thats a wise choice. If thats the case then of course you need the 87 and up center bolt stile head.

If I were you, I would skip the head swap. Use the money to do headers and a free flowing exhaust first. Then change the cam and swap intake manifold after your exhuast is done. Otherwise you will be very disapointed at the reasults.

PS I strongly recomend a vacume AFPR with the LT1 cam, other wise your idle will be way rich.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

I'll be sending off my TBI unit to get the ultimate mods done by CamaroRacer1992, once I get stationed in VA. At that time I plan on keeping the non-running car at the hobby shop for the 10 days that it will be gone, and install the exhaust while it's there. That's the plan anyways. Also, follwoing that, I plan on purchasing the heads, timing chain (still need a part number on that from Edelbrock) and manifold; and hopefully I can find a shop up there who will do the work for me real cheap, otherwise, I'll just wait until I get back here. (GA)

Oh well, like they say, a plan is only the plan until the first bullet flies by.

.....does anybody know anything about those heads that I found?

r90camarors

Will proper chip tuning help with the rich idle of the lt1 cam?

jpk91rs

Also keep in mind the valve to deck interference problems that are caused by running big valves(aka 2.02i 1.60e) on the 305. Those big valves will hit the deck.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

Aren't those the same valve sizes used on the S/R Torquers?

http://www.competitionproducts.com/page5.html

TBI305Camaro

The S/R torquer 305 heads come with a 58cc chamber and 1.94intake/1.60 exhaust valves...unless your talking about one of the different heads like the normal S/R torquers then they will have bigger valves. No shop is gonna do this kind of work for cheap trust me...

Hey jokerRS...how much of a performance increase did the lt1 cam give you? Also are you running the zz4 in a 305?

JokerRS

Yes it will. I would say that its the better way to go if you have the time and money for DIY prom burning. You can can get it running aceptable with a vacAFPR but you cant fine tune it. I found out that there is alot of power to be found in playing with the chips timing.

Originally posted by TBI305CAMARO
"Hey jokerRS...how much of a performance increase did the lt1 cam give you? Also are you running the zz4 in a 305?"

The LT1 cam gave me about 3mph in the 1/4.
Yes I am running the ZZ4 cam in a 305. With some chip tuning it has become very drivable.( Its my daily driver). I can't do any 1/4 mile times because when shifting manually my tranny wont shift from 2nd to drive at WOT, it just keeps winding till I let up on it. Then it shifts about 3/4 second later. The 1st to 2nd shift seems to slip a bit at WOT. Even with letting up on it I still managed a Gtec of 14.56 @99mph. I'm not going to go to the track till everything is working. That will be next year if I find the money to yank the trany over the winter.

TBI305Camaro

Ive been messing with the idea of the zz4 cam if i decide to put heads on the 305. world heads will take the lift easy so I might get it im not sure. I also plan on chip burning soon to...just need to get the stuff.

JokerRS

TBI305CAMARO if your going to change your heads and get into chip burning and I'd definently go with the ZZ4 cam or even something alittle hotter. I'm happy with my cam choice now that it is tuned enough to run good. Allthough I dont need a stall converter to be drivable, my launch would benefit from one. If I had much more cam I would probably need one. I wish I would have got into prom burning before I swaped cams, it would have taken some of the pressure off. I got a good deal on my cam, it was a brand new take off from a ZZ4 crate motor for $125 + shipping.
Some day I want to tune a LT4 hot cam but probably on a 350 instead of a 305.
I cant explain how freeing it is to be able to dream of combinations and not worry about how the computer will react. I think every one should get into prom burning. Golly gee, its been along time since I saw my service engine soon light. O thats right, I shut off the EGR and the speed limiter and a few other things I was sick of fighting with, and now I'm in charge of this rig instead of my computer calling the shots. Haaaa, It makes me feal like more of a man just thinking about it. Every F body owner should have this freedom.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

Well on that link I gave yall, the S/R Torquer II's are 67cc and have 1.6 and 2.02 valves; which is the same valve sizes that are on those GM HP heads I was showing yall. The only difference is that I can get the GM HP heads in 58 cc, as opposed to having to jump up to the 67cc.

So how 'bout these heads? I'm going to call them and ask them about the EGR and centerbolt stuff, other than that, these seem like a steal?

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

Actually, after further research; the 305 S/R Torquers come with:

58 cc
1.94 intake/ 1.50 exhaust

http://www.worldcastings.com/tech/rtorquer305tech.pdf

The only difference I can find so far between these heads is that the S/R Torquers' springs are good to .560" lift and the HP GM Heads' springs are good to .510" lift.

That's a fairly big difference, but my LT1 cam shouldn't need the .560" lift right? .510" should be adequate?

brodyscamaro

.510" is adequate for a ZZ4 cam, so its fine for a LT1 cam

brodyscamaro

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

OK, I called the company today and everything seems to check out. He mentioned something about Fel-Pro gaskets, but it was a horrible connection. I believe the reason these are so much cheaper than the S/R Torquers ($475 and free shipping vs. $690) is that these heads are re-conditioned, but if they're magnafluxed, who cares?

Here's the number for anybody who cares: #1-800-722-4645 You have to tell them what year model you have....otherwise they assume pre- 87'

GM HP Heads $475/pr

58cc
194/150 valves
Bronze Guides
3 Angle Valve Job
Resurfaced
Magnafluxed
Stage 1 Ported (blended off seat into valve bowl)
Cut for Screw-in Studs and Guide Plates
Stainless Valves
PC Seals
.510" Lift Springs

Woohoo, I'm gettin' heads:lala:

TBI305Camaro

Im thinking about going carb but im not sure yet. If I go carb im definetly going bigger than a lt1 cam...way bigger. Im not sure what im going to do yet. Im kind of tired of putting up with TBI bull****. Ive had alot of problems and ive had to replace every sensor once. Plus its running pretty lean with my few mods.

brodyscamaro

all i can say is there has not been one person who regreted it to my knowledg

TBI305Camaro

Yeah thats what Im thinking. If I go carb I can go with way more cam. Im thinking about getting a regulat 650cfm holley carb or a 670cfm street avenger. I want to get a good cam, intake, carb and the world heads. Get it all on the 305 then when income tax time rolls around next year I want to take that money and buy a l98 shortblock and put everything on it. Should be a pretty stout 350 with good compression.

How much you think a TBI setup is worth? I was thinking about throwing my TBI with edelbrock intake and distributer on ebay for about 250$ or something.

brodyscamaro

try to sell it to a jeep guy or something. those offroaders love a non carb system

TBI305Camaro

brodys...arent you running a road demon?