85Iroc-Z

iTrader: (4)

My car has a new set of the cheap Monroe shocks on it. How much of a difference would I notice by changing them for the Bilstein shocks? Is it really worth the money for the difference? Car is an 85 Iroc.

Saber

iTrader: (2)

Good shocks make a world of difference, Billsteins, Konis, and Tokicos are all good shocks and make a world of difference when compared to cheaper shocks.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

dont cheap out on shocks/struts, get watev your budget can afford. personally if u could go with blistens u could prob get koni since i dont think the price is that much diff... just save up the extra 100-200$, itll be worth it. i would never be able to afford koni, i stick to tokio or KYB. even the cheapy KYB GR2 would be an upgrade compared to the crapster monroes

upgrade the shocks/struts, make sure your springs are good, and bushings if not replace them and the car will be a whole new animal.

shockguys

I would rate them in this order in terms of your vehicle:

1. Bilstein
2. Edelbrock
3. KYB
4. Monroe

Saber

iTrader: (2)

What about Tokico and Koni?

I didnt know edelbrock made shocks...

shockguys

Unfortunately we don't carry those Manufacturers. We specialize in the products I rated, and we've been in this business for quite some time.

Yes Edelbrock makes shocks and struts. They are more known to do so for sports and muscle cars. Edelbrock and KYB are pretty close.

Saber

iTrader: (2)

I totally didnt see that you were a TGO sponsor, so i thought you were just leaving out the other brands, now it makes sense though lol.

Flip 2

iTrader: (1)

Get GOOD shocks, but also make sure all your bushings are in ok shape.
Poly bushings on your swaybars will go nicely with the new shocks.
After the Monroes and rubber bushings, you won't believe it is the same car.
Enjoy!

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

KONIs por favor!!

shockguys

Ha, no problem at all.

Best of luck on your search and decision. If you have any questions about what we carry feel free to let me know.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

im pretty sure that edelbrock doesnt make shocks/struts for our cars. mostly older muscle cars like vettes etc. never seen them for 3rd gens... am i wrong?

i wouldnt mess with monroes... if u really care about your car lol. cheapest i would go would be KYBs. then id do to tokios then konis. dont like blistens all that much even tho they are a good shock. and way better than stockers/monroes.

Bungle

on a related note.. i have read on here about revalved konis and bilsteins... can some one explain what this means and why its important?

Cheers

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

usually, revalving sets the valving for the set of springs you plan to be running. It sets the shocks for the rideheight and spring rate.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

+1 for Bilstein and Koni.

Also "shockguys" why is it you don't stock or sell Tokico or Koni?

Guest

Revalving is where a shock manufacturer or a shock rebuilder can valve a shock internals to your specs.
To give a general example of this lets take a normal middle of the road race shock (much better quality than the average street shock in performance, but will wear out quicker for daily use and needs rebuilding- I just wanted to note this) Lets take QA1 82 series shocks. Or even a Koni 82 series. QA1 valving goes from 1-12 on rebound, and 1 -12 on compression. Lets say you have a 12-4 shock, that is a 12 rebound, and a 4 compression. Now lets say you lower the front spring rate from 850lb springs to 800lbs, you may want to up the shock compression side only a click or two to a 12-5 or a 12-6 to compensate for dynamic loading on corner entrance to be the same but the steady state will change in handling characteristics (this gets complex, thats just a very basic hint towards what and why things are done).

Most people have no clue when the say they have a revalved shock on their car as to why they even needed it. They just like to think they have something custom and that custom is better. Fact is, it could be better, then again for their entire suspension package it could have made it worst also. I personally can drive a car and pinpoint what corner needs what change in both compression and rebound settings but need to keep making those adjustments until I go too far then back them down. This is where a set of very high end adjustable shocks come into play to fine tune a setup, then you simply buy the client those fixed valved shocks in the final setup.

Dean

Guest

I read my own response and want to eleborate a little better on some points...in laymen terms so those not famoliar with certain terms can understand things in plain english.

First of all, I talk alot about dynamic.
Dynamic is the car's weight transfer in motion, or dynamic loading.

Static is just that, still or motion less. .

There is differences in a cars performance on corner entry, on steadystate (set into lateral laoding, or settled into mid corner), then corner exit. All three are different but all three have pricinples of dynamic loading of chassis wegh under g forces.

Shocks are the only thing that counter act (or control) rebound dynamics (this is why shocks qualities are so important to vehicle performance)

Shocks AND springs counter act compression dynamics
(again, this is why shock qualities are so important)

HOWEVER, even though shocks are what contol dynamics, they are not what create dynamics. Springs will also affect or create rebound dynamics even though only shocks control it. Create and control are different, an important concept to retain when understanding the difference between rebound and compression settings, and dynamic creation of motion and assistance.
-----------
"good quality" shocks. What is ment by this? The overall qualities of the internal componants of a shock (its inner workings) Just like brake rotors can handle so much heat and overwork and fail, so can shocks. The internals of good quality shocks can handle agressive driving without foaming the internals oils or building heat and thinning the oils, or wearing out o-rings, or building to much pressure and being too stiff limiting suspesnion freedom required for mechanical grip of tires, etc.... You need good shocks. Monroe is for grandma's Cadillac (ok, for the record though, I own a Cadillac, so if I offended you? I also offended myself).
Can you put koni's on a Cadillac? I have. It firmed the handling and is a bite less "Cadillac" but is safer for manuvering to avoid accidents and road debris. I have less bodyroll, but feel the bumps slightly more- Life is a give and take. I do not need expensive Koni's due to not needing to perfomance drive the Caddy, just there for an emergency. I could velve them lower and be just like the factory Caddy shocks. I could use a cheaper gas shock for the Caddy like a KYB since I do not need heat and foaming control, but I already had the Koni's sitting around. Is it balanced for the proper valving for the cadillacs optimum handling? Its a Cadillac, they do not handle, so no, its not balnced, but it sure in hell feels better than it did before I added them, it went more in the right direction towards balnce, but still a long way for being a performance car. I could do the same with tire choice and sizes tightening or loosing the cars handling just oof of tire selection.....and so on.

Shocks is the second most important thing you can do to any car, next only to tire choice. I would take a car with good shocks and bad peformance wise tires over the reverse, BUT! I only sa tires are more important due to safety issues with blowouts and such make tires potentially a more dagerous item than a shock breaking.

Guest

I have a little more time today still, so lets go a little further with this discussion.

Vehicle dynamics and how shocks affect it?

Basics on how the compression and rebound affect the car in a corner.

corner entry to the right (sharp right hand turn)=
*rear rebound ties down the rear resisting forward weight motion, however, too much rear rebound will lift the rear tires skipping them under braking and/or making the rear light and loose into a corner. (You must realize and remeber this point- everything is always based on a roll couple- that means the proportion of what the front is doing as opposed tot he rear. SOOO, rear can be great, but then you chnage the front and all of a sudden the rear is bad without ever changing the rear- keep this in mind because what I am giving is general senerios that will definately go the other ay when the perameters are reached.)
*front compression aids in anti nose dive, but more compression force will weight the front tires and cause the car not to rotate or steer into a corner. (on a circle track car, I run different shock valving and spring rates in all 4 corners. If a car is tight going in, I can simply raise the LF compression to a 6 leaving the RF at 4 and the more weight will tranfer and the stiffer valved shock loading the LF and putting more dynamic heat into it during corner entry only.
*right side rebound, controls body roll towards the left into the sharp right corner

I gotta run, life calls. More later if I remember.

Flip 2

iTrader: (1)

What Vetruck is saying is revalving is a swamp you should stay out of UNLESS you are a racer or, maybe, a high end Autocrosser.

Bungle

Yep I got that too... I take from this thread that since i am planning to go with Eibach Pro Kit springs, i should definitely save the cash to put konis or bilsteins on there too but the off the shelf ones with probably be fine.

I will also need an adjustable panhard rod and a relocated LCA at least.

And I should do the bushings while I'm at it!

That should bring the best out of my spare set of wheel and tires which have Toyo Proxes R888s on!

shockguys

We use to sell Koni but since the advent of the internet there are alot of Koni refurbished shocks out there, be careful.
We carry KYB which we consider to be better than Tokico.

mooch1

what about gabriel shocks?..any good?

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

They're comparable to the Monroes. Bottom of the barrel.

Guest

Basically yes.

The long and short of it is ...what is good for you today may noit be perfect for you tomorrow based on wear, temperature changes, metal fatigue, and overall friction grip changes changing bodyroll charateristics.

That last little bit of fine tuning always needs to be re-fine tuned. Get a street car close and you are good enough ofr daily general use, but will never keep up with optimunum changing road conditions and temperature changes. My truck alone I could show you a mid speed sweeper onramp (270* cloverleaf freeway entrance at about 60mph range) that days my truck pushes through it, and days its loose through it. My caddy corners it bitchin' at a crisp 25mph if you get my drift- in other words, there are cars I drive that I do not drive like an ****, and there are those I just can't help myself. I actually have on the fly"in cockpit" controls in my truck to adjust the rear setup slightly with assited airbags and shock damper controls on the dash. I can change the ride accordingly to the load also that is do frequently carry in it. This truck is a lowered 1/2 ton 89 Chevy that will do 150mph and will also carry a 4000lb payload in the bed (my only limiting factor is the rims that are rated to 3200lbs rear payload with the C6 Z06 wheels. I keep tyhe loads 3000 or under because of that. Thisd truck is far from stock so even though it is a 1/2ton, there is not one single factory nut or blot anywhere left on this truck other than body panel fasteners. Not even the cab to frame mounts or bolts are stock and I have completely boxed and welded the frame custom. I run 2 shocks in each corner of this truck totaling 8 shocks in all. Two of the rears are cockpit adjustable, the other 6 or not. The two that are adjustable are a custom controler setup Rancho 9000's (I do not use Ranchos cheesy control unit) and the other 6 shocks are mid to high end QA1 racing shocks fully takeapart and rebuildable. Ther ranchos in the rear will linearly up the rear compression AND rebound consistantly to conter the weight loads, but for unloaded handling, I have the other two rear high end shocks being QA1 double adjutables where I can separately set the valving and then combined with the rancjos up the values on the fly as needed.

These QA1 rears are also 'Digressive' valved shock which means they do not build linear pressure and the piston speed increases. Thyu actualy bleed off pressure as force is increased. THese shocks give me good higher low piston valve dampering but do not build overly stiff at high speeds. Combining this with the linear valved Ranchos I get most of my uuse out of the QA1's and then can add pressure is higher speed damoering is desired (gerenrally higher MPH will result in higher piston speeds, but not always- roads have alot to do with this). THis in not a race car, but is as close to a full blown race truck you will ever see on the street especially being used daily to carry heavy load. The truck really is amazing its broad range of use and overall above average perfornmance levels even for a cars standard never the less being a truck.

The fronts are also one linear valved and one digressive valved shcok in each corner I custom valved to get the feel and handling I wanted. I also run 1400 springs up front and added 75lb spring rubbers to get the nose balanced to the heavy load rear that would notoriously push only for the capability to carry heavy loads but be loose when empty. THats where the rear bags com in the assit the load, not full time- this way I keep the spring rates down when not needed and keep the shock dampers down when also not needed.

I know this is not 3rd gen related, but a good education on how shock valving and choice of valve disk can be used to contol chassis motion (IE using linear and digressive disk shocks). THe other choice is to lay out BIG BUCKS for Penske 4 way adjustable shocks which control both low and high piston speeds on both compression and rebound settings. I do it the less expensive way using ywo cheaper shocks rather than using one ultra expensive shock that will do it all for that tire and chassis corner. Trust me though, the one 4way is a superior method though and works better, but my way still works very well.

phess11

btw, our cars came from the factory as one of the best handling cars built in america and overseas (https://www.thirdgen.org/besthandlin...driver-may1984)

They came with Gabriel Struts/Shocks.

Later IROCs came with Bilstein

Sometimes I think we get ourselves into a mindset that is "If more is better, too much is just right".

Flip 2

iTrader: (1)

LCA relocation a great thing..... top condition bushings are good (I like poly, some don't).

Vetruck: some good stuff..... for me trying too much to understand, got in the way of getting things to actually work. It is ALWAYS a treat to read someone who could do both.
CA cloverleafs: put bikes down twice on ATF puddles, sort of ruined them for me.
Cheers-

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

I'm well aware of the stock capabilities of our cars and have been for a long while. With that being said, those were the stock shocks- compared to the KONIs and Bilsteins they are pretty low pickings. Just because the cars came with them and they handled well, doesn't mean that with better shocks (nice KYBs, Tokicos, Bilsteins, KONIs) that they won't handle better. And it also doesn't mean that the shocks that they came with in the early 80s are the same ones you'd buy at the parts store 20-30 years later.

phess11

You are absolutely correct. It is all where you want to spend your money. It is a 25 year old car, 80% of the cars today can beat us from 0-60. I am just trying to make the point that the "stock" shock is not that bad of choice. You can always get something better for usually much more money. People get obsessed with upgrades. That route is never ending and seldom ends in contentment.

To each his own.

mooch1

i remember my brother had a charcoal 1984 Z-28 he bought new , he couldn't beleive the handling back then of that car compared to all the older chevelles and mustangs etc and the other cars he had owned or drove...i guess with better tires and shocks it would have been even better ...but i agree with you phess11 , when do you stop
upgrading?

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

I guess I could fall into the obsessed with upgrades, but the car is an ongoing project and has been since I got it- it's my hobby. I'm pleased with the car as it it, but the drivetrain needs replacing (almost 200k miles on the stock).

Exactly. You wouldn't run the same tires that came on the cars in the 80s (if you could even get them) where there are better designed tires out now with better compounds, so why would you want to run the 'same' dampeners if you could get better?

phess11

1. Cost.
2. May want to keep the car as original as possible.
3. You don't drive your car at the edge of its perfomance every week.

to name a few.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

I guess we look at our cars differently. I don't drive my car 'at the edge of performance' all the time, but I like to know I can when I want to. As for the cost, I'd rather spend more knowing I won't have to ever replace them (lifetime warranty on the KONIs). Plus with better tires and shocks, the cars are safer to drive in all weather conditions, espectially rain. As for keeping the car as close to original as possible...