Mavrick

Is is possible, using all aftermarket parts, to make our cars handle better thn a vette or other high end sports cars? I am gonna install all spohn parts, and lower my car. I know this will help, but how will it compare to the others? My goal is to make my car, outhandle a porsche, go faster thana ferrari, for less then a vette. I know this is probably impossible to do, but I'm only 22 and this car is going to be a lifetime project.

ede

sure anything's possable

paul_huryk

Yes to all.

AFTERMIDNIGHT

sounds like you and i have the same goals. around here, we have a bunch of little punks that mommy and daddy bought them new porsches', vettes', and a kid in hilliard got a 04 viper gts for his 16th birthday. they always try to rub it in, so i figure, "woops, you have a $100,000 car and you gave me the privilage of handing you your a$$ today. thank you for making me feel good about myself." bunch of spoiled brats. nothing i would love to see more than a 89 rs kick a 04 viper gts in the nuts. hahahahahaha..
i'm done

thanks, pat

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Well you are going to have to make your car handle 1g or more on the skidpad with srteet tires. That isn't to hard but is pretty much the max that any street tire car can do. But overall saolom and body dynamics goes to them hand downs reguardless of what you do. There is a reason why they don't have a strut set-up with a solid rear end. Also, if you want to be in the same leage you are going to have to be able to brake from monsterous speeds in ver very short distances repetitively. I am not talking LS1, or 1LE bakes either. Those won't cut it.

kevinc

That's about how long it will take...

Mavrick

Thank you Kevin for your input, very helpful. I guess how long it takes, will depend on how good of a job i will get when i graduate.

As far as the cornering and the tires, I plan on getting OEM Z06 wheels. I know they are suppose to be lighter. I'm not sure what the best street tire you can get with those is, but I'll get those too. They normally come with the goodyear F1 eagle, correct? I think i remember an article in a magazine, where they tested a couple of C5 vettes, and changed nothing but the tires. And when they put the Z06 tires on the coupe, it performed just as well as the Z06. So we'll see. That won't be for a little while

Shifty, I do plan on getting good brakes. Once I am finished with all the suspension, I am gonna get a moser rear end. Hopefully, at the same time, I'll get the Pro-Series Spohn has for the front, along with the Wilwood rear kit AGood 2.8 posted a while ago.

I'm trying to build my car from the ground up. The engine will be the last mod I start (actually interior will, but that doesnt count) I plan on installing an LS1 and adding a turbo setup to it. Of course if it takes as long as kevin suggest, maybe I'll use an LS2, or hell maybe an LS3, or an LS4. Maybe those will be designed by then.

ksrammstein

U in westlake "aftermidnight"? I'm in North Olmsted and I know what you mean. I know a kid that lives in westlake and his dady is the VP of energizer battery. The bastard got a brand new vette for his 16th birthday.....Not Fair...

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

I don't know if your car will ever be as good around a track like a Z06 would be but you can get pretty close. The IRS systems they have on cars now adays just blows the 3rd gen out of the water. Don't get me wrong, you will love the way your car handles when you are all said and done and it will scare you. The problem with our cars is that we are only playing catch up by changing to better peices, while the euro cars and vettes have elelctronic shocks and stability stuff that aid them. I have the Goodyear Eagle F1's on my car and they are awesome. Their dry grip is amazing for 3rd gens and cars that aren't so heavy. They don't fare as well on the heavier 4th gens.

Mavrick

Thats what my main concern was. I figured the live axle would be the main problem. An IRS would be awesome, and I have seen a few people who have done the conversion. But I think i'll stay with what we have, and just mod it the best I can.

Another problem we have is wieght. I'm not sure of the weight of the vette, but they are all quite a bit lighter then our cars, correct? And i'm just not sure there is much we can do to get our cars within the same weight as other sports car, and keep it comfortable.

Mavrick

Hey Shifty, handling and braking seems to be your expertise around here. What kind of set up are you running? Have you tried anything different, or unique, with your car, or have you just gone the aftermarket way like most of us?

Ok, i just checked out your site. You have some nice mods. The accident sucks though. When did it happen, and how are the repairs going?

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

The repairs are going slowy but surely. Banked on-ramps in the rain and wide tires are not a good mix. A vette weighs in around 2700-2900 lbs. They are pretty light little boogiers with a nice weight ratio. I just went the aftermarket route for my car and didn't do anything special. The car handles better than I could ever imagine with what I have done. It is plenty scary for street driving. A new set of springs, subframes, strut tower brace, and wider wheels will scare you. The difference from stock is just awesome. Our cars have a wide stance, low center of gravity, and decent wheel base. All of these things make our cars great platforms for handeling. It makes best of what we have to work with suspension design wise. Minus exotics a full suspension 3rd gen is still one of the best handeling cars out there.

Zerstörer

Same around here. But the little brats cant drive. They'll go up in a cloud of smoke every race because they rev the engine to the moon and drop clutch. Being traction limited myself, i've learned to modulate the clutch and gas. Now if I see an old dude in a porsche or ferarri, i know to watch out. They can drive.

slow305

iTrader: (2)

What he said.

You throw all kinds of $$$ at a crusty third gen, and yeah, you will "out handle" a Ferrari/Porsche/Viper driven by a yuppie momma's boy, but if you run into somebody who can drive, it will be a whole 'nuther story.

The closest I have come to driving an "exotic" is a an E36 M3 with about the same mods suspension wise on my Firebird. The handling made my Firebird look 100% like the crusty F Body it is. I drove the M3 on two autocross runs and spun the car ech time because turn-in was so quick. Really weird being able to feel a front wheel lifting off the ground.

Pat

halfpint

Outhandle a Vette in a thirdgen? No problem- especially dollar for dollar. I own a Vette, Matter of fact there are four of them in the family. Average weight of a Vette is not 2700-2900lbs, they are much heavier(even with the fiberglass body) more like 3200-3400. SOme of the older ones exceeded 3650lbs.

You want to handle with the big boys- I know someone that can make it happen. Its not just what you bolt onto the car, its how you set it. Solid axles work very well- ever seen a latemodel NASCAR rearend?- solid axle.

Here's a shot of AGood2.8 making his rounds on Calif Speedway- I video taped him.

More pictures here,
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/518752/1

Derek

RegaPlanet

any chance you've converted the video to divx and care to post? I love vids...

halfpint

Wouldn't know how to do that. I don't know if I even have the capability with the camera I have. Those pictures where just shot off the TV screen, you probably noticed the lines across the image. I snapped them and e-mailed them to Dean- primitive, I know, but hey it worked.

Mavrick

Hey halfpint, you talk about handling withthe big boys. What exactly do you need to do? I really wanna make my car a great handling one. and while I may not be able to afford to do it all anytime soon, but I would like to learn what I can do to it eventually. You also say yuo know someone who can make it happen, who would that be?

rich3114

Weight isn't much of a factor for handling. I can pull 1.2 G's in my 4000 lb 1995 Mercury Cougar. With "only" 17" wheels, good tires, Bilstein Shocks, Addco swaybars, and H&R springs. I have also outhandled Vettes and some exotics in that car(Autocrossed the car a couple years ago). The only good thing the Cougar has going for it over my TA is the IRS rear-end, but my TA handled better than the Cougar stock for stock, so I don't see how it would be that difficult to make one outhandle a Vette. Just go with a good spring and shock, and some good swaybars, and make sure everything's tight with some new poly bushings.

halfpint

I don't know a whole lot about these cars but my cousin does. I just bought one to fix up (1984 Firebird) and am learning all the trick stuff from my cousin( Ex-AGood2.8). I have riddin in it and can tell you it handles like a go-kart. its scary how fast it goes into corners, you can't keep your head straigt.

Derek

Mavrick

Yea, he definitely knows his stuff. I enjoyed reading his post, until he was banned. I bet riding in his car was fun, and thats exactly how I wanna feel when i drive my car. And I look forward to the day when I can say I was scared by the amount of speed I carried into a corner.

RegaPlanet

Weight is one of the biggest handling factors. Much more important than skid pad numbers. I have no doubt you can pull 1.2g's with r-compound tires however, pushing a 4000lb car through transitions as well as accelerating and braking is much more difficult than doing it in a similiarly classed car that's 500-700lbs lighter. I know those prepped cougars are no slouch on the road course mind you.

Air_Adam

Oh really? So why can a 1800lb Lotus Elise pull 1g with a suspension even more street-friendly and cushy than ours? They have swaybars the size of pencils too.

halfpint

The only way you could pull 1.2g's in a 4000# Mercury Cougar is to hit a curb. go back to school and pay attention better in physics class before you post that nosense. A built production 2004 Vette (NON-tubular racing frame car, as in factory framed car) can barely pull those number on racing rubber- FULLY modified.

Suspension geometry design and weight of a Mercury cougar could never keep the tire traction contact patch on all four corners to pull over a even 1.0g's on racing tires never the less 1.2, I don't care how wide the tires are.

Dewey316

because the lotus is a completely diffrent car, look at the design of it. the lotus engineers went out of their way to make the ulimate handling car. also, i would be willing to bet that 90% of the drivers in the world would be faster in a modified 3rdgen than the lotus. skid pad numbers are not everything, the lotus is NOT a forgiving car at all, if you it unsettled at all, hang on, it is very tail heavy, and is not by any means recoverable from mistakes. you have to drive it perfectly for it to be fast.

now, weight does count for alot, but it is not the reason the lotus can outhandle thirdgens. there are quite a few very heavy cars that handle very well, heck look at the OTHER lotus cars, the Esprits are now weighting in at over 3000lbs, and no one would consider them anything short of a true supercar, they are just as capable. the credit for these cars isn't their weight, it goes to show how good the lotus engineers are at what they do.