Mentor58

Hey Gang,

Working on my 83 that I'm making into a full out bracket car, and pulled the power steering box today. I plan on picking a manual one, and since I'm sort of ****-retentive about things, I decided to check just what manual boxes the S-10's used. Turns out the model they use are LARES 1275 for 82 - 84 and LARES 1472 for 85 - 93. Just for SNGs, I decided to check and see what other vehicles used that steering box. I think the only difference is that one has a flat on the input shaft, but the other doesn't.

I did notice that my input shaft on the power unit had a flat, but I looked and felt inside the steering joint and couldn't feel anything that matched, so I'm guessing that it was more for ease of installation, rather than fitting into a machined notch in the shaft. If I'm wrong, PLEASE correct me, but since it has never come up in any of the messages on the subject, I suspect it's a non issue.

A quick trip to www.larescorp.com and a short download of the catalog later, I was in hog heaven. Turns out that a LOT of the GM family used that box, along with jeep cherokee and wagoneer for a number of years. This SHOULD make the junk yard picking a LOT easier, since now I've got a copy of the printout in hand, with the appropriate vehicles highlighted to make my search a bit easier.

Hope this helps,

Steve W.

nape

iTrader: (1)

Wow, if that is true it opens up a ton of possibilities. Thanks for figuring that one out.

Now we'll probably have to trial and error to find out if any year F-bodies had the notch in the steering shaft.

Looks like the steering box even crosses with 4th gen X-bodies ['75-'79 Nova/Omega/Ventura/Apollo].

Now someone just needs to make a 3rd gen rag joint eliminator and we'll be all set

Mentor58

I gave my rag joint a good look over, it's nice and tight, no tears or slop. Since I don't see any easy way to replace that unit, I'm glad. What's funny is that my other 'working on' car that I race in street class is a 78 Nova, but it's got power steering, otherwise I think I would use it for a test.

I would THINK that if there were a matching notch in the steering shaft somebody would have run into it by now, and posted something on this or some other board.

It's always good when 20 minutes of research can save a TON of time and money down the road. I know JUST where in my favorite salvage yard a nice little nova with manual steering is sitting, hope it's still there.

Steve

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

that machined flat is there so when the bolt is tightened it goes through that flat spot and doesn't allow the shaft to rotate if the splines were to get messed up. a manual box that is the same shape without the flat won't fit. i've tried with a buddy and pulling an S10 box was easier than figuring out a way to grind it down.

Mentor58

Humm, that makes sense, but why has nobody reported a problem with it yet? it's not that I'm doubting you at all, just would have thought that someone else would have run into this by chance. I do have to admit that when I think about how the bolt that tightened the steering column onto the input shaft may pass right 'thru' that area.

I'll take a closer look at the coupling tomorrow, but seems like worst case, you could simply take a grinder and put a flat on the input shaft. I notice that the flat was located on 'top' of the shaft when the steering box was centered lock to lock. I think that a few minutes with a grinder and a set of calipers and you would be in business. Since it's designed as a redundent system, I wouldn't feel bad about getting it pretty close to perfect with a grinder.

What's your opinion? If I didn't have a nice angle grinder, it could be a real chore, but shouldn't be more than 15 minutes or so. (so with luck it will only take 4 hours give or take a day or two)

Steve W

AlkyIROC

Start here
http://www.borgeson.com/boxesandracks.htm

You'll find that the late model GM power and manual steering box use a 3/4" 30 spline input shaft. No other manufacturer uses this combination. The majority of the 3/4" input shafts used on other types of vehicles are 36 spline so to use one of these other boxes, you need to modify the bottom part of the steering shaft (rag joint). Now there's how it mounts. Just because they all use 3 bolts to mount it to the frame doesn't mean the bolts are all in the same locations. Lastly is the pitman arm. You'll need to use the pitman arm from the box you decide to use because like the input chaft, it won't be the same size or spline as the GM one. Chances are the pitman arm won't be the same shape either.

You can buy adaptor u-joints to convert strange steering boxes to strange steering shafts. (see link at top of message) Mostly it's the custom car and hot rods that do that. The u-joints are around $50 each.

The easiest swap is to just use an S10 box. There's always 1 or 2 per week on Ebay. Normally they sell for $40-$100.

Mentor58

Added after the fact.... I may very well be wrong in this post, it wasn't a problem with the input shaft, but with the output shaft that seems to be getting me. See my thread where I post my corrections.

Humm, I think that some of what I said was misunderstood....

I went to the Advance Auto Parts on line website, and pulled up the steering box for S-10 pickups. Turns out that there are 2 models, LARES stock number 1275 and 1472. I then went to the Lares site, pulled their catalog, and cross indexed those boxes.

The 1275 (the most common one out there) has the flat on the input shaft. I also checked a half dozen or so different vehicles for compatability, and each and everyone also used the exact same 1275 box.

Don't mean to sound like ED, but I'm not suggesting that any box could just bolt in, what I'm saying is that the magic S10 box is extremely common out there, confirmed by one of the Remans own catalog, and validated by pulling up the replacement item for a number of cars on Advance Auto.

Steve, where in the world was I ever suggesting that I was going for anything other than a bolt-in equiv replacement. I know that the pitman arm has to be replaced, I've read most if not all the postings on that subject on the board. Why in the world would I want to fabricate a custom mount, deal with custom adapters, and then still have a pitman arm that will just throw the steering geometry into a knot? I firmly believe in the KISS principle.

Good luck this coming season, I'm looking forward to hearing how your running this year. Catch ya over on brackettalk.

Steve