customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

took me over a week to do, 12+ hours a day including my entire spring break, including dissasembling the entire front suspension in that freak hail/snow storm we had with nothing more than a drop light lol.already had true duals but needed more ground clearance wit the sportlines. already had poly done to everything but what i list now. stock stuff(struts/shocks) were shot and i actually had a snapped coil in the front passenger side. already had custom thru floor subframes(by me) handmade tubular LCA's and panhard rod, wonderbar and poly except from below. before and after pics etc the drop was really nice and the ride is even better, car is less harsh with all the new suspension but handles a million times better than the stock stuff.
suspension....
KYB gr2 struts
poly Aarm bushings
Sportline springs
KYB gas a just rear shocks
UMI LCA relocation brackets
UMI adjustable panhard rod
poly rear sway bar bushings and endlinks
moog heavy duty tierods
edelbrock tierod links
poly tie rod boots
poly trans mount
poly torque arm bushing
POR15 everything i could

also built new 3" true dual mandrel bent exhaust with Xpipe off of the headman longtubes, as well as notched the stock subframes for exhaust clearance and did billet servos,boost valves, deep pan, racing trans fluid but wont post those pics unless wanted. i have more but im not gona post them all unless wanted...

enjoy

Norwood

iTrader: (1)

well, are you gonna show us some pictures or are you just teasing us?

5678TA

i second that

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

im trying lol but it wont let me upload

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

here are some
before i believe

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

more before but the last is with the new rear installed, all rear shocks where shot, endlinks had to be cut off, becasue they where bent and i had to trim the new endlinks bc the ones i got from summit that where for our cars where too short so i had to trim a half inch off the inner steel tube spacer. springs, shocks, relocation brackets etc all installed...before painting

ps ignore my dad trying to look like he helped on the rear lol

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

more, POR15'd Aarms poly already installed....that was the worst part getting those aarms off, rubber bushings where shot!
second pic u can see the broken front passenger spring, thirs is the height diff in front springs, rears where the same

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

new tierods and edelbrock sleeves

new exhaust

new front ride height, this pic doesnt do it justice, its a big diff, the car is so low to the ground that wheni stand next to it its like a gocart, also makes it a hell of a lot easier to get into it being so low, i feel the diff everytime i get into it

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

these do it more justice, my driveway isnt exactly flat but theve only been on for 3 days and they havent settled yet so when i they do and im in a parking lot better ones will be taken

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

last ones lol

another pic of the car lowered cant really see

2nd...a year ago of the tubular LCA's and panhard rod i made with poly bushings

3rd...back in the day with the front sway bar beaten rubber verses poly and part of the TDS wonderbar

my car came with the 34mm really large front sway bar and i guessed wit the 24mm rear sway bar.all in all it was a pain in the *** but now the car drives amazing, amazingly better handling when i thought it was good before but also a softer ride....actually kinda scares me lol

HPE

Very nice looking. I would not go as far as saying 'super low', mine is about 2" lower than you have (I have no gap in the front fender between the tire and fender). You should be a good height for not rubbing the front fenders with those rate of springs. Make sure you left your factory front bumpstops on -or-if they are not in good shape buy new ones. he Sportlines are softer as you stated and they actually rely on the factory bumpstops for not grounded the tire into the fender well.As for why it corners better but feels softer? The new springs are shorter free height but are barely thicker wire and have more active coil area than the originals you have next to them. This makes them softer due to a less agressive wire coil angle and more coils. The car naturally sits lower so the cg (center of gravity) is lower and the new shockss help control and slow down body roll better than your old shocks did- so the springs are softer for overall ride as you described.Nice looking car.

1989formula355

iTrader: (2)

looks good. <86ta> should take a look at this thread.

ssdeuce

Looks great man!

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I forget, are the sportlines 1", or the 1.6/1.3's?

I see them are 17" rims. Is your tire combo the same DIA as factory 16s?

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

grab a shot like this,


I also have the Sportlines, but mine doesn't seem as low as others I have seen.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

yea the sportlines are 1.6"/1.3", yea i knew the coils are shorter ive done alot of research on all the springs out there, but bc of the true duals i cant drop it too much, as far as 2" lower than mine thats gotta have no clearance lol but i bet it looks great/rides even better...u must be using airbags, drop spindals or some super short spring, got any pics?

i'll try to grab a shot from the side, yea the rims are SLP 17x8 with no offset for our cars wrapped in 245/40/17 Nitto555 ZR's

Zepher... looks good man, yea mine doesnt seem all that low in the rear, our fronts look close but my rear has gotta have a inch more height than yours...idk why it doesnt sit like urs or like others ive seen but it gives me the rake look that i like...

also anyone kno a alignment shop that will align my car? lol i tried today but my guy said that its too low and he cant do it. i live in essex county in NJ. he says ineed a pit bc my car is so low and the exhaust is low too

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Looks like the sportlines may be the way I go then. Just wish the rear was a little stiffer spring.

Mine currently sits as low as HPE's. Mine is tucking factory tire combo on no adjustment. I rubbed a hole in the plastic liner in about 5 miles.

HPE

</p>

I am only posting this because you asked, Its not a Firebird obviously. You can see in thie poicture that my tire top is hidden up inside higher than my fender lip on the front
This is a very light nosed V6 car with a tad over 800lb springs up front- It has never rubbed due to lightnes and stiffness. BTW those are 245/50/16 tires and rims on there, not 17's or 18's. Fender lip from ground is 24 3/4 inches if you want to measure yours for reference.

http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...752_2_full.jpg

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

HPE... wat springs are u running? especially in the back? urs are lower than mine. the sportlines are only 700lbs in the front. and 130 out back i believe. looks good tho. im prob gona look into a stiffer spring out back as well, just not right now

HPE

I have so SSS blue coil racing springs in there. 800lb 13inch fronts trimmed to 12.5inch free height. the rears are old (they do not make them anymore progressive SSS springs) which I opted for based on my particular setup. this car is very customised and tons and tons of work done to it. It hardly has a factory part on it unless that factory part has been customised also
This car has pulled a 1.07g on street tires and a 102ft 60-0 so it performs the job also


More on the car here : http://www.cardomain.com/ride/518752/7

mike1986fyrbird

Car looks good.

It will sit about 1/2"~ lower in the back if you remove the rear spring isolators and use a peice of hose on the last coil to isolate it from the body like many people do. The result is a thinner isolator like the thin ones used on the front springs.

Kind of a bad pic but it gives you the idea.

Schultzy89GTA

Nice looking bird! Good work.

-Schultzy

Dale

iTrader: (12)

24 7/8" on 235/55/16 here. Unknown spring rates. I got stuck on a speedbump earlier, had to back it off, 5point turn around, and take a different route. Yea, I was that "loved" idiot in rush-hour traffic today.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (15)

oh definitely, wtf i really want to do it! that looks great. but im still concerned about the road conditions here in NJ one day soon i will be lured over to the lowered side

what you dont like the 4x4 look?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

yea i was thinking of doing that but i was afraid i would loose that rake look that the higher rear gives me. looks good tho. HPE... thats all i do i never replace stock, u seem to know alot about springs and thats the one thing im not too fluent with, could u tell me wat a good rear spring would be that would give me a higher rate than 130lbs, the right diameter for our rearends and is the correct lowered ride height or just a spring that would work that i could trim wit a cut off wheel. thanks
haha yea your car sits pretty high. looks nice tho, would look sick if u lowered that wit the sport lines or a real nice coil over kit, 86ta...u live in jersey u know any good alignment shops that will do a lowered car? i live in essex county northern NJ

HPE

That had to be a big sped bump Jay. I barely kiss normal parkinglot ones if I go a little fast into them and I get that initial drop onto the trans crossmember- but if I am careful I generally do not hit anything. I will ocationally hit a very bad driveway crown but I set up the Spohn trans mount to glance over them by welding and grinding the side brackets into shape for runner guards. This is the only place it will contact- no exhaust hitting at all because I custom fitted my SFC's to be able to raise the catalytic convertor area so no contact. I also welded extention brackets to my Spohn Xmenber and have 6 bolt mounts in the chassis rather than the factory 4 so this area is further strengtheed and will hold up as a brush guard.

Funny story- I came across some new massive speedbumps that were put in a local strip mall wil frequent a few years back. It was about a 100+* day and the Camaro SHREADED the new speed bump they were so large (4 of us in the car). The parking lot ended up taking them out after a few weeks anyways due to lots of complaints about their massiveness. In the mean time we just drove the Camaro right through that same spot and never hit again.

HPE

Mine does sit a tad higher in the rear when stagnant, but once I get into it it does come down about 1/2 inch- the Koni's are gas charged and raise it slightly with noone in it compared to the Tokico's blues I used to have on it Years back.

As for spring info- every car is different based on your car's options and weights. Everyone things the WS6 cars are the snitz for springs but the truth is they needed the stiffer springs to hold the extra weight those things weighed. Now take the WS6 springs and put them in a lighter package car and they were more performance oriented. Rear springs are a 5 inch dia 'pigtail' coil. as for your 130lbs? It is all in proportion to what you have on the fronts also, combined with your damper rates and swaybars to get the proper all around balance of your car's particular chassis weight to begin with. no two cars are the same unless you are talking to new identical cars off the assembly line. With that said, 130lb linear springs is still on the light side- 175 is getting into the roadrace performance range but you'd better have the fronts to match AND the shocks to handle them.

You can indeed trim your spings slightly for desired ride height but I never recommend more than taking off about 3/4 of a coil loop max of you should just buy a shorter 130 rate spring to begin again with. You can buy a 130 rate spring for example in both a 14 " free height and a 12 " free height , etc to start with based on your desired ride height. But lets say you want the car just a tad lower with the 14" spring in there, You can trim off a 1/2 coil and it may make it a 12 3/4 " free hight and maybe up the rate to about a 140 for aproximation.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

hm interesting.... well its a 87 firebird formula 350, fiberglass good and wing, all smog equipment removed, everything that had to do with AC was removed, front bumper support off, custom fiberglass ram air...super light, every part of the rear seats removed...umm yea and nothing in the cargo, i thought these cars weighed 3100 wit no driver from the factory so wit all this im at 2950-3000 curb weight it no driver conservative, im 180lbs. as far as the shocks go i got gas a just rears, and the sprotlines are 130lb rear the ws6 is i think 105lbs rear, and the front sportlines are 700lbs. so wat would u think would be a good lb spring in the rear to match wat i got...down the road i'll be gettin racing seats and maybe drop the weight alil more.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

It didnt appear to be. But I had never taken my old truck down this road so I wasnt sure. I did have another person in the car which is odd for me.

I shredded a few speed bumps, road dots, and the likes in the old truck. Its fun to do that when you plan, its not fun if you werent planning it.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

the first two are for someone who wanted pics of the hood, the last is the side view i promised. idk if u can see the key mark someone did 3 months after the new paint job

BlkBird408

Looks real good! I cant wait to get my sportlines on!

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Looks good. What power options does the car have to weight it down? Windows, locks, etc.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

eh it had everything, it was fully loaded with every option from the factory since it was the formula 350 tpi, power locks and windows, AC, blah blah, ive read that the power windows and locks are only a few pounds, i think it was on this site, if u look under the curb weights in the tech section or the info on the years of the camaro it will tell u all the weights of the accessories, i think its like 2lbs for the locks and 4lbs for the windows, ive taken the motors out to replace something and they are pretty light. the AC equipment is like 45 pounds or something so that was the first to go. i just roll down the windows and punch it works just fine

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Thanks. Reason I was asking is the rear springs that are in my car now I had in my old car. It was bare bones with no options. I put them in this new car, and it sits lower. New car has power everything, plus vert.

HPE

Sorry but, you are not even close. The 87 Formula 350 5-speed 'unoptioned' (meaning bare essentials) weighed in at 3383 lbs and the auto trans added 102 more lbs over the 5 speed which started you at 3485 without AC and before you stipped some weight with the fiberglass and few other things you mentioned above. you have shaved about 40lbs with the ram air hood (flat raceweight hood is 50lbs saving, yours is a supported ram air hood at maybe 40 lbs saving being slightly generous), smog stuff is probably about 40-45lbs if we are talking smog pump also, bumper support (steel) I would guess 40 lbs (my alum one weights something around 15 if I recall- I know I could do one arm curls all day with it.), rear seats are around 20 lbs- they are basically foam and fabric with very small brackets, and nothing in cargo-I assume you do not have the spare in there? if true another 50 lbs with spare and jack.3485-40-45-40-20= 3340 total - (50 for spare = 3290 range). Then if you have added stuff like SFC's, larger diameter rims weight several pounds more each, dual exhaust, wonderbar,etc- they all add up to gains.I have a very light V6 with lots of exotic very lightweight parts but I still probably weight in the same or more than what it weighed from the factory and I must certainly be over 3100 myself. There is just no way you are sitting at 3k or under with a V8 unless it is stripped and aluminum heads,etc.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

2" lower... that would be extreme to say and your picture doesn't look any lower to me but don't take that to offense as i know all the numberous things you've done to make it handle like it's on rails and be as low as possible. both cars look low and good though. still love the 80's paintjob as it never gets old seeing it, how many times are they going to make you reregister hpe?

you go any lower then a sportline ride for the street and it is extremely impracticle my air ride sits the frame just a few inches off the ground which has the fenders covering the tops of the rims and while it looks awesome it's un driveable. good work on the project though, car looks nice!

if you want to see super low cars or the lowest cars possible just look up many of the members here with air ride. can't get any lower..

csreid

I would be out with a vengeance...

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

yea im still pretty upset about the key mark and then some idiot on my street backed into the front bumper and cracked the paint on the front bumper which is beggining to peel >:O

HPE....thats weird bc on this site they said that the 87 formula 305 wieghed 3400 roughly and the formulas were suppose to be the lightest i thought, since they where the only thing light enough to battle the mustangs, yet the camaros are lighter than the firebirds? it also said that a camaro coupe curb weight is 3105. so i figured the formula having no body kit etc would weigh less...or close to that? ive also heard from other memebers that the formula was the lightest and around 3100 curb wieght wit no driver. thanks for clearing that up, i wanna get this thing weighed now lol.

HPE

I just know the 2.8 V8 is almost 240lbs lighter weight than its V8 counterpart.There is more weight to the firebirds also with the headlight motors, most had nicer interiors that weighed more and were just basically alot more luxurious than the Camaro's were- especially the fully loaded GTA's weighing in at about 3700lbs.



As for my cars weight, I really have no clue where it sits at right now. What I have done to both strip weight and add weight I will try and list but this may be a long list so I will just really stick to the more major things.
On the front to back- Aluminum bumper support, some bracketry cut off and air passages freed up. Aluminum Becool Radiator & fan setup. Alum front hubs, hats, and calipers. alum WP. alum strut mounts. Skinny wife (joke). stainless headers. no smog pump. alum valve covers. Alum tierods. lightweight Momo seats and brackets (both seats and brackets weigh less than one factory non power recliner). 9" Vigilante convertor. 4lb cabron fiber driveshaft. No cat. custom lightweight Stainless Works Ipipe muffler (no heavy rear standard f-body dual exhaust setup and bulky muffler- saved about 40 lbs of the rear with just thgis setup alone between my old catback setup and my new custom made setup) Moser lightweight drilled 26spline axles. Chromemoly rear suspension links (LCA's, etc). Alum diff cover, tank heat sheild removed, no spare tire or jack, Lightweight rear brake assemblies with alum calipers and bracketry, thats basically it iI think.

I think I have lost about 225 lbs with the above mentioned part replacements over the factory stuff. I have then probably gained it right back with SFC's, my couple of alum lateral brackets, WB, STB, Spohn TQArm, and the dynamat I installed all inside the entire car.

HPE

No offense taken Jeff - I am a man of facts and I can see clearly in his picture that he has a 2&quot; gap between the tire and the fender. I do not. If these cars were sitting next to each other it would be very easy to see I am sitting much lower and here is the proof of the stagnant height of my same front side pic at 24 3/4&quot; off the ground. From what I see mostly wioth lowered 3rd gens, they are always in the 26.5&quot; range or higher even after they are 'lowered'.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...157altered.jpg

http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...2_134_full.jpg

Not as low as yours can go though- that you and I both know is undisputable. I am curious to see what you do with this new car you are building- you have good taste I must commend on the appearance of your Kandied Z28. I have alway said that is a beautiful car you built.

Dean
ps- My Camaro is getting in bad shape and is getting in desparate need of a paint job pretty soon- its getting thin. She still photographs well but is in bad shape up close in person. I am still thinking a sceme of Lambo Orange and Lambo Pearl White this time around. I have other much bigger problems right now though with my truck situation.