Jon92TA

I know I need a new one, but is there any danger ? I got movement of about 1/2" up an down where the center link, tie rod and idler arm come together that I can do by hand. I can also see movement at the base of the idler arm where it pivots, It seems to be bolted on tight up front. Do I need to replace it right away ? What do you think ?

turningfast

Are you sure e idler arm is bad? my 150,000 mile 85's is stock and has no play. If your talking side to side movement between the centerlink and idler arm, the centerlink is beat. The idler arms are generally nonwear Items if they are lubed when they are supposed to.
Put the car on stands, with them as close to the ball joint as possible. Grasp the tires at 3&9 o'clock and move them back and forth, as if turning them left and right. watch the steering linkage and you will be able to see exactly where the wear is, weather it rod ends or center links( you will see the center link move a lot while the idler and pitman arms move very little, same with the outers and inners). You can also do this at 12&6 o'clock to check the ball joints and wheel bearings.
My centerlink was so whooped that it moved almost a full two inches back and forth.
Good luck

82camaro

Idler arms are a common thirdgen replacement item. You should only have a very, very small movement up and down. 1/2 inch of movement from the idler is too much. It's far from a non-wear item. As far as danger, it's probably not going to just break and fall apart. It will make the steering loose and cause a toe problem with the alignment(hurting the tires).

turningfast

He did not say the idler arm moved up and down, the center link did He did say there was a little play, though).An idler arm would cause no problem with the toe, that would be rod ends (inner or outer) or a bad alignment. The idler arm is just there to hold the centerlink parallel to the ground. It does not carry any significant load, like th pitman arm (which turns the wheel). The center link has little ball joints, that have studs, which bolt to the idler and pitman arms. This is where your noticable slop is located. Do the test (shake some wheels), and when you see the centerlink is bad, replace it (look at the tie rod ends too, but they will not causeup and downmovement) then see if it moves up and down. Experienced part guys laugh at people (silently) when they order pitmn arms and idler arms when they are nonwear items.
Non wear items are the things that do not see loading at a joint. Such as the pitman arm on our cars. Where it is attachedthe ball joint stud goes through it(the same with the idler, but the idler can go bad if it is abused and never lubed.) the center link and tie rod ends are generally the only parts that shold wear out in the steering system.

Jon92TA

Ok This weekend I'm going to give it a more thorough check as stated above. To clarify, the up / down play, with the car on stands, I'm underneath, I can put my hand where the center link and tie rod join, (idler arm connects a few inches to the side) I can push strait up about a 1/2" or so. The idler arm feels tight where it connects to the center link, but I see that it rocks where it pivots at the frame when I move the center link up & down. Pulling side to side on the center link and tie rod seems pretty tight.

82camaro

Must not work on many third gens huh. Idler arm is a wear item and has some stress on it. Yes it will affect toe, any alignment person will tell you that. The toe will go in and out as the centerlink moves up and down(from worn idler arm). The pitman arm IS a no wear item because it has no joints on it--just a metal bar. The idler arm has 2 joints that can and do wear out. The centerlink has one wear joint, at the pitman arm connection. Experience 'people' laugh when someone says the idler arm is a non wear item and doesn't hurt the alignment.

Back to your question, yes that is a worn idler arm. That is usually the joint that wears out on the idler arm. Like I said before, it's not going to probably break. However, it will cause some toe alignment problems and steering looseness. It's a common replacement part(usually more common than tie-rods) Hope this helps, just ignore turningfast--not sure what he is talking about.

turningfast

Actually I have worked on several and have owned two in the past 6 years (before you say I haven't worked on them much, go to a parts counter and ask for a centerlink and count the joints in it. One you say? haha), and never encountered a bad idler arm, or one that had the ball joint in it that mounts to the center link. All of them I have seen have had one joint, where it pivots from side to side, the joint that goes through it is actually a ball joint in the center link, which by the way have both joints for idler and pitman arm, not just one as you stated. Go ask for one at a parts counter and look at it, as well as an idler arm so you can see it has one pivot point. Also it's called an idler arm for a reason, same as an idler pully, or idler gear, it doesn't do much but hold the centerlink up.

82camaro

You got me on the idler arm joint's. It's been a few years since I've did front end work for a living. But I know they are a wear item(when you said no-wear that shocked me a bit). I know they screw with the alignment--I used to show customers how the alignment would go out of spec if you moved the centerlink up and down, if they didn't think they needed one. I would hate to count the amount of idler arms I've replaced on GM vehicles back when I was doing front end work. A large percentage were G bodies, S10's and thirdgens. And then some of the lovely Astro/Safari van dual idler arm steering suspension.

mrr23

idler arm has one wear point on it. the center link has two. in reading jon92ta original post he states " i can also see movement at the base of the idler arm where it pivots,". so the up/down movement he is refering to is the idler arm slop moving the centerlink up and down. do you need to replace it right away? well it's been this loose for awhile now. but replace is as soon as you can.

turningfast

By nonwear item, i meant it has no ball joint in it, and should not wear if taken care of (lubed every or every other oil change). Like the s10's, astros blazers and trucks have the pitman and idler arm (or two with a drag link) that have ball joints and are considered wear items. They have a nonwear centerlink. Sorry if that terminology threw you off. I also see what you are saying about the alignment. I was thinking side to side movement that would cause wandering or a shimmy, not up and down which would change toe one that side mostly from moving the tie rod up and down.

j166a99

i just replaced my front end with parts from PST. that included inner tie rods, center link, and idler arm.

now its crisp and sharp, definitely a noticeable difference, and not to expensive...

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Idler arms are fairly common if they don't get attention. (grease).
Else they do last a while.

A backyard mechanic may replace one in his lifetime, that doesn't make it uncommon in general, just to that person. I replaced 10 or more of these last year, does that make it a common failure item?

Usually however, when the car is on the lift (or in your case, on jacks) and you jerk the wheel from right to left (steering wheel locked) the idler will "pop" if its bad. making an obvious noise.

I'll be honest with you, this is a safety item. If you're unsure, you should have it checked out at a shop. Most alignment people
do not charge to check this out, and if so, you could prolly get a full safety inspection anyway for under $50.00.

Last summer I was checking out a kids linkage on the lift, using a pry bar like I normally do to check joints. The tie rod snapped.. If that kid was going 80 down the highway when it happened, he'd be dead.. Get it?

-- Joe

Jza

Hell yeah. Don't take chances on steering items. I had a similar experience to the above. It's very sobering to see a piece come apart like that, and then imagine it happening at highway speeds.

Jon92TA

Got it, Wheeewww I do 80 mph daily on my way to work just goin' with the flow! I think I'll order a new idler arm today just to be safe. Carparts.com has a Moog for $57.08 is there a better deal anywhere else ? I'll get it up on stands this weekend and give it a good check as stated above.

89blackbird

Idler arms go bad. It is not safe . Send the money for peace of mind. 1/2" play in any steering parts is too much. Good luck.

Jon92TA

Ok the new Idler arm is in. Got it at AutoZone for $39- Lifetime Warr., maybe not Moog but deffinately more HD that stock. Only took a couple hours and didn't lose any blood. I did get a little worried when putting the nut on to the center link stud, it would just spin the stud, Oh No! so I used a small C clamp to hold the Idler and center link together and it tightened down fine. Wheew. I used a bubble level and a ruler to get the center link level. There was a little swearing when I my socket dropped into the frame access hole though, got it back with the big allen wrench with some duct tape on the end, then lubed everything up real good and cleaned up. I'll sleep a little better knowing that job is done. Thanks for all the help guys !

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Im proud of you.. You tightened the nuts on the frame very very well right??

I'm surprised you got those out on your back.. I usually turn up the PSI on my snapon impact gun for about 2 minutes before they come loose..

Your alignment shouldn't have changed.

-- Joe

Jon92TA

Yeah I got them as tight as my ratchet would allow, something just short of a hernia. I have a slight pull to the right and I'm due for an alignment check anyway, I got a 5 year alignment deal so this weekend I'll recheck those nuts and get it in the shop.