383 Power

iTrader: (2)

All of this is New:
Center Link
Tie Rod Ends
Ball Joints
Idler Arm
Intermediate Shaft/Rag Joint

Here are the Non New Parts i've Tried:
Two Different Steering Columns that were both VERY Tight
Two Different Steering Boxes (Including one that i Rebuilt)

My Steering has about 6" of Slack that i CAN NOT remove! How is this even possible. 75% of my Steering System is BRAND NEW. Do i have to buy a NEW Steering Box and NEW Steering Column? What if i do and the Slack is STILL there?

Here is what i HAVE NOT replaced in the Front Suspension:
Struts
Anti-Sway Bar
Tires (But the slack is there with it sitting on the ground not even running)

Is there ANYTHING that i'm missing? Remember, I've tried TWO Different Columns and Steering Boxes. Could it be that something is Loose in the front suspension? I had a shop install and align it.

Matt S iroc

i would have someone move the wheel back and forth so u can watch the linkage to see if there is any play there first

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

Already did that. No Play at all. Nice and tight.

built91Z28

Sorry but you need to have someone move the wheel again. Bottom line is that nothing in the front end is hidden. If someone is moving the wheel 6" side to side, you will be able to see where the movement is. If they are moving the steering wheel, and the shaft in the engine compartment is not moving, then it is in the coulumn inside the car. If the shaft is moving, but the pitman arm is not moving, then its in the gearbox. Also look for things like a cracked frame and the whole gearbox moves. Check every single last part in the front end while someone moves the wheel. This is the only way to find it, and it is 100% that you can find it this way.

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

You're right....... I need to attack it again another day though when i'm not completely frustrated. If the Frame is cracked, what's my Recourse? It wouldn't surprise me with this car.

built91Z28

Working on the car when frustrated is the worst thing you can do. Trust me, been there, done that. Much better to forget about it for that day and come back the next with a clear head.

If the frame is cracked, it can be repaired. I had to weld up my girl friends 91. If it is cracked, I would get a wonder bar. This helps to spread the load between both frame rails. Actually, I would get one even if it isnt cracked just to make sure it doesnt crack.

When you move the steering wheel, does the car move back and forth at all?

AM91Camaro_RS

I assume you probably haven't driven it much like this but, any tire wear issues? Have you checked the control arm bushings. I agree though, have someone move the steering wheel while you look around under the car. also, might want to check strut mounts. sway bar won't cause this problem.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Since you've replaced the whole linkage, my best is in the steering shaft OR the steering box frame mount as stated above. I had tons of play in my steering wheel because the bolt on the steering SHAFT was very loose (i could move the steering wheel a good 10-15 degrees before it actually turned the wheel.)

Or it could be a mix of the two.. I don't see how the struts would affect this.. But best thing is to get someone to turn the steering wheel while you look under the car, you'll find the problem right away.

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

No, The Car doesn't move with the Play in the Wheel. I've been back and LOOKED at the situation and it doesn't LOOK like the frame is cracked (Thank GOD). I do intend to get a Wonder Bar, but i wanna get this steering thing buttoned up first. I got 3 Steering Boxes right now if you count the one that's on the car. I think i'm gonna take one with me to Advance Auto and use it for a Core. Perhaps I'm not cut out for Steering Box rebuild. Especially since i don't even have a Garage. I did it in my Living Room. No, I'm not Married. If i get a Professionally Rebuilt one for around $150 at the Parts store and i STILL have this problem, i'll know to look Elsewhere.

AM91Camaro_RS

do what built91z28 suggested in post #4. i would anyway, to maybe avoid spending $150 I may not have to spend.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

My friends 89 GMC pickup has a (sounds like) similar issue. His steering shaft is worn out because the truck was used for plowing. The double "D" of the larger shaft is actually closer to being round instead of D shaped on the sides. This or your rag joint sound like it is the problem, not anything else in the steering.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

look at the rag joint / shaft, it's very common for rag joint to go! Mine is wearing out and i'm buying a flaming river shaft with solid joints on both ends for a TIGHT TIGHT steering input!

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

In my First post, I stated that my Intermediate Shaft/Rag Joint is BRAND NEW. It's not a pull off of a Junker. OEM Replacement. I paid handsomely for it too. I don't know why those thing are so damn expensive new.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

my bad. another thing to consider: i've read that frame rail cracks at the steering box mount are under where the box is, and can't be seen unless the box is off..

Did you try getting an alignment with the specs? Maybe we would be able to determine the problem from that?

built91Z28

Dumb question, but the steering wheel itself isnt loose is it?

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

I think i found it. I think you guys were right the whole time. I think that it WAS the steering box. I have 3 Boxes. One is from the Junkyard off of a Firebird, Another is the one that i rebuilt off of a 91 Camaro, and the one that came off the car. The one that i rebuilt seems to have had alot of Slack in it. I don't know what i did wrong to give it that much slack, but it's there. I tested the one that i got off the Firebird and it LOOKS tight. I installed it, but i have my dash apart working on my Instrument Cluster (Sometimes i'm too ambitious). In a Day or two when i get everything back together, i'll be able to give you guys a Definite answer. The thing that confuses me though is that the ORIGINAL one i took off of there feels tight off the car too, but it had slack while installed. I sure hope this fixes it. I would hate to have to get a 4th Steering Box. I can promise you this though. If this box has slack too, and i can't adjust it out, I'll be BUYING a professionally Rebuilt Box for around $150.

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

Three is a Charm! the Third Gear box was Tight(er). It's driveable. It's not as good as my 2005 PT Cruiser, but it's not bad. I got about an Inch of play now. I haven't tried to adjust that out yet, but i'll work on that some other day. Good thing i put it down when i was getting Frustrated. Thanks for the Help guys.

stielow775

My steering was super loose i adjusted right by where the rag joint was there is a huge locknut and then it has two divits i turned that to make it tighter, and boy did it make a huge diffrence before I had to drive with 2 hands on the wheels at 70mph, now going down the road it is so much tighter. I honestly couldnt believe it was so loose. 140k miles on the car all original but never driven hard.



Matt

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

Well, i might look into the one i rebuilt and check the preload on the steering shaft. I think that's the Nut you're describing. The Two holes is where you attach a Spanner Wrench.

stielow775

Yes that is the one. I guess you take it off torque it to 6-8lb then back it off 1/2 inch. I did it while it was still in the car. Seriously my steering was so sloppy it was scary. Now its alot better. I have 190k mile mustangs that were tighter, now with it tightened up i think i found the majority of the problem. I still am going to rebuild the front end. But i wanted to enjoy it for a little.


Matt

stielow775

http://www.elcaminocentral.com/showthread.php?t=27532

Above explains it clear as day.


Matt

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

That's a Nice link. Since i've Rebuilt one and failed, I'll probably go back and fix it, but i have a good one in there now.

Here's an update though. I'm an Idiot. When i installed the last box, I didn't tighten the screw that connects the column to the Intermediate Shaft. That was stupid. What's even more stupid is that i test drove it with a Loose screw there. The Remaining play that i was gonna adjust out was the result of that screw. Now it's as tight as my 2005 PT Cruiser.

I do intend to go back to the one that i rebuilt and fix it, but it looks like i don't need it. Perhaps i can keep it for a spare or sell it.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

This is not the correct way to do it and is a dangerous procedure in a worst case scenario and a quick way to kill your box otherwise.

What that nut does is it sets the preload of the pitman and sector gear meshing. These are cut so that the on center gears are a little bit tighter for that on center feel.

The proper way to adjust these is with a dial torque wrench where you first set the end play of the adjuster nut in the T shaped slot of the pitman shaft, then you assemble the box and set the bearing preload and finally the on and off center drag with the dial torque wrench. This is a delicate procedure and just guessing it by hand on a car like that is a sure way to over-tighten it because the power assist will not let you feel if it's too tight. Having the nut too tight will accelerate wear, even tighter and the box may even lock up when it gets hot.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

I told you this in an earlier post:

"Since you've replaced the whole linkage, my best is in the steering shaft OR the steering box frame mount as stated above. I had tons of play in my steering wheel because the bolt on the steering SHAFT was very loose (i could move the steering wheel a good 10-15 degrees before it actually turned the wheel.)"

That's what I wrote above. The bolt on the steering shaft was a problem that I had as well, it was loose causing the same problem as you, but not as bad. Tightened it and voila, back to normal.

I'm just glad you fixed it cuz yes driving it loose like that could have gone bad..

stielow775

Well i tried it in my convert with 140k miles driving down the freeway was beyond scary, and it was beyond loose. Now it drives and tracks perfect doing what i posted. . I will keep a eye on it, but i tested it out in my church parking lot for binding, and there was none, matter of fact it feels like new, or darn near. Probably the best is to get a new box though.

Matt