TBI Throttle Body Injection discussion and questions. L03/CFI tech and other performance enhancements.

Ok How can I make this thing quick

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Old 08-10-2002 | 12:27 PM
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Ok How can I make this thing quick

My engine was overhauled at 100k miles I think becuase it seized up. I've got records for a bill that the previous owner gave me that was like 1,200 bucks for parts... So read the sig for my specs. I've added a chip and low temp stat. That made a noticeable difference at highway speeds now and I don't have to worry about that speed governor... Imports are no longer a worry for me now, well not too much. They ALWAYS got me by starting to go at it at 80+mph and I'd stay with them, most of the time ahead and then I'd lose at 110mph.

Anyway, I've been told that this engine has always used Mobil 1 full synthetic oil. I used Castrol 5w30 full syntec my first two oil changes and heard it didn't hold up as well as Mobil one, so the oil change I did yesterday I put in Mobil 1 full synthetic 15w50 with the Stop Restorer crap.. Next oil change I'll buy the Lucas oil stabilizer with M1 15w50 since I've heard Lucas is the only thing worth a damn. I've always used K&N Oil filters also. So since I've owned this car, its been babied.

Look what i've added in my sig pic. This car has come a long way since I bought it when it was bone stock, but it still doesn't seem to be as fast as an 8cyl should be. My dad owned a 93 5.0 Mustang a few years ago and let me tell you, that bitch was QUICK and he didn't do anything to it except regular maintenance. V8 stangs beat me into the ground (I think its revenge for all the sixer ones I beat into the ground.)

What should I do next? Don't even say add a powerdyne or vortech supercharger I wish I had the 3,300 for one Or say buy a new 350 Crate motor from Jegs.. Don't have the 2 grand for that either, I'm still in high school.

I'll consider:
the Edlebrock headers from jegs that are just like the stock ones with AIR hook ups and they include that new y-pipe.

TBI to TPI conversion but I'm scared of the labor costs and future engine problems because the engine is rigged in a way its not supposed to be.

Crane 255 or 260 lift Camshaft. I think i'll go for the 260 lift because my car needs more 1000-5000rpm torque than low end.

Other than what I said above, I dunno what else to do beside totally undo my exhaust setup now and run true duals which would be out of the question for a few years at least.. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Old 08-10-2002 | 01:01 PM
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From: Winfield, IL
Car: 91 RS
Engine: 350tpi comming soon!
Transmission: fixed the 700r4 again!
with a 305 youll find the best gains with headers and cam
Old 08-10-2002 | 03:31 PM
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Yes first look into headers and cams. Then the next power increase areas to look into are heads and intake.
Old 08-11-2002 | 10:58 AM
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heads and intake?? Never heard of 'heads' and I didn't know I could upgrade the intake of a TBI beyond dual snorkel or open air?
Old 08-11-2002 | 11:40 AM
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From: California
Car: 91 Camaro RS Update: Sold Camaro, now own a "91" Corvette.
Engine: Corvette L98 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
"Heads" is the part that the spark plugs go into and the Headers bolt onto. The "Intake Manifold" is what the TB and Air Cleaner assembly mount onto. Here is a picture of the only direct bolt on emisions legal TBI Intake Manifold from Edelbrock.
Attached Thumbnails Ok How can I make this thing quick-edl-3704intakemanifold.jpg  
Old 08-11-2002 | 11:57 AM
  #6  
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Headers, intake, cam, heads, and a lot of traction and also gears. These items can be as cheep or as expensive as u want them to be if your willing to wait and find a good deal and it does not necessary have to be brand new u can get all of these things VERY cheep. headers i picked up some SLP try Y headers with a small hair line crack in one of they y pipes at a junk yard for 50 bucks and 15 to weld it up so that’s 65 bucks for a nice set of headers, intake just look on eBay or the local newspaper for a nice intake, cam u can get very cheep figuring u can get a used one like a lt1 cam and use just about every thing u got now and just swap it in. heads well lets say i had a chance to get some vortecs for 100 bucks too lazy to drive 40 miles to Panama city at short notice. So u do the math and if u are willing to do the modification your self it should have no problem with the budget.
Old 08-11-2002 | 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by Fredless
heads and intake?? Never heard of 'heads' and I didn't know I could upgrade the intake of a TBI beyond dual snorkel or open air?
Cylinder heads. It's where the air/fuel are mixed into the combustion chamber and ignited. The more efficient heads you can install on your car, the more power you will make.

As for the intake, getting a carb intake with EGR and using a TBI to 4bbl adaptor will yield the best results.
Old 08-13-2002 | 09:16 PM
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From: Carlisle, PA
Car: Accepting applications...
headers. open the exhaust, get a set of gears in the back, and spend the $500 for a nitrous kit. lots of fun, that stuff is...
Old 08-16-2002 | 02:32 PM
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Argh... now the car is sluggish at acceleration 1 week after the chip... I think its in dire need of a major tune-up. I'm going to buy a high performance coil, new wires and keep my plugs because they're in good shape... Frustrating of how the previous owner kept this car up...
Old 08-17-2002 | 04:35 AM
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Hang in there. I fought with my car for months after I first bought it. I replaced so much crap I didnt need to. Then one day the fel pump just died. Guess what that was the problem all along. I just graduated high school so Im in your predicament. Im tore between keeping the 88 SC or possibly getting a 94 lt1 6 speed. The lt1 is looking mighty good but then i would have car payments and much higher insurance. So Im not sure whats gonna happen.
Old 08-17-2002 | 08:08 AM
  #11  
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From: Hawaii
Car: 1984 Chevy Camaro
Engine: Built L98
Transmission: T-56 6 speed
Theres a few things about the LO3 that really hold the car back from being a powerful motor. The heads have that "swirlport" bull****, the cam sucks, the exhaust system sucks, etc. Heres my mods...
  • ported throttle body
  • L98 Cam
  • Monte Carlo SS heads
  • 14"x3" K&N open element filter
  • hypertech underdrive pulley
  • air pump deleted
  • Hooker Headers
  • 3" straight exhaust
  • flowmaster muffler
  • Bumped Timing

With those mods to my motor my car ran 14.9@94mph down the 1/4. I forgot to take off my wing and also that was without fully pounding it off hte line. I feathered the gas to much and got a bad launch. Also I was on 87 pump gas. After that my battery went dead and I couldnt race for the rest of the night O_o

According to many horsepower estimaters and the Gtech Pro meter. My car should have about 245-250hp which is a 75-80hp jump over the stock hp. Not so bad considering I got most of hte parts for free or super cheap. Recently I put a hypertech chip, 160 degree thermostat, fan switch, and I cleaned out my motor with this motor clean thing (that really helped) and now my car feels even more powerful.

The Lo3 can be pretty fast if you tune it. And considering the cam is still small and the intake manifold is stock. 245-250hp aint so bad. So if you go and put an aftermarket cam, intake, etc. Then your car should be even more powerful then mines.

One magazine got the LO3 put a aftermarket cam, intake, Corvette heads, headers, exhaust, and roller rockers. And their motor was pushing like 295hp! and was running 14.3! Dont loose hope in the Lo3

Last edited by REVLIMIT; 08-17-2002 at 08:11 AM.
Old 08-17-2002 | 09:28 AM
  #12  
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From: Selinsgrove, Pa, USA
Car: 92 Camaro RS
Engine: 355 94 p/u motor
Transmission: 700R4 With TCI kit
Guys, lets get real.....

This kid is in high school. He didn't even know what heads are. I doubt that he has the money to go around and buy heads(They usually cost over $1000 at a shot). I know that I didn't when I was in high school.

I bet your fuel filter is pretty old, a new one of them might wake that thing up more than you think.

This is what I did to wake up my 305 when I was in high school.
I started in my sophomore year, so it takes time(more money than anything)

Exhaust-
Dynomax makes a 2 1/2in header and y-pipe combination for the camaro for just a little over $200. Then get a high-flow catalytic converter.(the big thing under the passenger's floor) next, get a 2 1/2in. intermediate pipe.(its the pipe that goes from the catalytic converter to the muffler.)about $80
A Flowmaster 80 Series muffer - $80 (This will make the car sound great and give it the extra ummph.
(Make sure you buy these part one by one, but don't put any of them on until you have the whole thing. Exhaust is a PITA, so if you have any buddies who know what they're doing, get them to help you. With headers this should give you around 30horses more.

Then I'ld go with the Edelbrock intake that is pictured above
The exhaust can handle more air now, so you have to let more air into the heads and that's what an intake will do.

Can you, your dad, or anyone you know use a dremel well?
If so, when you first enter this site (on the homepage), there is a menu on the right side of the screen. Instead of clicking on message boards, click on Technical Articles. Scroll down the page and click on the link titled Ultimate TBI, do these mods for free. Then click on the other link Ultimate TBI (2). Then do these mods for free.

Now that all that work is done, its time to look at your ignition system.
Distributor cap(its probably old) sits against the firewall on the back of the intake. 2 screws will remove it from the distributor
Remember to lable the wires when you pull them so you don't get them confused. I use the MSD part #8426.

Also get a new coil. Has one wire on it going to the distributor cap, also at rear of engine, but closer to the throttle body(carbuerator). I use the MSD blaster coil part#8226

These mods should put your stock 305 into the low 14's.

ONE BIG HINT IN GETTING MORE SPEED.......
The more your car weighs, the harder it is for it to move. Get all the high school books and junk out of the car. 200lbs is one tenth of a second at the dragstrip and 3-4mph. Yes, it does make a big difference.

Any questions feel free to email me RSCamaroGuy92@yahoo.com
Old 08-17-2002 | 11:27 AM
  #13  
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Thanks for the help guys.

RSCamaroguy92-I've already spent over 350 dollars on the exhaust setup. 99 on the Dynomax highflow cat, which I put in myself,except I didn't hookup the pipe that leads from the smog pump to the cat. Yes, even bought a sawzall and cut the old one out myself. Clamp didn't seal it 100% so I had a shop weld it.
-Ravin muffler and fat tips, so I can't go 80 series route.

-Fuel filter was replaced about 7,000 miles ago.
-I don't have my books at all, they're in my locker at school.

Thanks for your help guys. I think I will go ahead and get a high performance fuel pump next paycheck, never even thought of that. If that doesn't fix it, then I'll get the MSD stuff.
Old 08-17-2002 | 02:26 PM
  #14  
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From: Barboursville, WV
Youll notice a bigger gain from headers than the catback or high flow cat. Intake and open element helped alot to. Im about to put a cam and heads on my car so ill let you know how that goes.
Old 08-18-2002 | 02:44 PM
  #15  
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Car: 05 GTO, 88 GTA, 98 SS
You're going to spend a ton of money getting a new fuel pump installed
Old 08-19-2002 | 03:07 AM
  #16  
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From: Davison / Troy ,Michigan
Car: 1991 Pontiac Firebird
Engine: 3.8
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: Dana 60
Hey, if I was you I wouldn't try and dump a crap load of money into heads and programming for that engine but I did make a site for people who are starting out who want their 305 TBI's to be a lot faster. It has part numbers, pictures, descriptions, do's and don'ts and installation instructions. Everyone that has used it said they really liked it. I keep it updated as much as possible. Anyways, check it out, might help point you in the right direction.
Its the second website in my signature.
Old 03-11-2003 | 11:05 PM
  #17  
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From: Wharton, Tx
Hey, 91bird305. Just checked out your mods page. Wanted to let you know that I thought it was great. I have been modding cars for twenty years now. Wish I had something like that when I first started. I even found a couple of things I didn't know. I was planning on buying a posi from summit, but I'm gonna hane to go with the slp one now. That's cheap! I don't really know alot about the 305 in my 91RS, but have been checking out some free mods on this site, and it's already running better. When I bought it ( $1,200) it would even bark the tires from a standstill. Now, I may have to change those rear tires to larger one. You said you have 255/50/16's on your TA? Do they rub at all? I have those on my 99Z28 ( dunlops sp5000) and are happy with the street perf of them. Hmm..wonder if the rims/tires from the 99 will fit on the 91? Looks like I'll be doing some tire swapping this weekend! Ha-Ha.
Anyway, again, great info for beginners, so all you newcommers to the wonderfull wold of modification, check it out!
Kevin
Old 03-11-2003 | 11:16 PM
  #18  
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From: CC, TX
Car: 1999 Yamaha Banshee
Engine: 379cc twin cyl 2-stroke stroker
Transmission: 6 spd manual
Axle/Gears: 14/41 tooth
Originally posted by iroc22
Cylinder heads. It's where the air/fuel are mixed into the combustion chamber and ignited. The more efficient heads you can install on your car, the more power you will make.

As for the intake, getting a carb intake with EGR and using a TBI to 4bbl adaptor will yield the best results.
true dat
Old 03-12-2003 | 02:42 AM
  #19  
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From: Blacksburg, VA
Car: '92 Rally Sport
Engine: LO3
Transmission: 700R4
Originally posted by Fredless
Argh... now the car is sluggish at acceleration 1 week after the chip... I think its in dire need of a major tune-up. I'm going to buy a high performance coil, new wires and keep my plugs because they're in good shape... Frustrating of how the previous owner kept this car up...
Even if your plugs *LOOK* okay it doesn't mean that they are. Last summer I spent the better part of 2 months and countless hours on here bugging members and moderators alike trying to track down why my car was running so bad. I replaced the CTS, ignition module, O2 sensor, plug wires, cap, rotor, and coutless other things trying to figure it out. After all that I finally broke down and bought another set of plugs (I had only replaced them a month before my problems started and had thus ruled them out of the picture). And guess what??? It turned out to be the plugs!!! I found out later that even if they are clean they can develop micro-fractures in the ceramic that causes them to arc and misfire like crazy. Unless you are SURE its not the plugs... you might want to give them another look.

Later,
Harry
Old 03-12-2003 | 12:49 PM
  #20  
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Damn lol.. I posted this topic a long time ago. I have a massive misfire, but I think its because the distributor plate got bent while attempting the swap to the ****ty holley 300-66 manifold.

I've kind of accepted what my LO3 is now.

Thanks though.
Old 03-12-2003 | 03:25 PM
  #21  
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From: waukesha,WI
Car: Black 89 Formula
Engine: ??????????
Transmission: ??????????
Re: Ok How can I make this thing quick

Originally posted by Fredless
My engine was overhauled at 100k miles I think becuase it seized up. I've got records for a bill that the previous owner gave me that was like 1,200 bucks for parts... So read the sig for my specs. I've added a chip and low temp stat. That made a noticeable difference at highway speeds now and I don't have to worry about that speed governor... Imports are no longer a worry for me now, well not too much. They ALWAYS got me by starting to go at it at 80+mph and I'd stay with them, most of the time ahead and then I'd lose at 110mph.

Anyway, I've been told that this engine has always used Mobil 1 full synthetic oil. I used Castrol 5w30 full syntec my first two oil changes and heard it didn't hold up as well as Mobil one, so the oil change I did yesterday I put in Mobil 1 full synthetic 15w50 with the Stop Restorer crap.. Next oil change I'll buy the Lucas oil stabilizer with M1 15w50 since I've heard Lucas is the only thing worth a damn. I've always used K&N Oil filters also. So since I've owned this car, its been babied.

Look what i've added in my sig pic. This car has come a long way since I bought it when it was bone stock, but it still doesn't seem to be as fast as an 8cyl should be. My dad owned a 93 5.0 Mustang a few years ago and let me tell you, that bitch was QUICK and he didn't do anything to it except regular maintenance. V8 stangs beat me into the ground (I think its revenge for all the sixer ones I beat into the ground.)

What should I do next? Don't even say add a powerdyne or vortech supercharger I wish I had the 3,300 for one Or say buy a new 350 Crate motor from Jegs.. Don't have the 2 grand for that either, I'm still in high school.

I'll consider:
the Edlebrock headers from jegs that are just like the stock ones with AIR hook ups and they include that new y-pipe.

TBI to TPI conversion but I'm scared of the labor costs and future engine problems because the engine is rigged in a way its not supposed to be.

Crane 255 or 260 lift Camshaft. I think i'll go for the 260 lift because my car needs more 1000-5000rpm torque than low end.

Other than what I said above, I dunno what else to do beside totally undo my exhaust setup now and run true duals which would be out of the question for a few years at least.. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


I think that there engines pistons are bigger than our 305 thats why there 302 beat 305.Also arent are engines low out put.
Old 03-12-2003 | 04:17 PM
  #22  
1MEAN92RS's Avatar
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 731
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From: Blacksburg, VA
Car: '92 Rally Sport
Engine: LO3
Transmission: 700R4
Re: Re: Ok How can I make this thing quick

Originally posted by tbfirebird
I think that there engines pistons are bigger than our 305 thats why there 302 beat 305.Also arent are engines low out put.
Yes, both the ford 302 and the chevy 302 have a larger cylinder bore than the 305... but valve shrouding is only part of the equation. A lot of what holds the 305 back is the stock heads, cam, exhaust, and intake. (all of which were better on the TPI cars)
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