WIll36

iTrader: (12)

So I wound up moving and the new driveway is a little steeper so the springtech 1.75s I was thinking about using would be way too low. I'm thinking about buying http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku. I know summit doesn't really make any of their own stuff. I think this is really a hotchkis part just with summit's name on it instead. Anybody used them yet?

sab

i havent used them but the local performance shop told me that all the summit brand or jegs brand is other brands stuff that didnt meet the final inspection, has blemishes, imperfections, etc. summit just buys the stuff that didnt meet specs and sells it at a discount

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

Or on some parts they just put their sticker on instead of the manufacturer. Like the adjustable proportioning valve that I know was made by Wilwood or my line lock that is made by Hurst. Exact same parts but different stickers and a little over half the price.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

heard the summit aluminum heads are trick flows without there CNC work and there name not casted/etched in it. summits stuff is not cheap stuff.

if the springs are hotchkins i wouldnt get them. from what i heard they are too soft. the hotchkins from what i heard is lowered ride height without increased spring rate. i had sportlines and loved them. im not gona be running cut moog 5664s and 5665s. from what i hear the best lowering spring are the prokits.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

Why did you choose not to use the Moogs?
And I have to disagree with the ProKit being the 'best'. The best for one car or driver may be crap for another. The 'best' spring is found for each car after trial and error and probably has a different ride height and spring rate than the next car/guy.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

I do want to drop the car a little bit so that's why I was leaning towards with summit stuff, since they're basically the same price as a pair of new moog springs at the cheapest I could find those. So I would rather get lower springs then play around with cutting coils off springs.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

I was aiming that towards customblackbird, but I can see what you mean. If you know what you're planning for the car and you want to do the research, you can actually get springs ordered to you height and spring rate specifications. That's what I plan to do when I get my weight jacks. I think they run from like $40-$80 a corner. Or, you can get an off the shelf kit, but I reccomend doing your research to find out what you want.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

I know I want a 1"-1.3" drop and I'm not too worried about the spring rate right now since I have a limited amount of time that I'm going to be working at the shop right now. So I would like to get the chassis and suspension setup done while I have easy access to a lift. I just wanted to know if anybody had used this particular product yet. Thanks for all the feedback but it's really not what I'm looking for.

howy03

iTrader: (2)

I have the summit 1 inch springs in my car sits nice but I have not driven it.I did some research and found the summit spring has the same spring rate as either the prokit or sportline I forget witch one check the rates of the springs.Also when I first installed them they seemed a bit higher I left my suspension loaded to install SFC,s and they seemed to settle .

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

You should be worried about spring rate. It determines (combined with the height of the spring) as well as the handling characteristics of the car. I can understand wanting to get done, but rushing things and doing them wrong won't get you anywhere.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

Your right and your wrong. If I was worried about autocrossing the car I would be more concerned about the spring rate. Where I live there isn't a place where I could even put my 88IROC with stock springs and shocks through it's paces enought to break contact or cause a lack of confidence in it's handling. This will be a strictly street car and I'm not going to go out and beat the hell out of it as long as these aren't any softer than stock they can't be worse then a 17 year old set that is in the car now. That combined with the fact that the vehicle didn't come with rear springs that match the front. I agree with you that if I wanted to wring out every .01 of a G on the skid pad or chase 10th in the slalom I would worry about the spring rate being a little too soft to optimize handling. I'm just building something nice to drive, I have another project car with full coilovers, this that and everything else. This simply isn't that vehicle so unless the springs were so soft to bottom out the struts on the street. Which I guarantee they're not I really don't have anything to worry about.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

I wasn't talking about building the car for auto cross. I was hoping that you'd make sure that you don't end up getting springs that are too short and too soft to keep you from bottoming out, or getting ones that won't lower the car any (because you mentioned lowering the car 1-1.3, but from what? your stock ride height? or the ride height of the car now? or some predetermined number the spring manufacturer puts out that may or may not relate to your car's year, model, or weight?) or be too stiff for the what you want from the car (I'm guessing DD/cruiser). And you can get any of these results from off the shelf pieces, depending on your tastes and your car. But you seem to know what you're doing.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

The springs are advertised as a 1-1.5 inch drop for a 3rd gen. I would assume that this is either based of the ride height of an IROC or a regular coupe. So I know they are made for a camaro and will be the appropriate length for a mild drop of just over an inch once settled. That being said I'm going with these because they're basically the same price as moog stock replacement springs. So I'm betting they will give me the stance I want with out making it so the car pounds the hell out of my kidneys anymore then a stock one would. Have a really tight car that handles like an animal is great, but if I don't really want to drive it that much cause it's uncomfortable it wouldn't make sense here. I just want a nice car to drive and have fun with. That being said I would rather replace suspension stuff now while I have some free time and free use of a full service shop. I'm replacing all the worn suspension stuff with moog parts but in this case it seems more prudent for me to buy the summit/hotchkis springs since they seem to work well for several people on the board that use their cars as I will use this one.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

They base the drop with X spring on a specific car, yes. But, the car's weight depends on options and year and the ride height is different depending on the car's weight. They say it drops XX inches for an 82-92 V8 Camaro/ Trans Am...but there's about a 3-400 lbs differnce in base RSs or Z28s and well optioned IROCs/ WS6s. Lowering the cars 1-1.5 inches on the stock spring rates may see you on the bump stops. I know I am with KONIs/ProKit. I was trying to offer some advice and was wanting you to get what you want from the car by encouraging you to do some research. I hope whatever you choose works well for your plans.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

Well I would assume thats why they say 1 to 1.5 inches since it would depend on vehicle weight. Since the car won't have AC or any emission and i'm not going to put subs or anything in it I think it'll be alright. If it sits low enough to become problematic I guess I'll just have to buy a set of vert springs and trim them to the ride height I want but I think the 350/T56 combo and what not in the car should be just alright. I'm not trying to shoot you down, but I was really just looking to find out if anybody had used this product and had any problems with it.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

If you car is much lighter than stock, and they say 1-1.5, you won't sit lower than 1-1.5, you'll sit higher than 1-1.5. Less weight with the same spring height and spring rate = higher ride height. But, I don't think cutting out AC and emissions equipment will lower the weight enough to affect the ride height a terrible ammount. I'm not worried about you shooting me down.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

Right what I meant was I would assume they would drop the car about 1.5 if it was on the heavier end and only 1" if it's on the lighter side. The AC and smog stuff definetly had a good 50-60 pounds to it. Is that gonna make or break anything? I highly doubt it. However this has gone totally off topic so lets just leave it at that. The real question and purpose for this thread was answered by howy03 in post #9. Thanks

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

So, no report on actual ride height or comfort, spring longevity, or a confirmation of spring rate. Question answered.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

Let me rephrase he told me something I didn't already know and managed to do it in a unirritating manor (your posts have a condesending tone). He answered my question of about how much I can expect this kit to drop the car and pointed me in the direction for the spring rate. I'm a mechanic by profession so I highly doubt there is anything you can tell me that I don't know or couldn't just look up on mitchel's and find GM's answer. So once again thanks for the useless input but unless your going to answer or help answer the question I posted please keep your opinions to yourself and stop posting information irrelevant to the question in this thread. Especially since everything your talking about is either common sense or already on the forum.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

What's common sense to you or me, isn't necessarily common sense to others so I always make the assumption people don't know. Maybe I shouldn't. I wasn't posting my opinions, I was trying to help you with your choice by stating facts. And despite many things being 'common sense' and already on the board, this doesn't stop people from asking questions instead of searching. This thread should prove helpful.
And in my experience, some mechanics know less than I do, so I appologize if I'm not terribly impressed.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

Yep saw the thread shoot me for wanting more than one person's opinion on a product. Yes I understand good mechanics can be hard to find and honest ones even more so. However between me and the 4 other techs at the garage up here there is a combination of 60 something year experience(3 of them are fully ASE certified) then add the 2 managers each with 10+ years of turning wrenches before answering phones. I think we've got it covered. So let me say it a little less politely this time. I don't want or need your opinion, your not helping to answer the question and it seems you have nothing more useful to add to this discussion. Opinions are like @$$holes everybody has one so why don't you keep yours to yourself on this particular matter.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

I wasn't doubting you and your group have it covered, but I agree good or honest mechanics are hard to find. No need to explain yourself to a weekend wrencher with no certification or employment in the realm.
And I wasn't aware you'd seen that thread as you hadn't mentioned. I just thought it might prove helpful since it seemed to answer your question as much or more than any other post in this thread.
I also haven't offered my opinions on this matter, only given you information I thought might help you and gave you a link to a post that answered your question. Appearantly, you needed neither possible helpful information or a thread detailing exactly what you were asking about.

RED_DRAGON_85

you know will, it occurs to me that you are being very offensive in your replies to well, everyone that has tried to help you.
so you are a mechanic.
big whoop.
ive had more mechanics **** up my camaro then you would believe.
many of them dont know how to do simple things like set the idle correctly using the IAC.
one in particular tried to sell me a $1700 trans rebuild which at the end, turned my 700r4 into a th350 with a lower first gear...
when he couldnt get the OD to work he said, everything is fine, just dont put it in overdrive and you will have a nice shifting trans...
WTF!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!


im sorry, but saying you are a mechanic really is not any kind of bragging rights in my opinion




and yes, opinions are like assho|es. everyone has one.
but if you dont want to see someones assho|e, dont ask them to take their pants off.

you asked what people thought about your choice of product and you got an answer you dont like.
deal with it and move on.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

Ok 1 I don't want a pissing match here. The title of the post asked specifically asked for the opinion of those that have this exact product. There is more than enough information on various threads about different spring/shock options I put up this post because there was only 1 person's opinion and experience with them that I could find. I guess I should have been more direct then I was but I thought I made it very clear I wasn't interested in opinions about other options. I also didn't trumpet the fact that I am a mechanic unitl the guy kept writting belittling and sarcastic junk that isn't helping anything. I'm also a double business and supply chain major. The point is so what. Neither of which HAVE ANY BEARING ON THE QUESTION AT HAND. I simply wanted to know if anybody else had good or bad reports on the product. Also your saying that I'm being rude. How does some guy from what ever shop screwing up your car have any bearing on how I do my job. To say all mechanics are dishonest or incompentant, because you had one bad experience is just plain ignorance. None of this has any place on this forum at all anyway it's ment to be a tool for enthusiasts not a place for us to flame eachother and act like teenagers. So lets agree to disagress on certain matters and leave it at that.

RED_DRAGON_85

what is there to disagree about?
the only consensus we have arrived at is that with summit springs you dont know what rate you are getting.

a lot of lowering spring manufacturers simply sell you a shorter spring with the same rate, or take the same length spring and reduce the rate to get the lowering.
either of these ways of lowering a car will result in much worse handling than you have now.
the proper way to lower a car is to use drop spindles, but since they are out of the price range of most people, drop springs are the alternative.
to get a correctly done job, you should get moog 5664 springs (their stiffest springs) and cut them to the height you want.
this ensures you have the spring rate to back up the lowering.
you might not think its a big deal, but considering that your average lowered thirdgen has about 3.5" of suspension travel, i wouldnt overlook spring rate but so much.
the majority of people on here will agree that lowering your car for looks without any regard to the effects of lowering the car is a bad idea and can be dangerous.

personally, id rather not bottom out every time i am on the highway and hit a dip or bump in the road or go over a bridge expansion joint or bit of rough pavement at 70 mph, but hey, its your car, do with it as you please.


as for 91_5.7_tpi being rude, well i disagree with that as well.
i think the word you are looking for is direct.
either way, ive gotten good advice from him before and never had a problem.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

i worked for a mechanic for a summer or so bc he needed sum help and i needed sum extra cash... one of the guys was ASE certified and he didnt kno squat! i bet my plumber was ASE certified not to say all ASE certified ppl arent good but thats not always the case. (not saying anything about your fellow workers)

its better seen on the boards that most ppl go with the prokit over any other lowering kit. the drop in height and stiffer rates than the sportlines.hotchkins, intrax, ST, etc.... they are mostly just shorter/lower springs with stock spring rates. sry to say it but i wouldnt expect summits springs to be any better. its a known fact that summits products are just name brand products that dont make it past there certifaction for minor defects... like paint etc, summit buys them cheap and sells it for half the price. its really simple. the prokits have the highest spring rates of lowering springs(in kits) vs the other lowering spring brands... and they offer a 1" drop so u dont loose too much travel like in the sportlines/intrax where the softer rates become an issue.

spring rates are very important to any type of ride. daily drivers/auto x... u lower a car and u need higher rates to keep u from bottoming out, whether it be the suspension/Aarm or the strut etc... u can lose control easily do to "to soft a spring" for a desired ride height. not to mention destroy and wear parts of the car FAST! u can whipe out a strut easily.

from what ive heard/read the prokits are about the highest in springrate, the hotchkins are close but not as stiff... ive read in the 650lbs range front. the sportlines are next as far as spring rates goes(700lb front/80-130lb rear, but doesnt help being the lowest drop at 1.7"front/1.3" rear) along with the ST (spring techniques) but the ST springs are only a 1" drop like the hotchkins/prokits so spring rate doesnt matter as much as the sportlines/dropzones/intrax springs do.

and if your thinking about cutting a lowering spring your crazy. worst thing ever... u cant cut proggressive springs... it really messes up the spring rates/ride quality. fronts are linear and are ok to cut like stockers, but the rears u dont touch. i wouldnt recomend cutting a 650/700lb lowering spring like in every brand out there when they are already enginneered to be lower with the same rate.... just cutting more will drop height substantially and not raise spring rates enough. wat u'll get is a car too low and not enough spring rate to get the wheel from pushing through the wheel well. u dont cut a lower/shorter spring with the same rate as a spring that has room to cut.

i had sportlines on my car for a yr... loved the stance and where a heck of a lot better than the 130,000 stockers. but not enough rate and seemed soft in the rear. so i went with moog 5664s i hacked off 3/4coil in the front for the same free height as my sportlines but instead of 700lb sportlines i have 875lb moogs and close to the same drop. im going with cutt moog 5665s in the rear with about 1.3" drop rear and about 180-200lb rear rate. thats better than any kit out there and has enough spring rate for the drop. got my moogs shipped for 110$ total... cheaper than any kit. and with 20min worth of work u can cut them to your own custom height.

get the springs if u just want a lowered ride its that easy... just dont expect "better/more aggressive handling" and stay away from bumps/dips/potholes/ steep driveways/speedbumps cuz u will bottom out due to lower height/not increased spring rate. still tho im not bashing u, just want u to kno what ur getting into which is what i think red dragon and 91 5.7tpi where trying to do. just looking out

i would love to kno the summit springs spring rate tho. honestly i think ud be better off cutting moogs. its simple and easy and u wont bottom out. 1/2coil up front is good for 1" drop about and just swap the rear isolators to heater hose and u got about 1" drop all around. but higher rates than the lowering kits.

howy03

iTrader: (2)

prokit and summitt springs were almost identical in rate I figured what the hell I would give them a try.I only wanted about 1 inch of drop for handeling purposes not to look slammed.I think for the money they can not be beat.I got the rates from the tech.I was going with eibach but summit told me they will basically take anything back from me for watever reason considering the money I spent.So if I dont like them come summer back they go.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

what did they tell u the rates where? pro kits are 714 front and 100-160 rear. sportlines are 700 front and 80-130 rear

also the pic of the summit and stock front springs is a huge diff. im gona have to say that the stock spring was prob a really low rate spring like the 5660 or less. maybe even a V6 spring. the spring DIA is stupid thin lol. no wonder there was a huge diff. i would say going to a stock 5662 would have been a huge diff.