CapnCrunch53

Hey guys, I'm thinking about replacing/upgrading my shocks, struts and springs. I think I've got the gist of it, but I'm inexperienced with suspension and clueless as to what parts or brands to get. So I was hoping you guys could recommend specific parts for me?

My car rides terribly rough over bumps; I feel like I have to go slow and baby it all the time. My car is a fair-weather driver that I like to make quick when I can. It doesn't see any autocross use; nor does it go to the strip, though when I get more performance upgrades on, it will definitely lean towards a quick street car rather than a corner rider. So I want something that will be smooth and comfortable, and give reasonable performance (a bit better than what stock would offer, perhaps?). I'd be game for slight lowering springs, but not too much; I come close to having clearance issues now, but I would bet that the ancient springs are sagging at this point, so new springs could very well raise it a tad.

Currently, its got stock 15" wheels and some fairly new summer tires on. Everything else relating to suspension is stock as far as I know. I suppose shocks and struts are the greater priority, but I would like to replace them and springs at the same time. One other thing, these will probably go on around the same time as some new SFC's, so together this is kind of my ride quality project for the car. I know KYB, Koni, and etc. are some of the popular brands, but I don't have any idea specifically what to get, or what would work well in combination, so that's what I'm asking you guys for. If possible, I'd like to keep it in the budget / midrange area, but I can hold out for a bit if it means better quality. Let me know what you think!

AM91Camaro_RS

Konis are about your best bet for cornering. If you want more along the lines of a drag setup, I probably wouldn't spend the money on them, though.
One thing that I noticed a little while back on my car that I figure probably has a lot to do with it riding so rough when you hit bumps is that I only have about 1/2" or so clearance before the front suspension bump stops hit. That means, 1/2" compression in the front suspension and its then "rigid" (hard piece of rubber between chassis and control arm), instead of having the spring and strut to dampen the bumps. You may want to look at that, also.

camaronewbie

You mentioned the car rides rough over bumps - like it's hitting them hard or like it's too soft and bounces too much over bumps? And then, do you want a softer ride (no jarring like a Caddy), or do you want a stiffer ride (some jarring, but firm)?

The reason I ask - the high dollar performance shocks/struts that alot of us use - these are going to make you feel every little bump in the road. They are designed for much better handling, and with better handling it's inherant that you're going to feel more, thus you can 'handle' the car better based on everything that you are feeling - if that makes sense.

I installed Eibach Prokit lowering springs, and Bilstein shocks/struts, along with all new polyurathane bushings all around the car, and all new suspension components (tie rod ends, end links, ball joints, idler arm, etc.). I love the ride, but it's not for everyone. I feel every little crack in the pavement, but she's so tight on cornering and so responsive with steering that sometimes I forget how responsive she can be and I'll oversteer a tad. At 75mph, I can turn my wheel not een 1/8th turn, and before you can blink she's changed 4 lanes of traffic - the response is amazing, and she just hugs tight to the road with virtually no body roll. But I wouldn't want to take my mother on a 8 hr ride in it - as I said you feel every little crack. It makes a great street handling or cruizing car, and I imagine she'd be alot of fun carving canyons (which I haven't done yet).

So - if you're looking for a smooth comfortable ride - save the expense of the Koni's, Bilsteins, etc. Look at lower end Koni's maybe (if there is such a thing), or KYB mid-line stuff. But if you want the feel of a great handling, little body roll, performance ride - then look into the higher end like Koni, Bilstein, or the upper end KYB.

In either case, your probably needing new suspension components as well if your ride is very rough on stock shocks/struts. I'd assume your stock springs are sagging so they don't have the tension they once had, and thus compress too easily. Your shocks/struts are probably as well just worn out, so they aren't dampening the recoil after the springs compress. And if they've not ever been done, you're guaranteed to need new ball joints and tie rod ends, end links, and probably an idler arm. Napa is a great place to get the ball joints, tie rod ends, idler arms, etc. The higher priced option they carry is great - nice beefy parts and a great bang for the buck.

So - you might want to look at getting new suspension parts first, and seeing how much a difference that makes in the ride before choosing springs/shocks/struts.

Hope that makes sense. Look locally for another 3rd genner that maybe has redone theirs - then you can do a ride-along and see what their brand of goodies offers and feels like to give you an idea.

CapnCrunch53

Thanks for the replies! I guess it feels like its hitting the bumps too hard; you definitely hear and feel every bump and even changes between pieces of road. Like hitting potholes; not AS rough of course, but that sort of sound/feel. Not really a bounciness.

I don't really mind feeling the bumps in a performance setup, I just don't like feeling them because of a worn out setup, if that makes sense. But I suppose I would like a decent balance of performance and smoothness. I've seen how expensive some of the higher-end stuff is, and I really don't take turns fast or push the handling anywhere near its limits, so I think I'll steer towards a softer ride. It'll be a bit more comfortable, and more affordable for my price-range. Would, say, mid-range KYB stuff still perform better than a stock setup as far as hugging the road? I don't really want to turn it into a Caddy, but I'm not going for the super high-end, so if I could strike a decent middle-ground, I'd be happy.

I actually imagined that I would want to replace springs and shocks first, then look into the other suspension components, but apparently it should be the other way around. I'll look into replacements from NAPA, so I'm looking at replacing ball joints, tie rod ends, and an idler arm? I'll look into those and any other misc. suspension parts (I should figure out what they do first!) and get the high-end versions. Are these components usually very expensive?

The ride-along is a great idea; I know a guy with a 3rd-gen RS that he put a 400 SBC into, and he offered to help me out any time I need it on my car. Also offered for me to cruise with his group of 3rd-genners every weekend during summer, which I'll be taking up his offer once its really nice. I'll ask him what he's done as far as suspension on his and go for a ride.

The note about having only 1/2" clearance with the front suspension, was that because of sagging springs?

This is all still a couple months away, but I'm trying to get everything planned out now so I know what I want. I'm still figuring this stuff out, so I appreciate your patience with me!

88gta3508

I have AGX adjustable's all the way around.. it's nice to have a smooth ride for driving
I only put my front drop springs in.. if you install the rear drop springs. these cars are way to low. my exhaust would scrape on the center line where the pavement overlaps..
to low for me.. it also will not let you hook up when you launch

AM91Camaro_RS

Yeah, I forgot to clearify that part. My springs are sagging pretty badly...hence the small clearance on the bump stops.

CapnCrunch53

Alright, I'm doing some scouting for parts. Looking at shocks, I like the KYB GR-2's, they're twin-tube shocks that basically restore to factory performance. Now I'm also looking at the KYB Gas-A-Just, which is monotube and is supposed to increase performance over a twin-tube. I'm guessing our cars were twin-tube stock? The Gas-A-Just is only available for the rear in our cars; is it ok to have monotube shocks on the rear and twin-tubes on the front? Looks like I can get a full set of 4 GR-2's for around $190, and 2 GR-2's and 2 GAJ's for a little more. So that gives me some idea what to expect. Thoughts on these shocks?

That covers shocks; what are some good companies for springs? Any particular model suggestions?

And then I'm currently looking on NAPA at suspension components. In all honesty, this doesn't look like it's gonna turn out to be too terribly expensive after all.. I'm getting a bit excited

EDIT: How about thoughts on Eibach Pro-Kit springs? I remember several people on here and on FBO having them and liking them. They're pretty decently priced too, so opinions on them?

CapnCrunch53

Bump, thread seems to have gotten lost in the sea. Anyone got some recommendations as to springs? Also, who's had experience with the KYB GR-2 and Gas-A-Just shocks? Care to share your experiences?

DJP87Z28

I am using the KYB gr-2 up front and the gas-adjust rears. Been on for a year now and have no peoblems with the ride or perfrmance. Also repaced all the front steering parts and all the sway bar end links. The last thing I would replace is the springs. Reason, these car are not heavy haulers and the springs do not wear out.

camaronewbie

I would have to disagree on the springs not wearing out.

Assuming they are the original springs, they've been holding 4000 pounds for 20 years on his car.

When I replaced my original springs with the Eibach Prokit (1in drop), my car actually rose up instead of dropping - because the original springs were sagged so much! I read other threads here all the time with the same results - folks asking WTH? because their "lowering springs" actually raised the ride height.

If funds, time, or whatever requires one to work in stages, I'd say

1) do the rear as a stage (it's all easy, fewer parts, and thus cheaper)
2) do the tie rod ends, ball joints, end links, etc. as stages - you can do each independantly as a weekly project and don't have to mess with A-arm or struts to do these
3) do the front struts and springs at same time - biggest expense here (depending on struts bought), most time consuming, hardest part to do.

Not that any of it is really that time consuming - I did my entire car in a day in the driveway.

You want to do tie rods ends so that you're done in time to go get an alignment that day.

If lowering 1 in you need an adjustable panhard bar - if lowering more you also need an adjustable torque arm (and thus more time to do the rear as the torque arm can be a bear).

As far as brands - all I can tell you is

1) the regular KYB's are just like stock
2) I LOVE my Bilsteins and Eibachs!

And please make sure and use the chain or heavy rope method when changing the front springs - I love to see fellow 3rd genners UNLESS THEY ARE HEADLESS from a flying coil spring!

DJP87Z28

Everyone has opinion about stock spring and the need to replace them. They are the last thing I would replace and you did it on 92?? Good for you.

Original owner & stock original springs and nothing is wrong with them. Designed to support weight.

CapnCrunch53

Thanks for the input guys! I plan to buy all the parts at once, but I'll still do it in stages over a day or weekend. Some good info camaronewbie, thanks. I looked at Bilstein shocks and struts but they're a bit more than I want to spend, at least for the front struts. I'm good with a stock ride, so I'm thinking I'll stick with the KYB's.

DJP87Z28, appreciate the input, but I do intend to replace the springs too. I'm looking at MOST a 1" drop kit, like the Eibachs, so I see I'll need an adjustable panhard bar. I don't need to worry about an adjustable torque arm? That should make it simpler.

Also, I've seen this front suspension/steering rebuild kit from Spohn recommended in a few threads on here. http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...GM-F-Body.html
It includes the centerlink, idler arm, tie rod ends, and tie rod adjusters. If I order it with the balljoints, are there any other components I would need? Or does that more or less cover it?

CapnCrunch53

Hey guys, I'm about ready to order my suspension parts. I'm going with the KYB's and the Eibach Pro-Kit. I've just got one more question. I'm really clueless as to what kind of panhard bar I need to get... looking on Spohn's site there are several adjustable ones:

I guess the difference is the joints on the ends? I have no idea which would be the best for my needs.. any help?

AM91Camaro_RS

The difference is the ends. A lot of people will suggest the poly/poly for a street/mild performance car. The poly/rod will be slightly stiffer but by putting the poly end on the cahssis side, you shouldn't absorb as much vibration through the chassis (think road noise in car). The rod/rod will be stiffer still. Some people say it transmits too much noise but some say that they couldn't tell a difference. I don't see the del-sphere joints being benificial on the panhard bar.

CapnCrunch53

Alright, thanks! Well, I ordered my stuff. I went with the poly/rod combo. Also I remembered that the shop had replaced the centerlink and idler arm last summer, so I'm just replacing the tie rod ends and the balljoints. Eibach 1" Pro Kit and KYB GR2 & Gas-a-Justs. Also got subframe connectors. Now just gotta find a local lead on a good 3.23 or 3.42 POSI.. thinking about going with a disc 4th-gen rear, only thing stopping me is concern over the LS1 brakes having issues fitting with the 15" wheels.

At any rate, thanks for all the help and advice guys! Can't wait till my stuff comes; hopefully the stuff I got from Spohn gets here in time to work on it during spring break.

84z .....

yellow koni's in the front and comp. eng. 50/50 3 ways in the back
eibach pro kit works for me

Blind Driver

I read a thread that the 15"s will clear...or maybe with a little grinding. I don't remember. Mild grinding never really hurt anything.

CapnCrunch53

Well, my parts came in on Wednesday (super fast from both Spohn and TireRack.. waaay faster than I expected). Spring break starts for me today, so I'll be getting everything set up throughout the week. I'll let you guys know how it turns out. I'm still eying Craigslist for a decent rear end.

dukie

Well, how did you do?
I have been watching this thread with interest due to my vert seeming to sag a little.

CapnCrunch53

Well we installed the rear shocks, springs and panhard bar yesterday evening. Went pretty smoothly; the rear springs had sagged to the point that they were the same height as the Eibachs, so about 1". Height is more or less the same, it does seem to handle bumps a bit better, but I can't really tell too much since I only swapped out the rear parts. And the front would probably be the more worn parts anyways, because of the engine weight, I'd guess. Gonna finish the job a bit later in the week; my dad's feeling a little under the weather and I'm gonna need his help for this. The shiny new parts look awesome though. TBH, getting the damn carpet back behind the rear seat might have been one of the most annoying parts. So all in all its coming along nicely.. just gotta do the front now (which will be quite a bit tougher and more dangerous.. yay!)

dukie

Thanks for the update. I will keep an eye out for your front suspension when it is done.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

how is your progress on the fronts?
I have KYb GR2s all around and they ride great

CapnCrunch53

Thanks for the interest! I was actually going to post today. Sorry its been so long since updates. We started work on the front a week after we did the rear, and have been working on it on and off since then. We hit snags about everywhere along the way (broken bolts, trouble removing bushings, etc.) and a lot of our time was waiting for parts to come in. We also haven't had time every weekend to work on it, and so have had to make do with a couple hours every few days after school and work. Did the passenger side first, and almost done with the driver side now; its much quicker the second time! Got the spring and shock in today, and hit one last snafu: my dad accidently stripped the threads on the tie-rod, so I've got to wait for a new one to ship from Spohn. After that, we just have to put on my new nose and fender gfx, and then get an alignment and we're good to go. Can't wait to drive her and let you guys know how she rides!

EDIT: Oh forgot to mention, couple weeks ago I drove up to Kalamazoo (and am pleased to say the beater S10 performed flawlessly) and picked up a 3.42 posi disc rear from a '94. Perfect for me because its fast gears, posi, and an easier disc swap than a newer 4th-gen rear would be. Came with the prop. valve too. Gotta put new rotors and pads on it though, and get the right e-brake cables, and once I finish the suspension I'm gonna leave her be for a bit so I can enjoy it, so this rear might not go on for awhile.

CapnCrunch53

Well, got the suspension all back together today; just gotta get the nose on and then take her for an alignment on Friday. Should be back to tearing up the streets in no time!

Pepsicola

sweet!! I finally got my prokit, kyb GR2's, LCA's, LCARB, PHB, UMI caster camber plates intalled. Along with a rebuilt posi rear with 373 gears. It is a totally different feeling car now. The springs only dropped my car about 3/8 of an inch which is fine with me.