Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

One of my winter projects on the Camaro is to get the car to launch without blowing the tires off. Presently the weight transfer seems bad on launch too.

I'm going to get new strut mounts (found them for around 50 bucks each) - along with 70/30 struts (either Lakewood or simular) and adjustable rear shocks. I also intend to get a set of weld-in LCARBS to fit the Moser 9" I have in it.

It already has a UMI non-adjustable TQ arm (trans mounted), UMI wonder bar, IROC 36mm front sway bar added, Lakewood LCA's and newer stock height springs (cheapies). Poly bushings pretty much everywhere and the older style rectangular Spohn welded SFC's.

Is this/ can this be a decent combo that'll improve traction once I dial in the rear shock settings, or is there something else I should be looking at? What are you guys with the 1.4 to 1.6 60' times using??

EDIT: - And yes, I'll be getting either some wide 15 or 17" tires on the rear - something much more sticky than the cheap BFG Ecentia's......

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Anyone?.....Sorry if this has been covered already, but I can't find it if it was...just looking for good setup that'll work well for street and strip...

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

Your combo seems to be going well so far. Tying these cars together is a good start.

With the 5 speed you will have a little harder time getting out of the hole. I guess it depends on how much you will really be at the strip, BUT I had KYB adjustibles on my last iroc and I cut 1.59 60' ALL day NA and when I threw the 150 shot on it I got 1.50's....

As far as settings LOOSE up front and middle of the road in the back did me well. Too soft and the car squated too much. Too tight and the car would leave and then unload the tires and start spinning. Good luck!

PS. If its more of a strip car get QA1's. They ill be hard to beat in the drag strip category...

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Hey thanks for the reply!...The car is your basic mostly street car, and might see 10% on the strip on test-n-tune days. But I really have more of an issue than just getting out of the hole. If I give the throttle everything after I get moving up to about 3rd gear and 35 MPH, it'll spin the rear tires before it starts to grab the road.

So really, it's lacking having decent performance even on the street. I had a Hemi Charger run me block-to-block (rural road with nothing but corn fields of course), but I got smoked from 0-50 MPH because all I could do was watch him take off while I spun my tires. Once I got to around 40 MPH, the rear starts to settle in and I start to catch him pretty fast, but by the time that happens, the block is over and I lose.

It was frustrating to say the least. I know for a fact I have more power - and esp. torque than any stock Hemi. I can't really tell if the car would squat hard on takeoff or not since I can't get enough traction in the first place...so I'm hoping with 70/30's in the front and adjustables in the rear (with better tires), I might be able to dial in a little better traction. Glad to hear I'm at least on the right track to solving this then.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

EDIT: - And yes, I'll be getting either some wide 15 or 17" tires on the rear - something much more sticky than the cheap BFG Ecentia's......



If those are the tires you are still running you won't hook no matter what you do! Throw something better on there and see what happens! Drag radials will help. And if you ask here are the order I like them in....

Nittos: If mostly street. Not quite as good hook, but GREAT life(Fotr a DR)
BFG: good hook and decent tread life
M/T's: great hook, lowest tread life

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Thanks! yeah, I know these Ecentia's aren't the best for traction, but they do wear nice....if my car was a DD, and still had the old 305, I wouldn't mind so much.

I think you have a good idea.....I think I'll try new DR's on the rear first and go from there. since it's just a weekend warrior, I bet they will last a while anyway.....If I can get it to really hook, I'll only need to concern myself with breaking parts then! lol!,

Norm Peterson

Can you explain what makes you think this?


You need better tires. I can't even find that particular tire model in a brief search. I'm not going to say much about DR's and possible rain. Just that DR's will give away a lot of their extra grip just cruising around town and won't be there for you when you really want that extra grip. Part of the price you pay for running soft compound tires is that they heat-cycle out before the tread is gone.

I'd save the DR's for the strip and run decently grippy summer tires the rest of the time. Something with, say, 200 - 240 treadwear rating. If you keep them properly inflated and don't drive like you're at the dragstrip the rest of the time, you ought to be able to get 10,000 miles per 100 treadwear out of most any true street tire.


The LCA relocating brackets should help.


Norm

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Hard to explain, but it seems like the car doesn't squat enough in the rear on take off. Like the weight is not transferring to the rear enough. Instead I start spinning and wheel hop.

I'll look around for some tires and post up which I'm thinking of getting for some expert opinions. The car might see 10,000 miles in 3 years - maybe...
I never heard that term before...what's it mean?
Well, I have 'em - pic attached.
[IMG][/IMG]

Norm Peterson

1. Squat does not cause "weight transfer". All it is . . . is some visible evidence that rearward load transfer is happening during acceleration. It is possible to arrange the rear suspension such that no squat at all occurs, or that the rear actually rises (drag racers tend to call this 'separation'). Long story short, don't use squat as a good indicator of "weight transfer".

2. Heat cycling is kind of an accelerated aging process where tires are concerned, due to the heating effect during use followed by cooldown when you stop for a while. All tires do this to some extent, but the grippier compounds 'age' faster, and as they age, their grip drops off more rapidly. This effect is far more widely recognized in road-racing, open-tracking, autocrossing, and roundy-round asphalt racing circles than among drag racers and street racers.

I can tell you from experience that as soon as you step away from pure street tires, you can notice the loss of grip as the tire has been heated and cooled many times. Initially, as in within the first 50 miles, just driving two or three miles normally on them would get the tread decidedly hot and slightly sticky. Now that they have well over a hundred autocross runs and quite a few street miles (read: lots of heat cycles), they don't get any more than slightly warm after a full minute of hard use at autocross, are not at all sticky to the touch, and the car is definitely more "slide-y". Nor are they as grippy on launch.

And those tires aren't even in the DOT-legal category that includes drag radials and autocross "R-compound" tires.


3. I had never heard of that tire model before. So I'm guessing that it's a mass-market store private name. If so, that should probably tell you something about its performance intent.



Norm

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

-Thanks for the explanation Norm. You probably nailed it on the BFG Excentias I have. I *think* I got them at the local Wallymart to replace the ones that were on the car when it sat in a driveway and didn't move for 7+ years...I had enough on my hands back then just trying to get the car remotely roadworthy...so it's most likely a mass produced chain store tire.

They must have a relatively hard rubber compound since I've spun them many times with no real wear on them at all. So - I know the hard rubber compounds aren't gonna work very well for traction, and as you explained, going with too soft of a tire may cause issues too.

Do you have any recommendations for brand or type of tires that will give me consistantly good traction on the street, and will still suffice for an occasional run down the strip? If they don't last 50K miles, that's OK since the car is a weekend warrior with maybe one long trip (under 2K) a year. I'll have the LCARBS and shocks in before spring.

-Thanks in advance!

EDIT: I would rather not buy a "street" set and another "strip" set of tires and wheels since I'd rarely use the strip set and they'd dry rot before I got any decent use out of them....not to mention the added expense.

Norm Peterson

I know that the guys over on a couple of the Mustang forums are pretty fond of Nitto tires, and not just the NT555R DR's.

NT555's or Invo's will last longer than NT05's, but are likely to be a little less grippy on dry pavement. I'm not referring to the new NT05R drag radial that's being advertised in all the magazines lately, but the NT05 street tire (that I think is really a mild competition tire suitable for up to local levels of street tire autocross competition). Unfortunately, I haven't heard much with respect to NT05 and heat cycling. Maybe the Street Touring section under Solo (Autocross) over on SCCAForums.com has something?

I've just put a set of Goodyear Asymmetrics on the '08 Mustang, but I haven't had them on long enough to say much other than they're way better in the wet than the OE BFG KDWS's ever were. A little on the pricey side, but they made the top of Consumer Reports' summer performance tire test list recently and were top rated/recommended in spite of the cost.


Norm