You cannot purchase the RR anymore. For previous purchasers,you'll have to ask Matt on an individual basis to get the upgrade

 

I know that whine I got mine the web sight said for "off road use only" (racing) I also discuses the use of the rack & pinon spinals, and fit issues with wide 15"wheels, and that 18" wheels may fit. so I took a chance on them fitting.
once again the sight said for off road use only.

 

When did you buy them?

 

I don't have the receipts readily accessible, so I will go with the next best thing, when they appeared in my photos.
I'm thinking I got them in May of 2011.

 

Mine where purchased in 2008. 1 week after they came out, at that time there was no other options, this spindle as was mentioned in the previous post where the only ones Racecraft sold, Mark advertised and sold them for street cars.

My biggest complaint is not that they had problems with them, S**T happens, my problem is why not tell me, so I can have them fixed instead of coming out with the statement " drag race only, not for street use" when that is what they were sold as.

I would rather have the car down for a couple weeks, getting them fixed, than using them and getting killed. I love my car but I don't want to die for it. By the way I have them off the car now, and I am deciding what I am going to do with them

 

Yes, they make good parts (xpt for OP's), but communication is lacking.

 

I talked to Matt about returning the spindles to them for repair, but I decided to take them to the shop that did my backhalf, they are NHRA certified, and I know that Troy will do a better job repairing them, then sending them back.

 

Does anyone have close up pics and/or drawings of what needs to be done to make the spindles solid for auto-x etc.? What material? Where? etc.

 

The only proper thing that could be tried is somehow make a rear rack&pinion setup and flip the spindle steering arms to come off the rear rather than the front. The rack would have to try and go when the left header crossover pipe goes through the kmember and oilpan. There really is alot of issues hence why Gm made this car a front arm steering car and thus an inherent defect in design when it comes to ackerman- it is really not correctable so I would recommend just living with it unless you have major fabricating skills.

 

Rear steer rack has drawbacks, biggest is busging deflection translates into icreased steering output vs steering wheel position...so oversteer.

Not for nothing that most anything performance orientated has front steer end take off nowadays.

Front steer and proper ackerman results in serioys neg offset wheels like c4 up vettes, otherwise the steering arm can not be brought outboard (or use large wheels to clear)


Don't see how rear steer fixes a badly welded spindle, surely the full lock ackerman issues are not the main problem here

 

My bad, sorry. when I reread what base91 asked, I did not see where he said "the spindles" meaning these racecraft units. I thought he asked about making new spindles in general so I was addressing the problems with ackerman.

No reason to debate anything else you stated- lets just say that Gm learned alot about the rear C4 toe link bushings

 

The ackerman could be fixed with something like the guldstrand bumpsteer blocks for c2/3 vettes to bring the tie rod end further outboard.

Never did trace/string the ackerman angle in my car, may be a neat thing to do (have one on 2 post) to see how far it's off

 

Twin,

I'm glad you mentioned those blocks. I have never seen those before. I bet we could figure out something like that for our spindles. Perhaps its time to start a thread on that subject.

John

 

I have them on mine. It made the tierod length better match the A-arm length as well. I actually though of using those to reverse the effect of the c3 onto the front of the 3rd gen, but there is no room with the IROC wheels I had as well as drilling a second hole into the spindle arms with little meat there scared me to even think about it. I was always told not to weld on cast metal, and at that time my welding skills were also not what they are today.

 

I did something similar on my race car corvette build, I converted it to home brew suspension and end take off front steer, flipping spindles and adding blocks for ackerman angle. These are the gs blocks for those who have never seen them. (Corvettes have 2 steering holes in spindle for manual and power setups)

 

If that is front steer, I do not understand why you would not try and flip them outward to gain ackerman angle. You are decressing the effect with it like that because you are placing the tierod end inside the balljoint further. you are also shortening your tierod arm where the longer would probably favor geometry of the front swing pitman & idler- unless you are running a rack I can not see?

based on your a-arm length, And what rack spread you have, would the tierods be better matched to the geometry arch if you flipped those bumpsteer mounts outward and used longer tierods? you definately would get better ackerman that way, but would you suffer from massive bump is the question

 

C2/3 vettes are rear steer

 

I know that, I have one and used to race it. you stated you did a home brew front steer setup [I did something similar on my race car corvette build, I converted it to home brew suspension and end take off front steer, flipping spindles ]...and then posted that pic. So is it or is it not converted to front steer?

 

You asked if the pic is front steer, it's a c3 so rear steer

That's not my setup, this is
Don't have a pic of my modified spindles

 

Very nice

 

tnx

 

Has RaceCraft examined the spindles? or only seen photos? I don't think I would give them back to RaceCraft, you would probably never see them again.

good welds don't break, the medal around it does.

I was thinking one way to fix this or support the spindle would to put a spine type reinforcement on the hub side.

 

I sent the spindles to Racecraft and after examining them their claim was that it was not a poor weld. I think otherwise.

Also, it's been brought to my attention that Racecraft has told another customer who called in inquiring about the strength because he had seen this forum post, that I later admitted to losing control of my car and hitting a curb and going off track and that was the cause of the failure. That is a flat out lie, and to think that a company would do that regarding a product of theirs that could potentially be responsible for the loss of someone's vehicle and or life is completely mind blowing.

I can understand a company backing their product, but to flat out lie like that is unethical.

 

thats terrible... totally not impressed with them.. they should have a rep come on here and explain this.

 

It's sad that there is a clammed statement by racecraft that is not true!
Did you get your spinal back??
I think our only option is to have NDI ( no destructive inspection) done, I only know that aviation does this.
This will let us know if we have any cracks developing. I think that with this issue and race raft statements we must do this to protect our rides, and others.
And post results, so we can track breakage.

 

Yup, this is further reinforcing that Racecraft is not a company worth doing business with.

 

Well, I received my spindles back from the local shop, Troy did more bracing then the spindles that was shown that came back repaired from Racecraft. Instead of small pieces been welded together around the steering arm, he made a brace out of one piece that he bent, which tied in the strut mount as well. He also welded around the front of the spindle pin itself, so it is welded on the front as well as back ( Racecraft only welds on the back of the spindle). Only thing I did not do was take pictures, will when I get a chance

 

that sounds alot more reinforced ... My question is, why couldn't Racecraft make em' strong like that from the get-go? Even if it weighs the same, atleast it would be 2" lower, but stronger.

 

The basic design is a failure. The spindle pin on the oem spindle is pressed in. It is not attached any other way. Racecraft says theirs are pressed in as well, but the failure looks like a weld failure. If the pressed joint was designed correctly, there would be no load on the welds.

 

Wouldn't load come from ball joint and possibly steering arm flex? That's where all the extra increased support is. If these two attach points flex, that would load the strut attach point.

 

This was clearly an issue with the weld. That entire spindle should have bent before the weld broke.

They have lost my buisness and i will tell everyone i know not to buy these.

 

That is true, but it never should have relied on a weld to begin with. You do not cantilever a weld like that. It is bad design practice. It should be pressed in just like stock.

 

Looking at the pics again it almost looks like the backside of the spindle was fused together? I'm curious if they even bevel the seams before welding to get better penetration. I'd really want to see what there welds look like before being powder coated. I doubt they'd be willing to provide such pictures though. But the bottom line is that the weld cracked, so it obviously wasn't done right. I know I'd get canned if any of my welds failed on any of my work.

 

I've changed my opinion on this. The quality of the weld is not that bad it's just too small for the kind of load being applied.

 

They are pretty but not functional

 

Can you give me some more detail on this comparing pics in post #86-7 to the upgraded Road Race ones in #92-3.
Why is the size of weld so important, and are the road race size adequate?

 

I've always been told that the weld should be a wide as the material is thick- straight from Jesse james mouth (West coast choppers)

 

The RR version seem to be an improvement. But being the spindle is not in a bore and can't be welded all the way around the load will be high. The weld just seems small in comparison to the steel. But I'm no expert and that's jmo.

 

A good rule of thumb is that the weld will only penetrate about as deep as the thickness of the rod that you are using.

 

exactly, and that's why the snout should have been pressed in and if they were hellbent on welding it up, a deep bevel and a multipass weld from the root up would have done a whole lot better than that 1 little made to look good weld. It's just like those chinese stainles headers with their nice colorful rainbow welds over grey dull crappy ones (check those out carefully, you will see oxidized welds everywhere with a final "show" weld over them)

 

TTT
Just in case anyone who has them gets a chance to read this

 

Have to add this in here. Anyone notice that the spindles Tedsgrad got back have had all their welds redone? I worked in Plants testing welds on pipes and having them x-rayed. Never saw any that had a convex finish weld, always multipass and concave with a bevel.

 

I just found this while looking for info on cutting springs. Wow. Yeah, nowhere near enough filler or heat. Look at the HAZ on some of the welds in the posts from Race Craft. With the material thicknesses that we’re dealing with here, it looks waaay too cold for a single pass. For the record, when TIG welding a fillet on ½” thick mild steel, you need:

1) 1/8” – 3/16” Electrode
2) ¼” Filler Rod Diameter
3) 325 – 425 Amps
*The AWS will back this up.
*The material pictured appears to be greater than ½”

Think about this… melting ¼” filler rod… with ~400 amps… will not yield a weld bead that small.

Does Race Craft employ CW’s? If not, doing so might be a good way to mitigate lawsuits.

 

wow this looks really bad. I purchased race craft drop spindles years ago... i dont remember which one exactly anymore and have to dig up the receipt now. I have about 1500 miles on my car and no issues so far with all street driving and we have some nasty roads here on Long Island.

I am booked for a trip to GM nationals in two weeks or so... this is crazy. Now i dont know what to do. Im literally afraid to drive my car... There is no way i can do a complete tear down and rebuild in two weeks to address this

Is there an alternative to these spindles? I have custom brake brackets made up for the wilwood brakes i have and this is a major problem. I guess i too need to take these out and reinforce them?

 

Also, fyi,i dont think racecraft can simply walk away from this problem by saying these are for offroad use only. If someone purchases these spindles and uses them on a vehicle and gets killed driving around the block or anything it can be a fairly easy case to make against racecraft in court.

the loads you are seeing on these spindles "offroad" will be similar if not the same as those on the road in most places with decent roadways that dont have potholes everywhere... I know of many places outside NY where people live with perfectly flat and smooth roads that are the same as driving on a race track. There is no difference driving 55 mph down those roads or driving 130 mph down a race track other than the speed and loads created by that. and if your spindles are actually designed for those high speeds "offroad" then goodluck arguing not using them for 55 mph on road.

Racecraft... you guys should make this right before someone does have a serious problem.

These days I could see anyone with some time and money hire a half decent lawyer and make a case out of this.

 

No use trying to dig up the receipt, they only sold one version, when we all bought them, this road race model I believe is fictional to cover up the problems that they found with these spindles. They were never sold as race only and admitted that when I called to confront them. If you do a search on here you will find the original posts on here. You will have to decided like I did, mine weren't cracked, I had the on the car since they first came out but had only put 1700 miles in 5 years.
But all I could think about is what if I am driving down the highway, had to steer hard to avoid something and the front wheel fell off. If you want to check with these guys that braced mine, they were the same people who did my back half, they are a NHRA certified shop, their name is Sandale 204-661-2111 ask for Dale

 

I believe that to be true as well.
Bad communication, then too costly to achieve objective.

Better bracing and re-welding the entire spindle (RR version) should hold and they have said not one has come back. Well...OK. I have no reason to think the worst of Racecraft - they are not inexperienced. I think the beefed up version is OK. My main problem is COST. To get to this point is: $550 plus shipping, plus alignment, plus more time taking off and sandblasting, plus shipping, plus upgrade cost, plus more time, plus another alignment. Had I known from the beginning, another decision would have been made and allowance for 9.5" wheel up front.
But in the end, I do have what I believe to be a strong RR spindle - and that's not nothing. I believe it (drop spindles) to be the better set-up, but to achieve it, is too costly; and now, this is not an option for others.

 

Where is this shop located? May be a bit far for me