mark87Z28

Once upon a time we took the car to get an alignment and we were told the alignment could not be performed because the ball joints needed to be replaced first. We purchased ball joints from one location and when we were ready to instal they would not fit into the lower control arm. We went to two other locations and measured the replacement ball joints compared to the original ball joints. Original outside diameter 2.07" aftermarket outside diameter 2.09". We had to have the outside diameter turned down .02" in order for the parts to fit..

The we took the car for the alignment and the technician is having trouble with the steering "binding" on the front left side! Here are the ending alignment specs:

Left: camber 0.4 deg | caster 2.2 deg | toe 0.00 | SAI 17.0 deg |
Right: camber 0.2 deg | caster 2.7 deg | toe -0.02 | SAI 15.8 deg |

caster should be between 4.0 to 5.0 deg

Why can't the caster be set right?
When driving in the parking lot you turn the steering wheel to full lock it feels like the camber changes, the tire contact patch is reduced, and the tires feel like they are sliding. I would hate for this to happen at high speed!

We replaced the idler arm, centerlink, and the technician said everything is good and tight. The right side camber plate is centered but the left side camber plate is slammed all the way to the inside. The manager said the frame horns could be bent....

I went to NAPA today to measure the ball joints and they were 2.09" outside diameter.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

If your frame horns are bent I'd suspect a past accident. Anything frame related cant be good if its not OEM. Check out the frame horns and get back with us. Sounds like it was in an accident and instead of getting it fixed someone just repaired what they could and sold it?

But your camber plate being slammed on that one side is probably the culprit. The bolts are probably lose or stripped and allow the car to change its camber when turning so much one way...

ACCLR8N

iTrader: (8)

I've had a spindle get bent. My daughter likes smashing her '84. It was visible when looking at the gap to the tire compared to the other side.

That half a millimeter on the ball joints explains why I've had trouble pressing replacements in. But they went.

mark87Z28

Thanks for the tips. I'll be sure to check these items. The challenge is know what to look for and where to find it.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

I would check where the steering box mounts to the frame it's a common fatigue point and if somebody did a close enough fudge it repair that could be part of your problem. Other than that I would say the best way to check and see if the car is straight is to go to a frame shop that can measure it. I have a car that had a tweaked frame and drove beautifully even though the frame was way off. The only thing that got me to bring that car in was the drivers side tire was a tiny bit off in the fender well (my friends all thought i was nuts since none of me noticed the difference, it was only about 1/4")

mark87Z28

It was the ball joint! The made in china AZ ($20.00) lifetime ball joint was binding. Installed an American made one from NAPA with lifetime warranty ($40.00) and all is good now. I left the ball joint in the freezer for a few days and it went in like it was supposed to.

naf

iTrader: (7)

Good deal. Replacement ball joints can be bought slightly oversize so that they'll fit tightly in an a-arm opening that may be worn a bit. Placing them in the freezer is a common trick. I've run into the new-frozen ball joint before, it was a Moog and I refused at first to consider it as the culprit.

Tire scrubbing near full lock is normal..just a function of the geometry. It's also normal to not get the full caster you're looking for.

Samdweezel05

iTrader: (1)

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think these cars are known for "skiding" the front tires. Mine will slide the front tires at full lock wile driving real slow. You can really hear it on gravel.

Phil

mark87Z28

The front end would slide before replacing the bad parts in the steering system, which was almost everything except for the tie rods. I'm hearing another ufo clunk when backing out with the steering wheel turned. It must be the other "new" ball joint going bad as in binding! Another investigation will be taken.

Correct me if I'm wrong but binding or sloppy ball joints can contribute to the camber change being out of whack when the car is being turned - messing up the contact patch allowing the tire to slip. I've experienced this both ways.

With the new ball joint I can lock the wheel and the car turns in an amazingly small circle compared to a 1995 Camaro. Reminder, I've replaced everything but the tie rods.

Getting the basic foundations for braking and steering in order is my goal. Everthing eventually must be changed on a 22 year old car with original equipment. It like the old fram oil filter commercial from way back. "You can pay me now or you can pay men later." Eventually the price has to be paid to get the systems right.

Words cannot describe the trial I go through in looking forward to replace the other ball joint and removing the steering box to see if I can get the adjustments right to remove steering wheel play. Not blowing the money on labor and getting improved performance is absolutely priceless and why I bother doing it at all.

Sorry for the rant. I had to tell myself why I do this.

naf

iTrader: (7)

I wouldn't expect the ball joint to 'clunk' unless it's worn sloppy. Idler arm would be the most likely culprit in my opinion but there's far more things to check: Springs properly indexed; a-arm bushings; sway bar bushings/end links; strut-spindle bolts loose, strut mounts worn/broken, brake caliper mounting bolts loose (clunk will disappear when brakes are held though).

A loose sloppy box can even have a slight 'clunk' in it, especially when it's turned a ways off center.

mark87Z28

naf you are exactly right. I'm learning as I go in this process to raise the ruin. The springs are probably sacked and all the bushings need to be replaced as well. Thanks for the tips. If I had confidence in the beast to make it to your location we would pull in for a pit stop.

mark87Z28

I just got through doing some wheel lock circles left and right in the big K lot. Everything is good but the front tires squeel like a burnout. It's like they are riding on the outer edge of the contact patch. Wonder if I should take the car for an alignment after changing the binding ball joint out.

naf

iTrader: (7)

That's normal for a turn at full lock.

mark87Z28

That's scary to me because the squeeling sound is the sound of losing traction and control. Guess you gotta know when to push it and not. This car can definitley turn in know and driving confidence is growing.

ACCLR8N

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, but you won't have the wheels cranked that far on the track or street.

irocmatt89

What did you do to that Firebird???????????????

ACCLR8N

iTrader: (8)

The black '84? Just put '87 ground effects on it after it was in an accident.

Brennan

maybe its just my dirty mind but that is funny.
anyway i thought the third gens handled best of all the fbodys? skidding when you turn the tires dont sound right, i dont think mine does it. could be wrong tho.