Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Did a little suspension work this weekend!

Eibach Prokit
Tokico HPs
Spohn adjustable PHR
New strut bearing plates
Energy Suspension endlinks up front

First off, the biggest pain in the rear (no pun intended) was getting the carpet back under the interior panels after tightening the shocks. Hey, every project should be so easy right! The entire rear half took an hour and a half. It was EASY! Like I said, the only issue was the carpet!

Up front was of course more involved, but still went pretty easy. I used a spring compressor for one side, and a safety chain wrapped around the K-member for the other. Both worked fine, but the compressor was a P.I.T.A. to get situated inside the spring. Like I said, it worked fine though. For the other side we used a safety chain just in case, and we simply lowered the A-arm. By the time the spring popped free it hardly had any load left on it. You could tell by the sound and by looking at it that it wasn't actually under much stress. Now I'm not suggesting to even THINK about not using a safety chain for this method, but it turned out we would've been fine without it.

I never did manage to get the nuts off the top of the strut on either side. Since I had new bearing plates I just took the entire assembly out through the hole in the strut tower all in one piece!

....and getting the little black dust caps back on afterwards... ...don't ask, I'll just get mad all over again.

Here's the vitals: The car sat a little crooked due to the age of the old springs and shocks so I can't give exact drop dimensions, but here's what I have as of now. The back now sits at 27.25" on both sides. That's about .75" of drop from where it was. The front now sits at 26" and 26.5" but some measuring reveals that one fender is a little out of adjustment to the low side, so we'll say it SHOULD be 26.5" on both, which is a smidge over 1" of a drop. The ride is absolutely insane. It feels like it's riding on rails. The ride alone is worth it 100%, but the drop looks great too. I was afraid that 1" might not look like enough of a drop, but I think it's awesome.

Here's some pics: Since most people say they do settle just a little over a couple hundred miles, I'll take some more pics in a few months.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

...and one more.

SweetRide45

iTrader: (2)

Looks good ...rear looks SLIGHTLY higher than the front, but that is understandable...still looks great!

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Yep, it does sit a tad higher. We'll see what happens I guess. It doesn't look bad IMO, but it could be a smidge lower in the back. I'm not gonna mess with it for a while, since several people say they do settle.

SweetRide45

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, my prokit settled after a short while. I'm equalled out by the pounds of sounds I have out back My FRONT sits a tad higher, but will soon change once my swap is done

k's89rs

you scraping the ground badly? that is what im worried about. im getting slp zr1's and im going to wrap some 245/45's on them. i also want to lower my car, but i scrape as it is. would you suggest it?

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Well, I haven't driven enough yet to say one way or another. Some people have said it's a problem. Other's seem to have no problem.

I think with ZR1's you really need a little drop to make'm look right, but of course, if you're already scraping, that's a decision you'll have to make.

SweetRide45

iTrader: (2)

I rarely scrape...only when going fast or carelessly over inclines and/or bumps (which I avoid)...otherwise, it's not really an issue. Those springs are stiffer, and will give you, what some may consider, a more harsh of a ride. I don't seem to mind

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

That's sweet man. I've got the exact same setup going in my Camaro this week. As the matter of fact, the HP's showed up today

I'm hoping my ride will get a little softer actually, because it rattles the crap out of me right now. I think it's a combo of 14 year old springs and used up KYB's. Atleast I hope it is.

blyth18md

I have the same combo as well, i dont know how long it will be before i can get them on though...Im running 17" y2k c5's....i might have to cut the rears to get a more level ride height. Looks sweet though.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

I have the BMR 3 point brace and it helped a TON with the squeaks and rattles.


I'm gonna let 'em be for awhile to see if they'll settle, but if they don't settle, I'll probably trim a half coil. With my 16s, the raked look doesn't actually look half bad, but If it were up to me, I'd rather have it look perfect.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

But does the whole car jolt everytime you hit a crack or pothole? Mine does right now. It's really quite harsh.

I'm hoping some glass t-tops with help.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

It does jolt a bit, but the roads here are pretty good. No real potholes to speak of, and when there is one, I can normally avoid it.

...but yes, It's certainly more harsh of a ride. It's worth it though!

HorseflyDF

wide low profile tires dont help with absorbing
bumps so with a stiffer suspension its gonna get worse.
14 inch rims and some balloon tires (like a saw
on a 75 nova) would air your ride out.
But how would it look and handle?

By the way I can paint your rims black no problem
I dont like shiny

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

...and although it'd be a lot of work, I can strip yours of paint and shine 'em up if you like!!!!!

I LIKE SHINY!

.....the black is kinda cool though...kinda mad max like.

HorseflyDF

Mad Max favorite movie first one
falcon xb if you like that movie
check out this site.

http://www.madmaxcars.com/cars_obtainable/

k's89rs

ahh gotta love mad max. that is what inspired me to do my car!http://www.austinthirdgen.org/module...view_photo.php
thats my car, i dont like shiny either. i do however need to get some eibach springs on there, to make it look more agressive.

SweetRide45

iTrader: (2)

I like Shiny

Mongoose

iTrader: (2)

Glad to see you like the Eibachs. Looks sharp with that drop. I look forward to seeing it in person at the next AF.

onebluemcm

Did you, or do you plan on having, lower control arm relocation brackets? That, and the bump-steer issue are the main reasons I haven't yet gone to the Pro-kit springs on my IROC. Curious to hear what you did with those issues.
K

CaysE

Damn I can't wait to get the Pro-Kits on my car.

And as an aside, your camera takes excellent pictures, Abubaca.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

As for the LCAs and relo-brackets, no I don't have them yet. I'm gonna get 'em, but I'm not having any problems as of yet. The back didn't lower all that much. ...but yes, at some point I'm gonna get 'em.

Bump steer? I haven't heard of that being an issue.


.....and the cam is a Canon A80. I did TONS of research, and I think I made the right bang for the buck choice. Glad you agree Cayse!

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Let me clarify the bump steer thing. Obvisouly the geometry changes and I'm getting a full alignment first thing Thursday AM. Obviously the tie-rod angle will still be slightly off, but for normal street driving, I hadn't heard of people having any trouble.

I guess we'll see because at the moment I have no plans of getting an anti-BS kit.

CrazyHawaiian

I dont think you need to worry about correcting the suspension geometry, the Prokit does not lower the car enough to make it a problem. So its a good combo huh? I'm thinking about using this combo for my B4C, Prokit and HP's. The current springs/dampeners appear to be OEM and they do feel a little mushy.

onebluemcm

Yeah, Abubaca - as you get a few more miles on the new springs I too am interested to hear how the ride is and how much clearance issues you might be having too. I've already gone to Bilstein shocks/struts and they are just great so I'm wondering about the springs - I would really like the lower stance......but as with everything, there are trade-offs..............

As for the geometry issue - both with the bump steer and LCAs - it definetly is a hot topic with people on both sides of the fence. I know the Pro-kit doesn't make a huge change so I'm wondering just how necessary, for a real-life street driven car, it is to correct for bump-steer and the LCA angle change.

K

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Once the alignment is done I'll put some more miles on. I can visually see that the camber is off so I'm taking it easy for now. Alignment will be done soon though. One thing I had heard was that the HPs were not enough for the pro-kit, but as far as I can tell so far, they're just right. I haven't really flogged it yet so we'll see!

As for the geometry, I've heard of tons of people having issues with the LCA's, especially with launching/wheelhop. The LCA relos of course help this. What I meant about the bumpsteer not being an issue was that I hadn't heard of many people actually having problems. That's not to say they didn't experience any bumpsteer, but just that it wasn't really a problem.

Simple geometry tells us that it does occur, the question is simply whether or not it's enough of an issue to be a problem....
....and THAT my friends is what we'll find out!

onebluemcm

How necessary do you think it is to have adjustable LCAa when you lower a car and use relocation brackets? Seems like the rear end might get shifted forward or aft a bit with a fixed LCA length. Maybe it is a minimal change though - but I don't know, so I'm asking.......

Mongoose

iTrader: (2)

As for the LCA brackets I can definitely say get them regardless of the rear's height. There was a enough of a difference in mine after I had them installed on my original 10 bolt that I had another set installed on my 9 bolt before I swapped rears in the bird. As for the bumpsteer issue, I don't recall experiencing any and I have the Sportlines but then again the roads around here are pretty decent. I may get the Baer kit when I begin to try out autocrossing.

Acceld Z

Are the Tokico HP's meant for aftermarket drop springs?

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

I only know what I've heard, and that is that the relo-brackets make a difference REGARDLESS of whether or not your car is lowered. That being said, I've heard firsthand of several people having wheelhop problems with lowering springs and OE rear LCA setups. The brackets alone seem to cure most problems, and that's with stock LCAs. That's the only firm answer that I've found with regards to the LCAs. THE BRACKETS WORK! Do the aftermarket LCA's make a difference? It depends who you talk to. Do they need to be adjustable? Again, depends who you talk to.

I think with all this talk of suspension, it's important to understand what sort of application we're discussing. I do NOT autocross, and I hit the strip only a few times a year. I'm not a competitive driver. If I were auto-xing or seriously dragging, then all of these suspension issues become VERY important!!! I've heard of suspension being worth several tenths in the quarter, and obviously it's impact is equally important on a road coarse. My 170,000 mile Iroc could drive circles around any other car I've owned, and now it handles a TON better! The LCA relo brackets should be on a few weeks and I'm hoping that'll be enough for my purposes.

I've looked into this a bit, and again I think I can go back to my previous paragraph. I've heard a few people mention that they were running Tokico HPs with the Sportlines and the Pro-kit, and they loved 'em. I've also heard that some felt under extreme situations they didn't quite have enough dampening to control the shorter travel of the aftermarket springs. I don't remember who or where it was, but someone reviewing the HPs in some magazine said "you'll never outdrive the HPs unless you're on the track and you know how to drive." Take that for what you will.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Here's a link to Tokico suspension kits. They mention performance lowering springs and either Illumina or HP shocks and struts.

http://www.tokicogasshocks.com/car/suspension_kits.html

Acceld Z

Cool, thanks

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Well, I've put about 150 miles on the suspension. I've got a small "clunk" sound over some of the bigger bumps though. Everything has been re-checked and torqued, it's all in straight. Oh well, it's not real bad and some people have said that stiffer suspension will be a bit noisier in older cars.

....The ride is considerably bumpier. No big deal for me, but I wouldn't want it this way for an everyday car. LOTS more "feel" to the car now. Like I said, good for driving enjoyment, but wouldn't want it everyday. Car turns like it's on rails, and acceleration seems more harsh since the back doesn't bog as much.

...sweeeeeeeeet...

If the shocks/struts are mismatched, you sure can't feel it. No bouncing at all.

Can't feel the bumpsteer either, but I'm no professional driver. We'll have to wait and see.

onebluemcm

Sounds like a winner! Maybe the clunk will go away with more miles as things break in more.

Hey, as an aside, if you have the old springs, would you mind measuring their height? Just curious really, what the unloaded height is. Reason I ask is b/c I've thought about looking for springs with the same rate but a different overall height and go that route for a lowered ride. It's all hypothetical I guess, but I figure if I use the same spring rate the srping should compress about the same amount once loaded by the weight of the car so, if I were to use a spring that is, for example, an inch shorter, I might get a one inch drop and maintain the ride characteristics of IROC springs. Anyway, simply curious to know the height of the front and rear springs.

Thanks,
K

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

I threw 'em out, but they may still be in the can, I'll check tomorrow.

...Keep in mind that with shorter springs with the stock compression rate, you'll be a LOT more prone to bottoming out. You could get some drop spindles for the front and some aftermarket drop srings for the back. That'd probably give you what you're looking for.

onebluemcm

Good point - hadn't considered that. I was thinking though, I probably won't find aftermarket springs with a shorter overall height and the exact same spring rate and so I'd probably err towrads a higher rate than a lower one - maybe that would offset the chance of bottoming with a shorter spring? Don't know - it just needs to be tried I guess. I hope I'm not re-inventing the wheel - maybe someone has gone through all these hoops already......

K

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Springs are gone. Sorry.

.....and I think if you're looking for shorter springs with the same rate, you could just simply cut the springs. OE springs are linear, right?

CrazyHawaiian

I'm gonna be making a post soon about rear springs and their measurements. Happen to be in the middle of a few installs and my girl got a new digital camera so I figgured why not. I'm gonna be comparing OEM FE2 springs from my IROC-Z, Eibach Pro-Kit, Eibach Sportlines, and some custom ordered rear springs from Suspension Spring Specialists w/ Ground Control Weight Jacks. I'm gonna take pics of all of them uncompressed (next to a tape measure) so everyone can see the differences. Then when I get more time I'm gonna install each one and record the ride height with a OEM spec tire (245/50/16) and take pictures (next to a tape measure). I dunno about doing the fronts though, not sure if I have enough time to do that. As for custom springs, SSS can and will make you anything you want. Shorter or taller than stock, and any linear rate you want.