Josh R

iTrader: (1)

viper04, no its nothing like a sway bar. Its more like a strut tower brace for the bottom of your frame. And Irocs, I believe have thicker sway bars.

KJZ28/TA

iTrader: (1)

My brother just put an Edlebrock Strut Tower brace, TDS Wonder bar, And KYB GR2 Shocks in his mostly stock 1987 IROC Z. It feels way more confident around corners than even my friends 2005 Mustang GT.

It is Amazing how good that car feels. And since he got The TDS wonder bar I am taking the stock one and putting it in my 86 T/A.

Whats sas is that the few things he did to his IROC, he will still out handle my 78 Z28 with well over $1500 in upgrades. Springs, Koni adjustables, tubular arms, bigger sway bars, the works.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

The IROCs have stiffer springs, better stock shocks (still trash), larger sway bars, larger tires, some had wonder bars.
This is a wonder bar with my stock sway bar:

My car has the mods listed in my sig, and it will out handle my friends GSR with KONIs, after-market height adjustable springs, and aftermarket control arms - at least at high speed stuff due to his car being about 600 lbs lighter. I'm pretty sure he would have a much better chance on a tight, technical auto-x like course. Both cars have stiff suspensions and can get interesting at high speeds on rough roads, but that's easy to fix....don't go fast on rough roads.
As for over-steer under throttle out of turns- my car actually does better under throttle coming out of turns than with out at 30-50 mph. But then again, I set mine up so throttle-oversteer will compensate for the understeer most vehicles going too fast in a turn experience without throttle in a turn...if that makes sense to read.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

I purchased my IROC 3 years ago when I was 16 and with 94k on it she would burn imports and mustangs alike in the corners. She's a 88 with stock springs, bilstein shocks, bone stock front end but the components are still nice and tights. Now I've upgraded to a spohn torque arm with the rod end upgrade and tubular arm w/ a rod end at the axle and bushing to the frame as long as boxed LCA's with bushings. The car is more stable now then it was but I have the feeling the shocks are getting a little long in the tooth so hopefully this summer I'm going to replace the shocks and springs, but we'll see I have several other projects to spend time and money on first. Oh and by the way I'm running the factory 16x8 IROC mags with 245/50/16 potenza G009. A lot of people don't like those tires but other than squealing a little making tight low speed turns they're great for a daily driver, because they're as stable and predictable in the rain as on a dry day.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

I like my G009s. I have them on my winter tires. I don't like them as much as my BFG g-Force Sports in 275/40ZR17s, but they are decent tire for DD duty.
The mods you mentioned won't really tighten the ride of the car any. Shocks and springs is where you'll see a tightening of the suspension.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Mags?

JamesC

KJZ28/TA

iTrader: (1)

?????????????

v10viper04

I want in on this!!! ......Mags?

KJZ28/TA

iTrader: (1)

Must be a rare option of magnesium rims like the ones used on Ferrari race cars in the 70s.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

'Mags' is also another (less used) term for rims/wheels. It means wheels that are similar in design to our wheels (not wire wheels like on old Caddys, not Ralleys like on the 60s Camaros/Vettes, and not hub-cap covered). At least that is what it means around here. I think that's what he means.
That, and ammuniton containers such as the ones pictured.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

To me a mag wheel is one made of a magnesium alloy of some short, a racing wheel--hey, I grew up in the 60's. At any rate is probably a good idea.

JamesC

KJZ28/TA

iTrader: (1)

That is what I was thinking also.

v10viper04

except the 60's part lol

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

sorry must be a regional venacular difference. Then again since most people on here already know I'm talking about the stock 16x8s that came on the cars and also know they're made of aluminum I don't really see the issue. Maybe some people here just have a little too much free time and want stuff to complain about?


quote(The mods you mentioned won't really tighten the ride of the car any) If I was unclear in that respect let me rephrase. The aftermarket torque arm substantially improved traction in all respects both off the line and in planting the rear of the car when exiting a turn. I later swapped out the other rear suspension components which made a noticable difference in the on road manerisms of the vehicle.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

It didn't bother me in it. I think they were just having a little fun.

I know those modifications will alter the ride characteristics of the car, but for firming the ride as a whole and greatly increasing the cornering you'll need shocks/springs.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

Yeah I don't really care either but it seems to me that there has been a lot of whining over stupid turns like that on the boards lately. Yes the different parts made a small difference. We'll have to see how it handles with the spring tech drop coils and KYB GR2s and alston SFCs once all the snow is gone

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

No whining. The boards are worthless unless the info provided here is correct (and understandable for all who visit the site). Good luck.

JamesC

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Is there any way you can figure out where that article is? I'd like to see it but I wouldn't know where to look.

flaming-ford

iTrader: (7)

agree with this statement fully....... I had a girl/friend that has an 05 mustang v6 pony package car and it feels terrible around corners compared to my old f41 optioned alston frame connecters tds wonder bar edelbrock stb and kyb gr2 strut'd car.

i pulled 51 mph around a nasty curve near me and tried same in her car and hers was pushing like crazy at just over 40. Admittedly i didnt drive that car everyday and i'm sure i could got a little more out of it with a different teqnique but, still it feels no wheres near as good.

i think they feel damn good except bump steer always sucked on my old car. Never had enuff throttle to worry about coming out of a curve to hard tho (l03 sucks 4 power).

We'll c what i end up with in my new iroc after frame connectors and a buncha other little upgrades, it currently feels like complete jello. has worn kybs front n rear, new poly sway bar bushings, new balljoints, good set of rubbers n rims, wonderbar, n bmr stb. Needs bushings springs struts n shocks bad tho.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

Put some KONIs on it. That'll wake things up for you! I love mine.
I need to get my SFCs installed as well.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I got my Konis and SFCs and my car is almost there.. just gotta take care of those pesky sway bars and get a STB and I think I'm pretty set for the most part!

New2Chevy

iTrader: (11)

OK....Question for anyone who knows:

Why would I need an adjustable panhard rod, as opposed to just a solid one?

I am trying to picture why, and I cannot visualize how the suspension geometry addressed by that part would change when lowering the car.

I am assuming that the LCA's would need to be adjustable only when relocation brackets are used, so the ends can reach the newly located holes?? Right?

I am new to this car, too, and that doesn't help much.

My car is getting a new paintjob, BTW......GM Charcoal Metallic Can't wait to see it done!!

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

The rear axel may shift a bit to one side. The adjustable recenters it.

JamesC

chrisblazzer89

Where can I get a wonder bar???????

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

OE at the JY. Both TDS and Spohn, both board sponsors, carry after market versions.

JamesC

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

quote:New2Chevy OK....Question for anyone who knows:

Why would I need an adjustable panhard rod, as opposed to just a solid one?


The panhard rod is used to locate the rear axle side to side under the vehicle. That being said its length is determined at the factory based on ride height. So the panhard bar is like the hypotenuse of a triangle. If you lower the car but the panhard bar isn't shortened its like cutting down one leg of the triangle but leaving the hypotenuse the same length. In order for the triangle to be complete the bottom leg or in this case the rear axle has to extend out farther. So It will actually push the rear axle off to one side and mess with your suspension geometry. I would recomend an adjustable panhard bar with a rod end on the axle side and a polybushing at the frame to reduce both the chance of binding and vibrations and noise to the car

New2Chevy

iTrader: (11)

That makes sense.

Yes, I am definitely getting the rod end and poly bushing end combo panhard rod.

Another question:

What shocks and struts should I get if I drop the car?? Will any combo work, or should certain shocks be used with certain springs?

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

It depends on how far your going to drop the car and what the spring rate is going to be, you want the valving on the shocks to match that. I like konis personally but i've heard good things about tokicos as well.

chrisblazzer89

I have another ? should I get one aftermarket or buy one from the JY and get it painted?

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I purchased my last JY version for $5.00. Add another $2.50 for a rattle can and you're good to go (Finding one may be another story). I suddenly seem to recall a fitment issue with some of the earlier cars. Perhpas the OE won't fit your car. Check TDS/Spohn for more info.

JamesC

Benny K

iTrader: (1)

back to the original topic:

Well I dont have an IROC but a 91 Z28 L98,
now with yellow konis, pro kit, poly almost everywhere, spohn lca's, tds wonderbar, spohn adjustable panhard bar, everything else on the suspension is re-done with MOOG parts.

I work as a car mechanic and get to drive lots of new cars...well my car outhandles a lot of those new cars. I dont speak about the comfy sedans and stuff...
I just think the modern cars are the better allrounders. And when it comes to safety, they win hands down. If an unexperienced driver goes to fast in a corner he will more likely stay on the road with a modern car that has all the electronic "helpers" than with a 20 year old Camaro

per example it takes an M series BMW to outhandle a Camaro with some suspension mods, a regular 330 wont do...hehe

I am just limited with my original wheels/tire combo...

Dr G

Absolutely right. A lot of guys now are only used to the relatively safe and 'friendly handling' of modern cars. A lot of people can't handle a car that doesn't have all the electonic aids like TC, ESP, ABS etc. Mind you I do think a thirdgen would be better with ABS!

Seriously though, most well driven thirdgens, that are well maintained, with a few mods should outrun and outhandle most modern cars.

atc3434

iTrader: (4)

I'll vouch for Tokico's, I have their lowering springs and 5 way shocks on my car. Its a good drop, without being excessive. The spring-rates are pretty aggressive, but thats to be expected for a lowered car. From a handling perspective they work wonderful. The suspension under my ride has a very good dynamic, its super responsive, but dramatically unstable, you won't get into trouble without knowing it first.

I agree with you guys, any well maintained Camaro equipped with the IROC or better suspension is a pretty strong performer in the handling, with more capability than a lot of "performance" cars of today. A lot of people would wrap themselves around tree's with these cars, no ABS or Trac Control to drive for them. Handling and stability pretty much directly contradict each other, you can only have so much of one before the other starts to suffer.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

I would like ABS sometimes, but I like not having the other electronic aids. If you are a good driver and have a good feel for the car and its capibilities, you don't really need them and can be a hinderance.
I like the guy who bought the Ferrari F50 and had the ABS, TC, etc removed by the factory... lol.

hgffrank

My 90 Base Firebird pulled .94g's with aftermarket wheels/tires and everything else stock.

My 83 TA I'm sure will do better than that since I swapped the same wheels/tires, and put on 2" drop springs, frame strengthening mods, new performace struts/shocks on it and replace all bushings. Hoping to hit 1.0 g. thats my goal.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

yea i'll try and look for the mag that did the test with the IROC... could take a while ive saved about 8 yrs worth including GMHP,CC, and super chevy

ive heard good things about tokio... i was gona get them but i went with GR2/gas-a-justs bc of budget. idef wanna get the Gr2's outa there when i do my engine swap(not that ive had a prob with the gr2's) i just want a stiffer shock with my sportlines. i was thinking KYB AGX bc of there adjustability? anyone have any experiences

u cant really compare a 20yr old 3rd gen with a modern car... lol the new cars can basically drivethemselves. still a 3rd gen will win hands down. just my liking... i like knowing how my cars gona react and they fact that im able to control the car and not some electronic device.

3rd gens can get over 1.0g wiht good suspension upgrades.

Josh R

iTrader: (1)

did you test it yourself? The rule is it needs to hold the g's for 3 secs at least. Like driving the fastest you can around a big circle. Cause a car can usually pull more g's when they are just thrown into the turn, but it only lasts a sec.

IROCmonkey

i agree, most people today never learn how to DRIVE.

lol I drove a loaded BMW 5 series one time, pretty nice car in all, but I laid into it off a light and broke the rear loose. I reacted to the wheel spin a fraction before the TC did. Felt awesome to "beat" the computer

but there are times I want the rear to get loose (like uturns on those pesky narrow roads, with my tractor trailer size turn radius!)

IROCs hands down even in stock trim (like new), are still a great handling car 20+ years and going.

Daniel U

i agree, most people today never learn how to DRIVE.

Very true!

but there are times I want the rear to get loose (like uturns on those pesky narrow roads, with my tractor trailer size turn radius!)

I can relate to that!

Jason E

My RS, with fresh KYBs, a TDS Wonderbar and SFCs, Edelbrock STB and fresh BFG KDWSs handles well, but not as well as my 4th gen. Some of that may have to do with older bushings, but I've had 2 mechanics look at the front end and say the bushings look fine.

It corners flat and hard, but the steering vagueness kills me. There is no road feel at all. And on the highway, the wandering when it hits grooves in the road drives me nuts. The front end is tight...it just isn't up to new-car standards in terms of feel. Recirculating ball cars are like that though...rack and pinion cars always feel tighter in terms of steering feel.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

I know what you mean about steering feel. Mine is a little numb, but over the years, I've grown accustomed to it. I need to replace my steering box, I'm sure that would help matter.
I recently test drove a LS1 4th gen. The steering was much better. But, I know my car would spank that particular one in the twisties.... 160,000 miles, ALL stock lol.
I've hung with modified LS1 cars (at TA and a SS) on the mountains before, and they were trying to get away from me. The TA had Hotchksis lowering springs and front KONIs, the SS had lowering springs. I had lowering springs, PHB, and rear sway bar. Everything else was stock. Given my power disadvantage and how I always reeled them in on the turns, I was very pleased with myself. When it got straight, they pulled away, but on these roads, straight is a foreign concept.

palric

iTrader: (1)

depends on the car of course. A t-top car will flex and cost you alot in a slalom. A hardtop car will flex alot less. I've had both.

The 1LE cars rated .92 from the factory. Typical factory IROC's were .89 or .90 depending on the source. I have never read of an IROC getting a .78

easiest short term fix to get an IROC to handle? get some really sticky rubber 180-200 UTOQ range. it won't last more than a summer but hey it will upp the fun meter a few rungs