sportcoupe-z28

we just dropped a v8 in a v6 camaro, we switched to v8 springs all the way around. we cut 1/4 coil out of all of them. the rear sits good. but the front is higher than the back by about an inch, and also the passenger side sits about 1/2" higher than the driver side. i dont know why and idk wtf to do? should i cut the remaining 75% of the coil out? im afraid of it being too low if we do that. NEED HELP ASAP

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

Were the springs new or used? If used there you go they are sagging some. If new You may have cut a hair more on one than another. The fronts may need more cut to level with the back. Also are all the rubber isolators still in place?

sportcoupe-z28

they were used out of a 83 z28 donor car(had alot of miles), we cut them all equally. there was no noticable sag when they were on the z28, it actually sat normal (pic below)

when we removed the v6 springs, there wasnt any rubber insolators up front, but there was in the rear.

would removing the remaining 75% of coil make it sit too low? and would it sit right?

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (15)

it may settle a bit if you move it around. The front spring need to be indexed when installed, was that done? that will cause the front to sit high and/or uineven

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Buy new quality lowering springs (eibach pro kit), install, be done.

sportcoupe-z28

idk what indexing even is, im 17 and this is the first time ever doing this stuff. im prob gonna buy rubber isolators and cut coil as i stated above. if its too low i still have v6 springs anyway

camaromike222

Make sure the springs are seated right. There is a chance the springs are catching on what I thinking is a small ledge in the spring pocket. This happened to me when installing springs.

sportcoupe-z28

ok ill find out tomorrow, generallly how much drop would removing 1 coil be?

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (15)

usually too much. Dont cut anymore until everything else is checked out.

in the back of the control arms spring pocket, there are 2 small drain holes punched into the pocket where the spring sits. the end of the spring needs to be about center of the two holes. That will set things where teh factory intended and you will be able to see what the ride height is now that both sides are set the same way. After that, you can trim more if needed. This does involve taking the front end apart a few times, but its good practice.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Has the car been driven/rolled since the swap? After doing a spring swap or even just jacking the car up, like to remove a tire, the a-arms "swing inwards" & will not settle to their correct position until the car has been rolled. I generally drive around the block or at least a bit, but in reality? I bet rolling it 20 feet will accomplish settling the car if it isn't driveable yet.

sportcoupe-z28

we rolled the car outside(about 20ft) and the driver side made a popping sound. but it still sits higher.

and i was wondering about how the bottom of the springs and where it should end. its about 3 inches from where it needs to be at the end of the pocket.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Read post #5 (and check out the pic) in the following post:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...nsion-how.html

JamesC

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

As mentioned, springs settle, and espcially after you've had the car in the air, the front will sit REALLY high until you drive around a little and let the suspension settle back to its usual geometry. 20 feet of moving ita round SHOULD be enough or close to it, but depending on how you worked the steering wheel etc etc it still may not be where it would normally be if drivingi t around.

Some of these cars just sit lower on one side. Mine does and always has, no idea why. Never been in an accident, just had a little 305 TBI in it, never raced, etc etc. Sometimes the springs just settle at different heights. Don't be afraid to swap springs from side to side or to fine tune the trimming.

Lowering springs are always preferable to cutting factory springs because you can get the ride height and ride quality you want at the same time, but I dont think they're the solution necessarily in this case. There's a reason gm had a bazillion different special spring codes for these cars that were "computer selected" (go through your RPO codes on your SPID list if you dont believe me). Every car sits a little different and weighs a little different at all corners. Add in wear and use over the years, and expecting a generic drop-in spring for all V8 F-bodies to make the car sit perfectly level and at exactly the ride height you want is just wishful thinking. If you think for a minute that all these custom car guys dont cut and trim springs to get things just right you're delusional. If you deviate from stock, expect to fine tune it to get it right.

What I would do:

1. Move the car around a little to be sure it's settled down to its actual ride height
2. Make sure the springs are indexed properly. In theory, over time the springs will index themselves, but you should still try to get it close.
3. Switch the front springs side to side and see if that helps or hurts it. If it sat even BEFORE you changed the springs, then I wouldn't worry about the car itself being wrong.
4. Trim the springs to get it even by cutting small increments of spring. Half a coil is usually about .75-1 inch of drop depending on the car. Cut at most 1/8 of a coil at a time until the car sits evenly.


Or you can just blow $200-$800 on lowering springs or Ground Control weight jacks.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (15)

cutting springs is very common and there is nothing wrong with doing so, but you should be aware of the affect it has on the spring rate.

but yes, the more "ideal" was of doing something like this is with an adjustable coilover setup of weight jacks and shorter springs of whatever rate you need for the application.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (15)

You welcome to your opinion, but thats all it is, there is absolustly nothing wrong, hack, ghetto, ect with cutting this type of spring. There are springs types you dont cut, but these are not it. Im not talking torch cutting either, or heating ect, thats a no no. Keeping heat out of the spring is important. (funny though that Herb Adams made a point in one of his books to show you how to cut and reshape springs with a torch)

If you are unsure of what happened to the rate afterwards, use one of the may available spring calculators like this one

http://www.pontiacracing.net/js_coil_spring_rate.htm

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

As long as you dont overheat the metal, there's nothing wrong with it. It's just a steel rod. How do you think it's sized to begin with?

No sense in getting radical drops with factory springs, just too many things that make it not work. Spring rates cant stay balanced all the way around, spring rates get too high and require very strong struts and shocks, and ride quality goes to garbage. Theres a lot of good reasons not to cut springs if you want more than a 1 inch drop. But "safety" and "the proper way to do it" as is often implied, is not one of those good reasons. The good reasons are all more setup related than anything else.

Cutting springs is a real bad idea with coilovers like the import cars have because theres much less spring to begin with. Far fewer coils and cutting out enough coils for a 1-2 inch drop means you have to remove as much as 1/3 of the spring. With our cars the most youd ever want to cut off if you were crazy is around 1/2 to 3/4 of 1 coil, and that's much smaller percentage of the number of coils on the spring, and our springs are MUCH stiffer and heavier and larger. The bad rap from cut springs is from people who do it with torches and people who do with coilovers and people who do it with worn out shocks and struts and get terrible results with performance and ride quality.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

I'm not talking about damaging the spring, i'm talking about the fact that it quickly drives the spring rate up, it also will result in things like this guy is experiencing, uneven ride, then he's being told to make the springs different side to side to change this, to make up for his fatigued worn out springs, which results in a different spring rate side/side, instead of doing it properly and installing weight jacks, you change the preload, but you are still at the same constant spring rate for both sides.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

My car sat uneven with the factory springs. It happens. Guys that buy a generic replacement spring (Moog) never have their cars sit the way they did from the factory. Always seem to sit REAL high. Thats what happens when you exchange a custom selected spring from the factory for a one size fits all parts store shelf spring. You gotta expect to do a little trimming here and there to get things right, and that goes for older springs too. It just isn't that big of a deal. Just because you buy a set doens't mean it's a perfect match for your car. There's a reason GM computer selected springs on every corner for these cars. They all have different corner weights and total weights. To expect a generic one part fits all kit to have the car sit at the perfect ride height and sit perfectly even every time isn't realistic.

I completely agree that spring cutting isn't the ideal route for most people, but I do think for 1 inch or less of drop, it's the perfect solution. More than 1 inch and your spring rates will deviate further and further from a good balance. It just becomes a cosmetic mod and no longer has any performance benefits and will ride like a skateboard.

GC Weight jacks have their own issues, though. They're not some perfect solution.



Of course you can make your own, but it gets really complicated for the fronts. The fronts in the GC kit are fine, but they wont separate and sell you one half the kit normally.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Since the thread has apparently lost its usefulness and since bickering becomes annoying quickly....

JamesC