83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

For street (and some possible track) handling.

Ok, lets hear thoughts/opinions/facts, what you think and why.

WRT to specifics, this is for a WAY overpowered 3rg gen (meaning that it really needs more tire out back to be have any fun driven hard). It sees a lot of hard street use, the occasional autox and the rare track outing. Right now it spends most of it’s time on the street on a set of oem 16x8 pontiac “high tech” rims with some z rated 245/50/16 rubber. It’s not a bad combination but the oem wheel/tire combination is super heavy (in the mid 50# range) and you can really feel it, the front seems pretty acceptable WRT to road adhesion, but it definitely needs more tire on the rear. I like the feel of 15’s better (235/60 and 255/60’s on 15x8’s both ride better and seem to stick better under most use), and when I used to be seriously into the autox thing I got a chance to run some 15 and 16” hoosiers, same compound, same height and width and actually ran almost 2 seconds better on the 15’s.

What I’ve considered:

15’s:
235/60 on an 8” and 295/50 on a 10”
275/50 on an 8” (maybe 8.5”, I don’t think wider will fit on the front in a 15) and 295/50 on a 10”
225/60 on 8” and 275/50 on 9-10”
the problem with all the 15’s is the availability of real, high performance tires

16’s:
245/50 all around
255/50 all around
245f, 255r
245f, 265/50 rear (the 265/50’s pop up in good tires everyonce in a while, right now the only ones that I know of are the BFG’s, not that good)
the real problem with 16’s is that there is a real lack of tire sizes, if I could get a high quality 265 or 275 50 16 on a 9” or so rim then this would be a serious consideration. I don’t really believe that I can get enough tire on the back with 16’s.

17’s:
245/45 or 255/40 F and 275/40 or 315/35 R
275/40 F & R
275/40 F and 315/35 R

finally a good choice of good tires, but… 315’s are borderline since it looks like they’d have to be put on some 10 or 10.5” rims to fit well on the back. 275/40’s on the front make me nervous, I’m worried that this thing will chase every rut on the road making it an unpleasant driver, I’ll give up a little ultimate grip for better road feel. I’m not really thrilled with my 4th gen and 275’s all around since it seems that I get some of that rut following and the car never feels like it handles as well as a 3rd gen on smaller tires. REALLY don’t want to run spacers on the back which limits wheel choices.

I _really_ don’t want to go bigger then 17’s, I think that in most cases their slip angles get tight enough that they can’t be driven as fast by all but the very best drivers and the ride gets pretty crappy pretty fast. I really wouldn’t seriously consider 17’s if I thought that I could do what I wanted and get good, high performance tires in 15’s or 16’s.

RArnold

lots of people reading your post but no responses -- i guess a lot of people would like to know the same things youre looking for----arent there any tire people out there with access to references that would help?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Well, I spend some of my time working at a speed shop and have a better idea of what is out there then most and still don’t have a really good answer… To be honest, if I could find some decent to good (meaning sticky, responsive) 15”, preferably Z rated rubber in large sizes this would be a no brainer, I’d slap some 235/60 and 295/50’s on the car and be done with it…, that would be lighter then the other choices and put plenty of rubber down on the road for reasonable handling. The problem is that as far as I can tell, that rubber or anything close doesn’t really exist. The size selection in good rubber really doesn’t exist in 16’s and most 17’s are designed to be used on vehicles using newer offsets which don’t play nice with something like a 3rd gen. I’m willing to accept that there isn’t a good, reasonably priced answer, but I’d still like some input about what the best compramize happens to be.

Red|ine

furthermore, can i fit a 10" wide in rear without sticking out the side, and which offset?

Dewey316

Mark, welcome to the thing that will drive you nuts.

I ended up going with 17's just so I could get good tires in a size that is readily available. a 16x10 would be a great choice, but I'm only aware of competition tires in sizes that fit well. (hoosier A or R compounds)

If you are really wanting to put some size down, you are probably going to go with 17" to get a good Z rated tire. you can get rubber for 15x10's, but you end up with a piece of junk like raidal t/a's or something like them.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Actually, WRT to the 15” tires, the Yokohamas and firestone tires available in those sizes get pretty good reviews, much better then the radial TA’s. I suspect that with those in a 235/60 (8” rim) and 295/50 (10” rim) I’d be fairly to very satisfied with the handling and straight line on the street as well as the ride, but I’m not sure if they’d be even close to something that I could just take to the autox and have some fun with. The thing is that so far I’ve been happier with some REALLY CRAPPY, 255/60/15’s and 235/60 on some 8” wheels then some 245/50/16 really good rubber on the stock 16’s, the 15’s were every bit as good in the turns, much better in a straight line and in the rain (every set of 16’s or 17’s that I’ve had have been just barely tolerable to awful in the rain and straight line). I’m also a little worried that they would look a little too old school for my taste (otoh, I am kinda old school as far as that goes, I hate the way 18’s look).

I have seriously considered 16x9’s or 16x10’s and race rubber, but I don’t know how long I would tolerate that on a driver. I did run Nitto 555r’s on my WS6 for 28k miles, and was very happy with them/would do it again, but my take there is that the nitto DR’s are really a lot more street then other race rubber.

So what size 17’s did you go with? What tires? Do you think that I’d be happy with that combination (based on my descriptions so far) or not?


Red|ine, my $.02: I don’t see any point at all in going bigger then about 245s on a stock or near stock, road going f-body, besides maybe appearances. Unless you’ve got a good deal of power to harness or are doing some serious road racing/autox in a heavy f-body, bigger tires are just going to slow you down.

That being said, 365 per tire/wheel will buy you a decent wheel/tire if you choose something that is available in a BS/offset that fits on the car, and as I’ve said already, most of the 17’s and larger are sized with 4th gen/vette offsets which will require spacers and break the bank on your deal

Dewey316

Mark, I haven't gotten the 17 mounted yet. I just got a set of 4 C5 17x9's, I haven't picked my tires yet. I'm still trying to descide between the Toyo RA-1's, Nitto 555RII, and Kuhmo MX. But my car is not a huge powerhouse, so I'm a little more concerned with the handling. I need to get a size that had some selections in the high-performance catagory. I do some auto-x's and OT/HPDE events, so I also need something capable of pulling duty on track, and also being able to drive on the streets. I plan to keep the 15's around, and mount some ET Drags, or the like on them for when I'm at the strip.

formula_k

Hi, I'm new to the site and I didn't want to start a new topic for something you guys were already talking about lol. So anyways, I just bought a 1989 Firebird Formula, and I defintely want wider tires on it. What are the widest you can fit all around without rubbing? would 255/70/15's be too big? Also I want to buy some Weld 96-series wheels and I imagine you guys would know what size to get to fit those tires. Thanks a lot!!

Red|ine

Yeah, i've got the exact same question, just on my 83 camaro... whats the biggest tires thatl fit without worrying about rubbing?

soulbounder

I do not believe the 255/70R15 would even be close to fitting. That's a mighty tall tire for an f-body. You can go pretty wide without rubbing (~9 inch rim), and even more if you are willing to do a little body/frame tweaking. It'll also depend on tire size. Here's what to do: figure out what kind of stance you want your car to have and let us know. I would guess a drag racing stance because of the tall tire and Weld's but I'd like to be sure. As far as info on the Weld's, pick up a phone and call them. I'm sure you can get a much better answer from them than from us. And in the case the Weld knows nothing, call a distributor. For some reason they always seem to know more about the product than the manufacturer themselves.

CrazyHawaiian

I've experimented with a bunch of different combinations ranging from 15's through 18's. Its not really fair to compare the different diameter setups because they were all different make/model tires, and I didnt weigh any of them or do any type of timed performance tests. All I can say for sure is that road handling feels much better with the smaller sidewall tires. The 17's and 18's felt better than the 15's and 16's in hard cornering situations, they were more stable feeling probably due to less flex. And of all the tires I've tried the Potenza S-03 is the best by far. I'm running those on my 18's in 245/40/18 and 275/35/18 and in my opinion they are the best setup for what I wanted. But you have different goals so its probably not the right choice for you. First off weight is a concern so right away that eliminates the bigger wheels (wouldnt make any sense) so 18's are out and 17's are questionable. But then when it comes to tires for 16's you really limit yourself like you said, so 17's probably better choice in that respect. 15's have good choices of widths but not for smaller sidewalls. And you dont wanna run spacers so its gonna have to be custom fit. So a custom fit lightweight 17" wheel with custom width is probably what you want. You get no spacers, weight of a smaller diameter wheel, and the tire selection to run wider tires with smaller sidewalls. Its gonna cost an arm and a leg but it would work out good.

formula_k

Hmm, I want a beefy muscular stance, but I want a balanced stance too, if that makes any sense. I want more of a straight track stance than a road track stance. Something kind of like that lol.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Huh, ok, some conversation on the topic.

First, answer some questions:
- 275 50 15’s will fit on the back with no problems. I’ve posted some pics of a set of 275 50 DR’s (think much wider then most other same sized tires) on the back of my formula in a few other threads on this board. They will fit on 0 offset wheels (they’ll be right at the edges of the wheel wells, _I think_ that they stick out a little too much), or with roughly ½” offset in without any modifications
- 255/70/15’s will be about 29” tall, and fairly narrow (about a 10” crossection on an 8” rim with about 8” of tread). It will fit on the back with a stock ride height, you’ll need wheels with a slight inwards offset (0 offset will probably hit the lips), but you may have to do a little hammering in the inside front of both wheel wells and possibly on the middle of the back (spare tire lump) of the passenger side, but nothing really bad. I’ve run 275/60/15 DR’s (actually measured 28.5” tall and about 12” wide) on ½” offset rims on the back with almost no issues. I did get a little bit of rubbing in the areas described, but it was so minor that it didn’t leave any marks on the tires.
- _I think_ a 10” wide rim will fit under the rear wheel wells, totally tucked without hitting anything. I haven’t actually done it, seen one or even seen pictures of one that looked tucked in correctly, but with some careful measuring it does look like it would fit, with no or minor work to the inner fenders. This is just like that I haven’t been able to find a picture of a 295/50/15 on the back of an f-body totally tucked under the fenders, but when I finally tried myself I did manage to get a 295/50/16 (YES, SIXTEEN) under there, tucked in (BTW, my car is probably lowered a little over 2”, so getting at tire 28” tall and that wide under it without any rubbing is a big deal). I did post pics of that in another thread also.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

My sanity has long been in question… no worries there.



huh.. I thought that all the 17” C5 wheels were 17x8.5… really a bit on the narrow side for some 275/40’s.



the particular car in question is getting a 9” moser and there’s enough goodies in the wings to either make about 800hp or imbed the crank in the pavement. That’s the reason that I’m leaning towards a much larger tire size in the back. That and the stud requirements to mount a tire that will hook that up at the track mostly precludes me running spacers back there.



That’s the thing here, this car sees some track and autox time and a bunch of street time and since I don’t really intend to be _that_ competitive on handling circuits, I figure that my street tires and “handling” tires could be the same set. I just want something that will not embarrass me.

I know what will work and fit for dragstrip use, and that will not keep me happy on the street, so there isn’t much of a point in wondering about straight line style tires on the street. For that matter, if I feel like having that look for a while It’s easy enough to take one of the sets of big DR’s or dirt track tires (DOT legal) that I have floating around, slap them on the back and put the 215/65/15’s on the front on matching rims and go for it.

At the time I started this thread, I was basically thinking like burnt macadamia nut boy was… that I’m going to probably have to settle for 17’s on this thing. 2 things have changed that thinking since: first, I drove my 97 WS6 TA for almost a week straight (275/40/17 on 17x9’s all around) and hated it. I just don’t see the performance advantage there, they do “feel” more responsive but do not actually act or actually handle better, and are totally unforgiving of any problems with the road surface, weather…. Second, I don’t know that I really believe that I can get a wheel that will hold a 315/35 correctly in the rear wheel well without spending big $$$ and modifying the inner fenders a lot. I could do it with some custom 17x9.5’s (seems like a lot of the GN guys “get away with” that setup) but I don’t think I’d ever be happy with it. (if someone has pics of 315’s on 10, 10.5 or 11” rims on a 3rd gen I’d love to see them)

The fact is that 17’s just feel heavy, and the 17’s that I’m comparing things to are the WS6 wheels that I have that are about as light as a streetable wheel/tire in that size is going to be (42-44lbs each).

At this instant, I’m either swaying back to the 15’s with 235/60 and 295/50 on wide wheels (maybe minilite/panasport knockoffs) for that “trans am racer” look, or suffering with the current crap that I’ve got on my super HEAVY, stock formula rims. I suspect that at some point I’m just going to get tired of the 16’s and send them up in smoke like I did the last set (actually left ½” deep ruts in the asphalt… it was fun, and no, I’ll never grow up)

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

heh, anyone need a set of tires

Red|ine

hmph, welp.

Ive been shopping for new wheels a while now and cant find any rims wider then 8 inches, tireracks got 10, im looking for a 9, or 9.5

Prefferably an agressive looking rim, like the american racing torqs, 15 or 16, if it fits.. any ideas?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Well, the answer is a no brainer if you’d be happy with 16” rims. The only tire sizes available in 16’s that are appropriate are 245/50, 255/50 and 265/50 (not sure on this one, BFG used to make them, they disappeared for a couple of years and now are suddenly reappearing in the catalogs… maybe the 275/50/16 will come back also). 245’s in the front, any of the sizes in the rear and you’re all set. That being said, all you’re looking for then is a set of 16x8’s. ARE makes the TT2 in a 16x8 with an 8mm backspacing that looks and fits well on a 3rd gen.

15x10’s are another story. If I could borrow one for a couple of hours, preferably with 6” or more BS to measure/try then I could tell you exactly what will and what will not fit. You can get most ARE wheels from their custom shop in custom backspacings, but most of their rims are not available with more then 6” backspacing in a 15x10. That _may_ be PERFECT, or it may be slightly too little for the back, I couldn’t say for sure without again, measuring something to get a refrence (for that matter, ANY 10” wide rim with 6” or more of BS would give me a good idea, anybody local have a 10" rim that I can borrow?).

Red|ine

hmm, ARE? google dosent seem to bring much up, nor are tt2, or tt2... they have a catalog or website?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

ARE- American racing
TT2- torque thrust II

Red|ine

heh, cool, thanks

Red|ine

seeing as i have no idea what fits, would be 3.75-5.25 be better then the 3.0?

CrazyHawaiian

According to Andris the max backspacing in the rear is 5.85 inches. I dunno if this involved BFH modification or that was maximum with no modification needed. I'm running 5.5 inches on a 9.5 inch wide wheel and there is room for more wheel. There are a few guys on these forums running the 17x11 ZR1 wheels out back with 315's and adapters. I've never sat down to do the math on a 11 inch rear wheel, but if it can fit with an adapter then guarantee you can order a wheel with custom backspacing/offset for a bolt on fit (I dont really like adapters either). If you dont like the tracking effect of 275x4 then run something smaller in the front. I run 245's on the front and 275's on the back and I dont have any problems with tracking on uneven road (yes it still does it but not noticably more than with the stock 16x8's running 245/50/16).

What is the minimum/maximum height (wheel+tire) you're willing to run?

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

Well i do quite a bit of autocrossing and road coarses. I had a hell of a time finding wheels for my GTA. I would say my motor makes a conservative 350 at the wheels. I really did not want to go big on diameter, but I found an 18 that did not require spacers, was lighter than the GTA stock rim, and allowed me a 265 35 upfron and a 285 35 in back and tucked in pretty well. I have to agree with hawaiian, the big wheel small side well works well. The new high tec tires they have out for these sizes are well engineered and make alot of the 15 16 diameter rolling stock look like yester years technology.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Well, an 11” wheel will be 12” wide, the 11” ZR1’s have a 50mm offset (~2”), and Andris doesn’t mention running anything more then a 2” spacer. With the spacer that puts things at 0 offset and 6” backspacing.

My instinct says that that would put 315’s sticking out a little bit.

I’m not sure that I can really describe what my issue is with the larger 17’s… I can tell you that I’ve run 275/50/15’s on all 4’s before and didn’t mind them as much as I mind the 275/40/17’s.

Max height? I think that 3rd gens look just about perfect with a 26” tall tire in the front and a 27” tall in the back. Over 27 and it starts taking a very distinct, straight line only look, under 26 and you start seeing a lot of the inner wheel wells from the side of the car.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

DAVECS1, what wheel sizes and either backspacing or offset are you running? Any more pics? I like the wheel design (Drift R’s or something else?) but really, I think that it looks like way too little rubber on the car in those pics.

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

I am running an 18X10 in the rear with a back space of 5.2 and a front space of 4.8.

The front has an 18X9 that is 4.5 BS and 4.5 FS.

I agree it could use some more rubber. Toyo has some tires that have a 45 series side wall. these are Sumitomos

rear 285 35
front 265 35

The wheels are ROH comp drift Rs

We keep running into each other.

HorseflyDF

I guess it would depend on how much power
your putting out.

For handling on the street I would go with 245 50 16
a lower profile tire over here in the city and I would be
looking for trouble Ive seen quite a few guys with
the rubber band tires on the side of the road.

I was considering going to the 15 Iroc rims just
to see if the additional rubber would keep me from
feeling every bump in the road but that is not worth
it to buy those rims then get tires, so I just got Falkens
240 50 16 96h tires which are is very good and handle
great in the rain also.

Only thing is you have to keep both hands on the wheel
when you get to waves in the road the tires will pull
hard which ever way the wave goes you go,
because of the width and tread.

RArnold

-------- Just where did you read the reviews on these tires............??????

tad1214

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...y.jsp?type=PAS , radial t/a is a pretty crappy tire based on the reviews. We have alot of problems gettting them to balance at my work as alot of them are out of round and have to be sent back. I personally have a set of 4 and I was very dissatisfied with the traction, snow (duh for any tire in a t/a), rain, and dry, all very slippery felt like, always squealing and sliding around.

drifter-x

Radial T/A's suck dirty *****. Unless you want to squeel everywhere and sound like your'e going fast or something (maybe something for rizers to look into), the Radial T/A's are hard and slick on dry pavement, and absolutely worthless in the rain. I blame them on the death of my 1st Camaro.

Shagwell

well, since this post has now been brought back from the dead:

17x8 front, 4.25 BS - 245/45/17 yoko's
17x11 rear, 8 BS - 315/35/17 Nitto DR's - 4thgen rear

I'll post pics when I get home. Mark, I don't think my rears are tucked far enough for what you want, but a 10" or 10.5" with a 315 would tuck just fine - no mods/hammering. As for 275's in the front, many 275/40's are "overly" directional, which is most the reason the pull as bad as they do. I worked at Tire Kingdom for quiet a while and have played tires on my car, as well as my buddies mustang. That said, I highly reccomend 17's. I don't have the power you have, but the combination is near perfect for how i drive/what I do. The car was a daily driver and I had less issues (pull, roughness, etc..) since going to the 17's. It hooks hard(1.66 60ft), holds corners harder than I feel like pushing it, and drives like new.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

huh, I always liked them for what they are, just a middle of the road, does everything OK tire. Much better then comprable goodyears and more responsive construction then most other similar tires. The newer firestone and Yokohama offerings in the same class are at least as good, but again, they're newer designs...

I find it hard to pick on the only thire that has consistently offered sizes in "muscle car" sizes. If the market was over run with stuff in that range then maybe, but till everyone else comes to their senses I'll take what I can get.

Shagwell

now that TGO is back up, pics as promised.

Shagwell

another one. - I've posted these before on other threads. Just trying to help.

Captain Morgan

I am looking to help hook up my 89 Iroc-z and the end of the summer is here and i want to get a set of tires that will be sufficient and good enough to carry over on to the weld drag lites im planning on purchasing during winter. plain and simple will a 275/50/15 fit on the back of my camaro with stock Iroc wheels? (without rubbing issues)