Project 3.4 Camaro

I'm curious what options are out there for adjustable ride height, so I could have my car ridiculously low for handling, but not scrape during normal road use, speed bumps, etc.
I know about air shocks, and air bags, but I want to know what option won't interfere with handling, or will the least, if any.
I know the veyron has adjustable ride height, and obviously if its on a 250+ mph car it must be stable handling, anyone know what type of system it uses?
Also along the same lines, curious if anyone knows of a drop spindle that goes more than 2"?

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Outside of air bags there is coilovers and weight jacks for adjustable ride height. The main problem with an adjustable ride height is you should technically get an alignment everytime you raise and lower it.

As for spindles, the 2" are the largest drop they make.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Weight jacks have to be manually adjusted.... you can't just press a button inside the car, which is, I think, what you're after. No one wants to get out of the car and turn wrenches for a while in traffic to get over a speed bump.

So you're basically stuck with an Air-Ride system. A lot of guys scoff at them for handling, but they (Air Ride Technologies) seem to be working really hard to show people that their system is a capable setup for road racing/autoX. They had two cars on the Forza Motorsport Showdown on Speed channel, one 69 camaro and a 70 or so Challenger, and both were equipped with Air ride systems. The Camaro actually did reasonably well if I recall, but it had some issues in other areas. But you'd have to find a car with an air ride system and a car with a traditional suspension and compare the handling to really know.

But an Air Ride system will let you raise and lower the car with a button from the driver's seat whenever you feel like it.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/auto...ged-third.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoLEw80uQls

It's not cheap, though.

http://www.ridetech.com/store/muscle...ures_hash=V176

Project 3.4 Camaro

They have a new name now, here is a link to their website:
Figured I would post it to make it easier for someone else to find if they read this thread and have the same goals in mind, I sent them an email requesting some information as to its stability, and how much it can lower and raise the car.
http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspen...d-level-1.html

I'm wanting to say that there are two different air systems, ones that use airbags that get put under or on top of the springs, and ones that are built into shocks, is this correct?
Cause if so, I believe all the times I've heard about compromising stability/handling, were referring to the former setup. Cause I know that some cars have a ride leveling system, for if you have a lot of weight in your car, they have air shocks that will pump up to compensate, so that it still sits level, so I am pretty sure its air bags that are bad, and that air shocks are fine, hopefully they can clear up any doubt or misinformation for me.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

At the level most of us are at about all you can do is make the car go up and down a bit. As for re-adjusting the suspension on the go to compensate it's probably a no-go. I think you have to pick a compromise between best handling and best ride. You may not be totally happy with either. Usually true of compromise. The expensive cars have huge amounts of (expensive) technology that lets them stay 'super' whichever button you pressed.

Project 3.4 Camaro

I only care about performance, could care less about ride comfort, my interior is almost fully gutted, I have a pin on hood, a fuel pump access panel(hole atm cause I haven't bought said panel just yet), truck bed liner for a floor, AC delete etc. I threw out the notion of creature comforts a long time ago, If I wanted a luxury car I would have gotten one.
And I don't really care how it handles when raised either, because it would only be raised for crappy roads(which I wouldn't be driving fast on anyways) and speed bumps. Only reason I don't want to lower it that much without adjustability, is because I want to still be able to take it on the street when the mood takes me.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (15)

if you want to raise the car at the flip of a switch, your only option is air-ride or somthing similar.

as to your question about the air springs, and where they go and the different types, there are bags that replace just the springs, and there are bags that are built into a shock, for cars with coil-over type suspensions. You will be using the stand alone bags in a 3rd gen, since these cars dont use a coil over suspension.

With the bags, you are stuck with whatever rate the air gives you at the height you drive at. Its not a great performing setup. Massive sway bars will help cornering to a point.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Eh...no I won't, for someone with a 408 in his car I would think you wouldn't imply that our cars are limited to stock suspensions....coilovers have been swapped into our cars more than a few times, and I think its safe to assume anyone willing to go to the trouble of adjustable ride height, is willing to go to the trouble to do it the right/best way... as for the air bags replacing springs, I don't think those systems are adjustable for height.
I guess I will have to make a new thread to see if anyone has air shocks and can give me some feedback on how they handle, or search if there is one already.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

You could check into some lowrider stuff. Those guys really make their cars go up and down. Maybe you could set it up the way you want then add some sort of rams or something to force it up a couple of inches. Do you really want on the go press a button or get out and under?

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (15)

unbelievable....

have you even ever looked at the airride stuff? to get an idea what going on here? its seems like you havent.

By air bags, i do not mean the crappy inflatable drag bags (sorry if that got confused) that just stiffen the springs, i mean the air springs that completely replace the springs. Thats what you need, and thats what are ARE stuck with. You cannot retrofit the coilover type bags into a 3rd gen because they;
1. dont exist in a strut application to fit the front of the car, and
2. physically wont fit because they are too large in diameter.

only way to use them would be to redesign the entire cars suspension setup. YOu could graft the front end of a 4th gen onto the front to use their air-ride setup, but as for the rear, thats another story.

you will use shocks and sturts like normal, but the springs will be replaced with the air springs.

Its pretty common knowledge that the air springs are not ideal for a performance application, since they have no rate adjustment without affecting rideheight, and the lower you go, the softer they get. There are a couple people here with them, sickness, kandiedz, a badass white camaro, i forget his user name... you can find a few threads if you search a bit.

Im using "air-ride" just because its the common name, there are a few different companies out there that make these setups

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (15)

hey, how about hydraulics? that could work i guess...

89_RS

Any of the above mentioned systems would work.

However; how are you going to reposition the panhard bar for a lowered suspension or alter the front end steering geometry with the flip of a switch? Having the proper suspension geometry at a given ride height is far more important than how low you are.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (15)

it seems he just wants to be able to raise thje car to get over things, so the only real issue there would be the panhard, but that again may be a non issue based on tire size and how much the car is raised.

or a watts link will help the rear centering issue.....

89_RS

And most every other issue that results from having a panhard bar. If you want to carve corners, hard to beat a Watts link. Thats why that puppy is on my build list.

Project 3.4 Camaro

I know what you meant when you were referring to airbags, and to the best of my knowledge they were never intended to be adjustable for ride height, because as you yourself said, when you change the height you change the rate as well.
Obviously I read their description if I went to the trouble to find their site and the part for our cars, I did misread it as air shocks though, when it actually said springs.
I'm sure air shocks from another car would be possible, I've seen far more extreme fabrications on these boards than that...Though I am still searching for info on them, most of what I find is in regard to air bags as springs and people incorrectly calling it air shocks...
What exactly are weight jacks, and how do they work? Are they adjustable isolators or something?

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (15)

these are the "kit" weight jacks. they are adjustable spring seats, so you can use whatever rate spring you wan tin a universal length, and set the ride height where you want/need it to be. Also makes setting corner weights a bit easier
http://www.ground-control-store.com/...hp/II=20/CA=67


or buy just the bolts and nut plates from most circle track dealers and weld them right to the k-member to save some money and room. then route the bolts up into the engine bay, so you dont have to adjust them from under teh car.


can do the rear the same way


they are not adjustable on the fly

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

86ta, do you have more info about those pics? I'd love a better impression of screw length, cup sizes, how big a hassle it was to install... Shouldn't be hard to do if you have the place and time or parts sitting around to experiment with, but sometimes you don't have that luxury.

As far as the original question, most of the suggestions made here just won't work well. For example the air ride thing it only going to be really right at one height, at any other height alignment will be off, effective spring rates will be wrong...

The only way to do it right is to setup the suspension with the correct geometry/rates, but have it mounted with cradles that are separate from the chassis and actuators that can raise/lower them. I've seen this kind of thing done on lowriders and some really high end cars, but never on something like a 3rd gen.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Yeah this whole thread is pretty silly. To the OP, air bags are absolutely intended to adjust the ride height. As has been pointed out, they are tough in a performance application because the rate changes with ride height. That is the beauty of weight jacks. Height is independent of spring rate. But the height cannot be changed while driving.

As for air shocks, they are not adjustable on the fly, and they are generally terrible for handling.