BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

ive got lakewood 90/10s up front they made a big difference will the 50/50s in the back help. i can get them for like $42 each. ive got umi lower control arms, relo brackets, panhard bar, 90/10s no swaybar, and skinnies up front. but still spinning. is it worth buying the drag shocks?

stage20

iTrader: (3)

it will help, but not as much as the fronts.
i would recommend the comp engeering ones for the same price.
they are adjustable.
60/40 50/50 70/30

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

do i really need adjustable ones? isnt 50/50 pretty much what everyone runs on a thirdgen?

stage20

iTrader: (3)

depending on track conditions, or tires ued, you may benefit.
you could always buy the adjustables and set them on 50/50.... and if the occasion arrises to change, you wont have to buy other shocks.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

how many people run them on here with success.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

whats the part number for the competition enginnering shocks? to fit my car?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

i run them on my car. If you're spinning then you need to check to see if the front pops up first then will help plant the rear. I can't just mash the pedal to the floor, I have to baby it out of the hole on the street and once the nose lifts, then I can floor it. What tires are you running? I ran the bfgs and the M/T drag radials and was really impressed with them on the street.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

running mt et street radials, 275/50/15s, skinnies up front. on the street i can baby it off the line get the front up and stand in it but it will spin the tires still 90% of the time. on the track i pulled the wheels but still spinning. i spun the tires to almost the 330 mark yesterday on my last pass. the suspension feels like its working but it just wont hook. i want to stand on the throttle and hook.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

does the rear still squat or does it lift when launching? a pic would help. You'll never hook 100% on the street, and your deep gear in the 700R4 doesn't help the launch issues. After a nice long burnout in 3rd gear I could almost dead hook on my buddies 275/50s that I borrowed on a prepped road, but I've been messing with my car for a long time.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

the rear is lifting now. and the front comes up. the pic i have of it launching is on my cardomain site. www.cardomain.com/ride/2197664 last page its a crappy pic because it was taken off of my tv. what rear shocks are you running? springs?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

i've run stock replacements and the lakewoods, they both seem to be pretty much the same to me. I see no launching pics though on page 9 or 10.

have you played with tire pressure? in all the M/T cars we've run from 18-25 pounds depending on what the car liked.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

ive only got the one that shows it pulling the wheels but you cant see the back of the car. so there was no difference between a set of gabriels and lakewoods? ive done little tweaks as far as tire pressure i ran it at 16 on the pass i pulled the wheels. the thing about my track is its only good for the first pass because its only prepped once.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

if your track is "iffy" on prep then put on a set of ET drags or hoosiers and have at it. They'll be light years ahead of drag radials on a finicky track unless you have perfect suspension setup for the drag radials.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

lol just sold my slicks to get radials. i dont drive the car much anymore. so i just bought some radials to drive on. thinking it was the best of both worlds. so you dont think its worth it to put on some comp engineering shocks on?

BMmonteSS

It sounds like you are hooking out of the hole but loosing traction dow track. You might try going up a hole in the relocatoin brackets. This will trade a bit of off the line traction for traction down track. I can explain this further if you would like, but it's complicated.

If you are spinning the tires with the front tires off the ground......there's no hope for you. you have all the weight on the rear tires and the coef. of friction is still not enough. You need full slicks.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

what suspension do you run in the front?
by the pics... i dont see an aftermarket tq arm either.
if you dont have one, its a must. the stock ar flexes and will lose bite, but most importantly, you can adjust your pinion angle.
every car is different, i run mine at -1.
the MT radials will hook better on the street than an iffy prepped track.
for crusing and racing, its a great tire, but a et street, or a full slick is a lot more forgiving than a radial tire. suspension and track has to be on, or the tire cant perform.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

i do have an aftermarket arm. its a jegster set at -4. the pass i pulled the wheels i still spun but not bad. the other ones its just barely getting the fronts off the ground but its chattering the tires through first gear. and a little into second. why do people run v 6 springs in the back when you want the car to lift in the back and not squat? thats just another thing i dont understand about camaro suspension. do you want the rear to lift or squat?

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

front suspension stock but 90/10s and no swaybar.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

you want the rear of the car to lift to get max traction, low hp cars actually respond to the squat though, I`d say 300wrhp and down. I ran the comp 3 ways at 50/50 and they worked okay but never really worked great until I got a trans brake, then the axle would get "stunned" and drop at the line but the body remains at the same height and actually lifts a bit after the intial "hit" it`s been 1.44 with a iron head big block 90/10`s on front w/ no front sway bar, my suggestion if you have the means are the strange stock style single adjustable replacements for the 4th gens and secondly would be the adjustable qa1`s....double adj`s are just too high unless your looking for 1.3,1.2`s and lower

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

so you are running comps in the back now or did you get rid of them? im trying to get into the low 1.5s maybe even the 1.4s but i never know where im going with this car anymore, will the comps work for me? also whats a good spring for that? front and rear.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

if the tires are chattering then more air pressure is needed if the sidewall is balling up. Bolt on some slicks and see what happens.


also....girls squat, race cars dont.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

I`m fabbing in qa1 coil overs in the rear right now, I`m taking a long road to get adjustable shock mounts in..I wouldn`t advise it, see my mini tub thread..it`s way outta hand now! The comps are best your going to get if you want a set of adjustables for under 100...if you have 300 to spend on shocks look at the strange or qa1 replacments you should be fine to the 1.4`s with those plenty of people have used them in that 60 range. springs, well stock is about all you have, it should be fine. wolfe sells adjustable spring mounts that let you use 2.5 coil over springs which you can pick any rate / length, I think they are about 75.00 I`m using a 130# 12 inch in mine on the rear and a 250# 10 coil over on the 90/10`s

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

i agree but is there a reason that people like v6 springs then? something im missing? i like the coilover setup but i really dont want to drop a grand into it. if there was a cheap way to do it id be all over it. ill probly get the comp shocks but still need an option for springs, anyone? will the eibach kit work for me?

stiletto

SLICKS

Shagwell

the idea behind V6 springs is the same be it front or rear - stored energy. The spring is a lower rate, therefore compresses more, thus more "stored" energy on the initial reaction. Our cars don't really have a major difference in V8 vs V6 rear springs, although you could sit down with the Moog coil psring catalogue and find a properly oriented spring thats bit longer and lower rate. - IMO, not worth it.

If you want to spend money on rear shocks, don't cheap out. By good adjustables like QA1, etc. The comp eng ones are ok, but have to be unbolted to change the adjustment and still don't have nearly as much control as even regular single adjustables.

As BMmonteSS said, try moving your control arms up a hole, try a lesser pinion angle. None of these things are a "set it and forget it" deal. Thats why we call it tuning. Adjustables shocks are the same, they're a tuning aid. It all has to be tuned together to work.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

-4 is a lil much on the pinion angle. you could be shocking things too hard and going into a bind, if thats even possible.
lessen the angle and see where it gets you.
id steer clear from the qa1. strange rears are the same price, and wont leak on you. they have a double adjustable as well. i think BMR or thunder had a pretty good deal on them last i checked.

BMmonteSS

Any one care to explain to me how/why pinion angle has anything to do with traction? In my mind you just set the angle to end up with the proper alignment when under load to transfer power efficiently. I can't see how it could effect traction, although I'm all ears for an explanation.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

when you have negative pinion angle the pinion forces up under load planting the rear tires. so what is a good spring for the rear or do i leave it stock same with the fronts. havent gotten an answer yet.

stiletto

id leave the stock springs in the rear and buy moroso trick springs for the front or call jason at pa and get his coil over kit

Shagwell

you do realize that there a plenty of factory suspension cars running radials standing on the bumper right? - yes, slicks are more forgiving than a drag radial, but the radials have been proven to hook harder with the proper suspension set-up.

BMmonteSS- the more pinion angle you run, the quicker/harder your suspension reacts, thus throwing the rear down faster/harder. That only works till the point of course. Too much will hit harder than the over-all combination can handle and the tires will rebound and unload. Different tq arm lengths may use a different angle for equal bite, all other factors equal.

- I unless something is set-up way wrong, excessive angle won't cause a bind, but usually causes undue wear on the u-joints(plus power loss through them). Excessive angle will also require stiffer shock valving to slow down the reaction enough to avoid rebound. - The jegster arm is short, -4 should be excessive, 2-3(neg) should be plenty with that length arm and even mild power. The more power you have, the less angle you'll need to get the same results. A lesser angle and lighter shock may get the same 60' as more angle and a tighter shock, but the lighter shock setting will allow more movement down track(could be good or bad), it all varies with the over-all tune.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

i like the look and idea of a coilover set up but is it worth it for the money?

stiletto

i know lots of people here in florida with radials, Troy Pirez, Smooky Hall, Will Stevenson. But when you dont have all the money to have to set ups these people have and are fighting radials slicks are a quick fix. My car cuts 1.37 60ft on slicks nad 1.39 on radials.

and when you have a 4.10 gear and a 275-50-15 radial which is a short tire and a 700r4 with a low 1st gears that creats a slight traction issue also.

plus he goes to the same local track that i go to and prep is not the greatest and radials are finiky, if the track is not that greatest the radials are the tire of choice

Shagwell

I agree, mostly. Money is not involved since he already has a full aftermarket suspension set-up. The money has already been spent, now it's just time and effort to find the right tune for it. Adjustable shocks would play a big factor in the tune-up though.

1.3's? you're getting there. You gonna be at the big drag radial meet at bradenton at the end of the year? - I'm hoping to have my radial car ready by then, but we'll see, I've got a lot going on.
- don't want to hi-jack the thread, better PM me

stiletto

xx11seczxx do you have an after market torque arm? if not you really need to get one of them, that is a major fix.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

got a jegster adjustable.
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Shagwell

Just wanted to note, a know radial car(not my place to say who) went 4.92(1/8, obviously) on the jegster tq arm this weekend. Factory rear spring lay-out, bolt-in adjustable shocks. He's fairly consistently in the 5.0X range. - I talked with the tuner and it seems that at his power level the short arm is less consistent than most others, but he's had a lot time to play with it.
Troy had his white/orange bomb there, flying too. There were several low 5/high 4 sec radial tq arm cars out there.
- How about a 4.82@152 on radials out of a late 80's monte carlo? Jesus! Then a 4.85 and a 4.86 to back it up.


11sec - like I said, it's gonna take some time tuning it. Quit trying to throw money at it and play with it a bit. It's not just gonna up and hook w/o some tunning. IMO - Adjustable shocks would be the only thing to do at this point.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

so what tuning would you advise. the problem is that i live an hour from the track and i usually only get about 2-3 passes due to large amounts of *****s.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

you talking about shane stack? red monte?
either way, thats a bad SOB!

Shagwell

yep, Shane Stack and his 3400# t-top monte. Jesus that thing gets it. It's not even violent, just smooth progressive power. The freaking thing just never quits spooling!

11sec - vary your control arm height, vary your pinon angle, vary your tire pressure. Try a different launch technique(foot-brake vs flash stall, foot brake rpm level, etc)- try to get by the track if/when they do a runday sunday. You'll get a lot more time. - hell, we baseline the 10.5 car in the driveway.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

goin to bradenton saturday. bithlo is just a garbage track. cant hook out there. even on funday sunday i only got 2 runs.

Shagwell

I went 1.66-1.69 60's at bithlow with a stick and 17" wheels. Buddy went 1.72 with 315/35/17's(same on mine) in his 4.6 stang stick car at bithlow. - We just had a runday sunday last weekend down here at our local (immokalee). I didn't go but my stang buddy got 6 passes, even let it cool a bit between 3 of them.

You might think about buying a spot on a track rental day. It'll cost you a bit, but you'll get some good seat time.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

i have cut as good as a 1.62 60 out there and as bad as a 2.2. that track is just to inconsistent. i would probly be very interested in going to a track rental, i dont mind spending a little money for something like that. but i dont like the $100 night at bithlo to spin.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

track is awesome in bradenton! 10.80@126.1, 10.93@125.9, 10.95@125.6 pulled the wheels about 6 inches. on a 1.52 60ft

stiletto

is that on the same ammount of nitrous? if so that is badd a$$, its amazing what track prep will do?

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

everything was exactly the same other then i put in 50/50 lakewoods. that track is crazy. went from 1.62 60ft to 1.52. on my tires the way you saw it, it ran 10.95@125 on the 325s it went 10.8@126. i only made one pass on my tires but it would have gone quicker. i made 7 passes could have easily made 10-15. made 4 in the first hour. after that i would let the battery charge for about 45 minutes. diffinatly the track to go to.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

Shagwell

very true. It all depends on the amount of...shall I say front-wheel drives that are there. I love all the morons on true street tires driving through the water and doing burn-outs....

- glad to hear it went well at bradenton. - Are you not running an alternator on a high 10 sec car? Believe me, it won't hurt much.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

its still a street car. alternator, ac, powersteering, powerbrakes, windows and locks. race weight is 3880.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

3880? good lord.

BNBZ28

iTrader: (1)

yea, shes a little on the heavy side. i want to strip some weight but dont want to lose the ac or stereo so not alot that i can do.