STUB25

Right now I have my stock LO3 and would like to keep the TBI and fuel injection. Heres my problems/ questions.
#1)What year heads can I use with my accessories for proper mounting and to retain all the orignal a/c ect...?
#2)Can I use Dart Iron Eagle heads, 64cc, 215cc,2.08/1.66 i/e?
#3)Wiring, any type of info.
#4) How to make the TBI flow enough fuel for the high RPM 327(350 injectors, or???)

D

Tas

327, vortec heads, edelbrock victor intake would be smokin'

STUB25

Dart Iron egale will give you "about" the same power but for a third of the price. Vortec's are way over rated!!

Tas, you said before that I could continue with my TBi, how do i make it flow enough? And is the Victor Jr intake adaptable to the TBI?

Tas

Vortecs are $420. Where are those $140 Dart iron eagles so I can get a truckload of them?

you can get a carb intake adapter for your TBI for $12.
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=99767

STUB25

yea where can I get a $140 set of iron eagles. Iron eagles are $400/ea. And i am assumming that the Vortecs are $420/ea(bare/complete?) would they work on say a 68' 327? Also Tas how would I get my TBI to flow enough fuel for the 327?

STUB25

Tas: Also where am I finding these Vortec's that are $420/ea. I just looked in Jegs and Summit and they are $590/ea and those are the 23 degree fast burn heads. What's the part number or where did you get that price?

Thanks

D

Tas

http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...id=277&pid=140
These are a bit more than $420 for a pair but still in the neighborhood.

STUB25

WOW $480 for the pair, not bad at all. do you recomend these over the dart Iroc eagles? The eagles are 215cc,2.08/1.66 i/e with 64cc. I am running 11:1 Ross pistons and hopefully 2 stage NOS as well. I don't think the 1.94/1.50 will be enough volume to feed the motor. i will be milling the heads down to about 62cc to get the correct 11:1 comperssion ratio with some thin metal racing head gaskets

iroc22

I recommend them and also just because the Iron Eagle's have bigger valves and bigger runners doesnt mean they will make more power. It's all about efficiency with heads, not size.

Tas

I don't know enough to say which one is better and all that jazz, I'm just letting you know what's out there.

STUB25

iroc22 and Tas you have both given me some great tips and I thank you very much!!!:hail:

Basett_Racing

Huh, what a coincidence, I came to this forum to ask a few questions about a 327! Anyway, Here's what I have: I've got a freshly built 327 shortblock with new .030 over TRW forged flat-top pistons (9.4 : 1 with 64cc heads), stock rods w/ ARP bolts, Clevite bearings, melling oil pump, and speed pro rings. I actually built it for a friend's 67 Chevelle, but he sold the chevelle, and I traded him a set of 91-92 Z28 wheels and tires and cd player I had about $100 in, so I did good. I plan on using a set of pocket ported, and port matched #041 69' Corvette heads (300 factory HP 350 heads) with Manley stainless 1.94, 1.60 valves, and K-Motion K-700 110# stock dia springs. The heads are cut .020 and the combustion chambers cc'd 62cc, making my CR around 9.6: 1 --and they DO have accessory holes, BTW. The heads, also, were intended for another project , but I sold it!! I am most likely going to run a LT1 cam with Comp retrofit Hyd roller lifters that I am taking out of my 82 Z28. I already have Comp Magnum 1.6 roller tip rockers, a phenolic TB spacer, and a MSD coil on the car. I have an Edelbrock Performer dual plane intake w/ EGR that I am plan on using with an adapter plate. I also have Hedman shorty headers and y pipe that I took off my 82 Z28 a few years ago. I can do this for very little $$$ since I have so much good stuff laying around doing not being used. I love my driving my RS, but after getting out of my 82 Z that runs 11's, into the RS that usually runs 15-ohs (with the occasional 14.9x pass) feels miserably weak. If I were purposely building an engine for the RS, I would have built a 350, but since I ended up with the 327, I might as well put it to use, even though the forged pistons and plasma-moly file-fit rings are a bit overkill for a regularly driven street engine. I only race it maybe twice a year, but I would like for it to perform similar to a 4th gen because they are fun to drive.

--Anyway-- My questions,

What injectors should I run. A .030" 327 comes out be almost 332 cu in, so I wasn't sure if the 305 injectors would be too lean, or if the 350 injectors would be too rich. My 305 seems to be on the rich side, but I'm dumb to EFI, so I don't know how it will respond to the 27 cu in difference!! I just know I love the mileage and throttle response, and I am not putting a carb on it. I also know that to get optimum performance out the car, I would need a custom burned chip, but how will the Hypertech I have now run with the extra cu in?? -- meaning should the car idle as smoothly as it does now, and will the extra cu in cause hesitation, stumbling, etc. with the stock chip. I don't want the car to run better only at WOT, but to run terrible in traffic, or on the highway which is what 90% the car's use will be. I have a racecar, I want this car to be as streetable as is now. The air works great, the cruise works, it is a nice car, and I want it stay that way. Thanks in advance to any help/advice!

Tas

your engine sounds mismatched. 327s like to rev and breathe. Is it a small journal crank or large journal? auto or stick?

Basett_Racing

It is a small journal, and the car has a 700R4. But by what means would it be mismatched?? First of all, as far as breathing goes, the heads are some of the best flowing factory cast iron heads GM ever made, in stock form they max out at 218cfm on the intake, and 137cfm on the exhaust. In comparison, the revered Vortec in stock form, flows 239cfm intake, and 147cfm exhaust, so with the bowl job and being port-matched, the #041's I have probably flow better, but at least as good as the Vortecs do. The #041 was based off of a "double hump" head, and the 2.02 versions were even used on DZ 302's, (check Mortec.com if you don't believe that) 3947041 is the full casting number. Now, you said "327's like to rev", and you're correct, but MOST 327's built in 60's were not high winding, high performance engines. The L79's, the 375HP Corvette versions most definetly were, but many, many more were either 2 barrel engines or 300HP, flat-top 4 barrel versions with 1.94 valved double hump heads, a cast iron intake, a Q-jet carb, and had a very small, .390" int, .410" exh, 195* dur int, 202* dur. exh hyd cam, that was dead in the water much above 4500 RPM. The L-79's and especially the solid lifter cammed, 2.02 headed 11:1 327's in the 60's were very strong, high winding engines, but they didn't have enough low end torque to pull the skin off a grape!! That is not what I want, I'm building an engine similar to the old 300HP 327, but with a more powerful hyd roller cam, and fuel injection. This is a great engine combo, and if I were putting a carb on it, I would not be asking any questions, but I the EFI/computer stuff is what I don't know about. I'm not trying be an A$$, I'm just simply saying that just because it is a 327, it doesn't have to be a 7000RPM+ engine to perform well. Ask anyone who has owned a 65-68 Chevelle or Nova that had a 300HP 327, they run really well. So like I said before, what I need help with is the injectors, and I'm wondering how the stock chip will act. I know Duke used to have a TBI 327, is he still around or does anyone know what he was running?? Thanks again for any help.

kevm14

Hey Basset guy...
What did you do to your RSs TBI to get 92MPH out of it? Surely the fuel pressure isn't stock...don't those run like 86mph with the 700R4 stock? That's quite an improvement.

I would say try to find yourself a pair of the injectors that I've got on my car. That is to say, 68 lb/hr. My car was rated at 205hp stock, with those injectors. Surely you're looking for more than that from your 327 so I'd say get some of my injectors and install a vAFPR (vacuum-controlled adjustable fuel pressure regulator) to assist in attaining drivability, mileage and WOT performance. My goal with my L05 is 180rwhp stock cam/stock heads and 200rwhp with the 96 Camaro Z28 cam that I have kicking around...so getting TBI to perform with a higher potential engine interests me, also.

Basett_Racing

These are the mods I have done to the car.
Engine: Comp 1.6 Magnum roller tip rockers, 1/2" phenolic spacer, ultimate TBI mods, Hedman headers and y-pipe, removed the cat, Dynomax Super-Turbo muffler, K&N open element Filter,160 stat, MSD coil , Hypertech Thermomaster chip--

Trans:700R4 Corvette Servo

Rearend: 7.5 GM 3.42 w/ posi-lock

That run was on 26 X 10 ET streets running 26# air pressure.
The car has only run a 14.90 once. It was in Jan. on an almost "perfect" day, it was cold, and the humidity was low. It usually runs 15.00's - 15.10's @ between 90 - 91 MPH. My car ran well stock though, or from what I heard, faster than average. I got it to a 15.69 at like 87 or 88mph right after I first bought it in 2000. Oh, and I almost forgot, I bumped the timing up to 6 degrees, but I have toi always run 92 octane gas. It has actually been a quite a while since I done anything performance-wise to the car. For the last year I have been upgrading the suspension, put on a set of 17" wheels, and an ASCD SS hood. I put WS6 36mm front/ 24mm rear swaybars w/ poly mounts and endlinks, a wonderbar, Hotchkis lowering springs, Bilstein shocks, tubular LCA's and Panhard bar, and LCA relocation brackets, so the car is probably slower on the strip now, because the 14.91 was with the stock "RS" suspension package. But thanks for the help with the injectors. I know with the 327 will run well if I can get the injectors/chip matched up well. The 327 has the advantage of a 4" bore, and even though it is not a lot bigger than a 305, it breathes much better, and the heads I have are much better than any production 305 head or L98 head for that matter. They flow almost identical to the LT1 head on the intake in stock form, and mine have the bowls blended, the short-side radius have been massaged a little, and they are port-matched to a Fel-Pro 1204 intake gasket. I can't wait to see how performs. Thanks again.

DM91RS

[[/QUOTE] I'm not trying be an A$$, I'm just simply saying that just because it is a 327, it doesn't have to be a 7000RPM+ engine to perform well. Ask anyone who has owned a 65-68 Chevelle or Nova that had a 300HP 327, they run really well. So like I said before, what I need help with is the injectors, and I'm wondering how the stock chip will act. I know Duke used to have a TBI 327, is he still around or does anyone know what he was running?? Thanks again for any help. [/QUOTE]

You're not an a$$..........the first car that I owned was a 300 horse 327 1963 Impalla. And yes it ran very well. I wished that I still had that car if only for the engine. I also wished that I could get all the young ***** that I was getting in it then too!!!! LOL

Duke had the Edelbrock tbi intake, ported 305 TPI heads, LT1 roller cam, stock size throttle body unit with 55lb. injectors and he was running on the stock chip I beleive. I don't have my files with me to check.

iroc22

Ok if the 041's flow the same as the Vortec head ported, then wouldnt the Vortec head be better ported? And the 492's (erroneously dubbed 'Turbo head') was the head used on the 302DZ's.


My Dad had a L79 67 Nova (dealer installed) with a Saginaw 4-speed and it ran a best of 13.3 stock without revving past 6300rpm. Our (sold) 65 Vette also with a L79 M21, didnt rev past 6300 either. So they aren't huge revving engines.

Basett_Racing

Absolutely. The Vortec head ported would be a better flowing head, plus it has a better, more efficient combustion chamber. I was not saying #041's were better, I was saying that the #041 is a decent head, using the Vortec as a comparison. The only advantage the #041 head has over the Vortec is that it is a thicker casting. But the the Vortec is the better head for making power, and as you probably know, it was the best flowing, production cast iron head ever made. Now as far the the #292 head, it was an over the counter angle plug version of the double-hump head, it never came on ANY production engine. In 67' and some 68's the DZ 302 was a small journal engine, and had no accessory holes in the heads. They came with #291's, #462's. '68 was the changeover year, and from what I've read over the years, some 68's had small journals, some had large journals. There has been controversy over that for years, especially by people whom have restored the cars, and know the car's history. But in '69 they were all large journal engines, and came with heads that had accessory holes. These engines had #186's, #041's, #492's but no #292's. These heads for the most part are all pretty similiar, but the later models have been shown to flow a little better in most cases dues a slightly larger intake runner. The later versions in most cases also have the valve stem boss machined from the botton side of the head making them flow a little better, as where every #461, #462, #291 I have ever seen are left "as cast" I have a set of #462's and #461's along with the #041's in the shop right now.


True, the L79 wasn't as high of a revving engine as the solid lifter versions, as I said before, but the cam had enough duration for GM to deem it necessary to only sell the L79's with a standard transmission. GM felt the cam was a little too aggresive to work well with a stock convertor because it lacked the low end grunt, and had a decently lopey idle. They were (and still are) a great cam though. Go to my web page and look under "Friend's Rides", and you'll see a "76 full size P/U that runs 13.80's on street tires and he drives it every day. He does have a 2500 convertor though. But again you are arguing the same point I was; 327's don't have to be turned to the moon to make good power. They do make a great high revving engine, as does a 302, but I don't want nor need that. I am simply changing the engine in my car because I want more performance out of it. I already have the stuff in my shop (bought and paid for) and it won't a cost a lot, and the car will be much more fun to drive.


DM91RS, thanks for the info!

STUB25

Here is a link that Tas gave me. I think what would be best to do but harder as far as wiring is concerned, get this manifold and drill a hole right in the intake port before it reaches the heads and put in some injectors. This would allow for a even quicker throttle respone. You will need a aftermarket look-a-like carb and also are going to have to burn your own ECM and also correct the wiring. I think what i am going to use is the maifold with the adapter, 350 TBI injectors with the ultimate TBI mods done to the 350 injectors and that should take care of the 327 well into the 7000rpms. Another thing that you have to realize is that when/if you get a custom prom or make your own. You can also allow the TBI to flow a little more by tweaking the fuel managment system in your custom prom. In esscience allowing the TBI to flow to a higher fuel pressure?? At any point keep everyone posted as to what your next step is and i'll due the same!!
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLi.../AMSM/7547.html

iroc22

I meant to say the 'L76' (Carbed version of the L84, you probably already knew that) was in the 65 Vette and it didnt rev past 6300. It did scream up top, but the lack of total redline was probably due to the stock coil and crappy points system (car was bone stock)

My experience with the 302DZ's, I've only found the '492' straight plug heads on them. Im not doubting you, I've just never come across another head installed on one.

RSFreak

The 327 has a 4" bore, right? Wouldn't a 350 head be a better choice?

I have a '68 327 in my garage right now that I have been thinking about dropping in the RS. It ran perfectly but the vehicle it is in has been in storage since '87. What should I do before attempting to start it because it has been sitting for so long? I don't know what it was originally in, but the casting numbers on the heads indicate '68 327 heads. It has the factory rams horn style (Corvette?) exhaust manifolds.

STUB25

yes iroc22 the L76 with the stock points and coil is no good after 6300rpms, but since I would be the best to say if you due put a set of points and a coil it will go all the way to 7500rpm. and why do you ask how I know this. Because my father has a 65 stingray with the L69 327 and a 4spd. He let me take it to my junior prom a couple of years ago in HS. I had it doing 153mph and it sounded like I was in a wind tunnel and everything was going to fall apart!! It hauls a$$ all the way until you get to the point where it runs itself out of gas and just bobs a WOT!! These engines are amazing you couldn't blow one up unless your a complete moron

Basett_Racing

In '69 the #492's were the most common heads, and there were more 69 Z28's made than 68's and especially 67's, so that's probably why you've seen more 492's. They were all very comparable, and were all decent heads. The good thing about the #041 head is that a lot of people mistake them for an #882 or a #624 smog head. They have a triangle casting mark on the front of the head, but it faces to the right as where the others face to the left. I have found 3 sets of these over the years in junkyards (including the ones I have now) and I bought all of them cheap, because the guys at the junkyard didn't know they were Hi Po heads. If I have took double humps off something and tried to buy them they would have tried to charge $250-$300 because most everyone knows what they are.

Yes, it would, but I have a freshly built 327 that I aquired in a trade, so I am going to use it. I would have built a 350 for my RS if I were purposely building it for my car, but I built it for a friend, and he sold the car he was going to pout it in, so I traded him out of it. It's got a lot of good stuff in it, and I got it for around $200 worth of stuff.

snflupigus

i plan on building a high revving 327 for my 92 rs using the 307's crank from my 69 as soon as my newly built 355 goes into the 69.

I love mortec.

Anyway, with a 327, i personally would put the performer rpm on, but then again you want a daily driver... so you are good. So far the engine sounds perfect. For 300 horse, Get 55 or 65 lb per hours and then you can GET BY with a stock chip by tuning with fuel pressure.

YOU WILL DEFINATELY HAVE SOME BAD LAG AND SPUTTER at certain rpms without a custome chip. The cost of doing your own chips is about equal to buying a brand new high perf carb. But will many more daily driving benifits, even though it will take longer to tune to get perfect. again, it will be worth it, and everybody on these boards will help you get it right, as fast as possible.

I say read up on efi, put it in the car, start tuning, and then love and brag about what you just did to EVERYONE.

by the way, there sure is a buch of BS and worthless arguementitve fill in this thread....

iroc22

Ok which 327 did you mean? L69 is the 305 HO

STUB25

That's a L79

iroc22

No problem, I did the same thing:sillylol:

Duke

I'm back

Yes I did have a 327 with TBI. It went through a few head and intake changes. It originally had a set of TPI 305 heads, I replaced these with a set of the aluminum 350 TPI heads the vettes had, those heads were fully ported and had larger valves, but it's been so long I don't remember what size they were. The last set of heads I had were a set of Fast Burn heads, I don't think I ever got to the track with those heads on.

Intakes. The first intake I had was the TBI one that L03's came with. It sucked. I replaced it with a Torker 2 (made a custom adapter plate) and gained a good amount of power. I put the Torker 2 on the same time as the 350 TPI heads. I kept that setup for only a few weeks then got the Fast Burn heads. I used the Torker 2 on those for awhile then got an Edelbrock TBI intake, but I don't actually remember if I had that on the 327 or on the 305 that I used to replace the 327 with when it kerploded. Whatever setup I had last on the 327 got me a decent 13.98 1/4 mile ET, with a high 104 MPH trap speed. I later put the stock TBI intake back on with an underside NOS fogger setup running a 200 shot and using a Holley 670 CFM TB. Blew the engine when a fuel pump quit on me, should have wired in the safty switch

The stock TB unit had all the free stuff done to it and an adjustable regulator. I don't remember what size injectors I was using, they came off a 454 truck TB.

As for cams I think I had a LT1 cam, I don't actually remember.

I had a custom chip, I programmed it myself.

I think that's it.

BTW here's my car's 4th engine
http://theduke.cz28.com/photo2.html

Joe

DM91RS

Duke
Member
Posts: 201
From: New Boston, MI
Registered: Jan 2000
posted October 07, 2001 09:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven't seen anyone ru in the 13's yet with a 305 TBI, and if anyone has, please post your exact times and your mods. I'm actually done working on my L03, It's hit a 14.5@98 MPH, but it cost me enough money to make a 350 run 12's. Here's what it took me to do that:
LT-1 cam, ported and polished TPI heads (305 TPI heads), SLP 1 5/8" headers, all the TBI mods I could do, including 350 injectors and a AFPR, Edelbrock Performer TBI intake, MSD 6-AL, MSD Blaster GM coil, 12 degrees of base timing but only with 101 octane Turbo Blue, open element with flat base and no spacer ring, Nitto 275/50/15 DR's, 3.08 posi, Lake Wood LCA's, Edelbrock panhard rod, Lake Wood 50/50 drag shocks in the rear, 3" exhaust with no cat, Flowmaster (hey, it was cheap and it sounds nice), B&M Ripper shifter, Zoom Performance clutch, and I think I listed everything.
With all those mods, the damn thing should run 13's !

Duke

Yea, that was my 305, it replaced the 327 after it blew up. I had to use 305 TPI heads on the 305 because the valves on the other heads were too big. I had to use a different TBI unit on the 305 then on the 327, I think it was running rich with the 454 injectors or something.

Anyway, yup.


Joe