BumpaD82

SUP Dave ! Can't wait until you get that Blue BEAST done and I get to see it again, I was gonna contact you the day I was suppose to come down BUT I ddin't make it the engine in the truck BLEW UP so anyways talk to you laters

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

looking good, i like the rack! i'm sure you'll be quite happy with it.

tamatt27

I guess I should read the entire post, before reading that one.

Z RATED IROC

Update:

The engine is together!!! It is amazing it ran as well as it did. The machine work was so screwed up in so many areas.
That is all fixed now. "Different machine shop" Many new parts.

Got the brake lines routed and tied out of the way. Looks nice and clean.

Tomorrow it goes in....


Bumpad82,

I got the system out no problem. It saved 80 Pounds!!!
Going faster is better than Listening to the tunes anyway...
I'm hoping for a 50/50 weight distribution. It will be close.

cdh67

the tubular crossmember still works with the stock power steering correct?

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

it should yes...the rack is just nicer.

MrDude_1

yes.

matter of fact, the K member that i just ordered for $250 is a "factory replacement".. the motor mounts are just like stock, and the springs attach like stock.

the only "mod" i'll have to do when installing it is to slightly bend the brake line to move it closer to the new K member..


i just spent $950 on parts yesterday, between summit, and Profab... so i didnt splurge more for the tubular A arms...... i'll be using my stock A arms with it.


in every thread ive seen about the K member, someone asks about weight.
the reason im doing this isnt weight. its access... look at our cars and at the Pics Zrated took see ALL THAT ROOM?!

i'll be able to check my plugs at the track.. easily. no more clearance problems. when i put my longtubes in, no grinding on the A arm mount.

last but not least..... it looks trick

Boxeat2469

Welll... my tubular A-arms were waiting for me when I got home last night. The picture on Pro Fab's website just shows the bare arms. I was pleasantly surprised to see brand new bushings and ball joints already installed in the arms. I'm hooked! Pro Fab definitely has my business.

BumpaD82

COOL! COOL! I hated to just bail on ya BUT I was on foot so I wasn't getting to SLC very fast talk to you laters ~Dave (the other 3rd gen in UT

twistedwedge

Im not totally sure that my steering shaft is the exact same as you have unless you can snap a pic of yours and show it to me...Actually I did have a problem with the original universals that p/a put in the steering shaft, seemed to me that the upper sleeve where it mounted to the stock steering wheel shaft was a loose fit and when I would turn the wheel the steering shaft had some play/wobble in it. Well what ended up happening is due to all that slack one day i was driving the car to my buddies shop just up the road from my place to change gears in it and the top universal snapped in two! Luckily i was going straight and not cornering or that could have been disasterous. So back to the universals make sure you have the bigger ones, mine seemed generic and were very small. What I ended up doing is taking a stock upper universal and slip sleeve off of my buddies 4th gen car and welding it to the rest of the p/a unit. Everything is tight now and I love it.

BTW I am using 1&3/4 Hooker Super Comp headers, I have solid motor mounts and from comparing the two (i had the poly ones before) it seems like the motor height is almost identical. Really the only true way you will be able to make sure everything will fit exactly is mock it all in there once you get the motor in and the headers on. With aftermarket parts you have to remember that only 90% of the time stuff will be a first time fit without any fine tuning. Good luck!

If you want i can snap a pic of it, it may be kind of hard to see since its still on the car and I dont feel like taking it off (PITA)

Oh yeah one more thing: on your coil over conversion..if your kit came with a spacer that goes on top of the top spring cup, make sure that it rides on the race of the bearing that is contained in the strut tower. Mine didnt, it rode on the bearings just to the outside of the race and it almost ate through to the bearings themselves. So be careful there. My buddy ended up fabricating some shorter spacers for me that are stepped so that you have a large diameter on the bottom for the top spring cup and a small up top for the bearing race.

MrDude_1

Pics Zrated took

twistedwedge

I meant so he can compare his steering shaft to mine

Z RATED IROC

Twistedwedge,

Thanks for the info. I'm encouraged by the fact that you also are using the Super comps. If yours fit, mine should also.

As for the steering shaft itself. It needed to be cut to length and welded. The U Joints are pretty strong looking and it has no play in it at all.

The motor will be in today so if there are going to be any issues I will know really soon.

One thing we are looking forward to is the extra room when doing the install. I have the Morroso Deep pan, and it always was a pain getting it over the stock K member. Now it should drop all the way down before it slides into the transmission.

I'll keep Y'all posted...

cdh67

Yes the rack would be lighter but they dont have the same feel. When you roadrace the feel from stock steering box helps a lot. One plus I can see with the rack is you get away from the nasty rubber doughnut between the steering shaft and box. I hate those things. Seems they are always worn out.

MrDude_1

if you want a cheap way to improve the stock steering, replace the stock ragjoint with a universal.

cdh67

Yea you can do that. You just have to be careful of whose u-joint you install. I used to work for Chevy Duty Pickup parts and we started to sell them and discovered that all u-joint arent the same. There is a lot of them on the market that wont hold up to a 3400+ plus weight of a vehicle.

Dewey316

or wait until unbalanace engeineering finaly finishes his rag-joint eleminator kit for thirdgens.

MrDude_1

oooh, when is this coming out? anytime in the next 2 weeks?

87CIZ

iTrader: (8)

did pro fab change their website? it's a deadlink

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

http://www.profabracing.homestead.com/

Anniversary-Z-man

iTrader: (2)

Are the pics Z rated posted taken down? The link doesn't seem to work anymore....if someone has them can you please email them to me drabicki2@comcast.net

Thank you,
- Joel

MrDude_1

yea...

my buddy josh no longer runs a webserver..

i can email them to ya.

Anniversary-Z-man

iTrader: (2)

Thanks buddy...I appreciate it!

- Joel

MrDude_1

emails sent.
i had to split it up into two emails.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Travis send em my way I'll Host em.

Trans Am#5

I'd like to see the pics too
On another note...would be at all possible to suspend the motor while swapping? If I have to pull it then, so be it. If not, thats just going to make things much quicker.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

I do belive I seen pictures of someone who suspended the motor and did his.

They make a STB that is made for suspending the motor while doing something like this.

FLYNLOW92rs

iTrader: (53)

Does anyone suggest getting Tubular K-members and a-arms for a car that is a daily driver?

What are the advantages and disadvantages?

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/487725/5

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Your gona get miked reviews on this question.

If you get one from PRO FAB ask vern for one for road racring/scca Its got more braceing.

Either one should do mine is nicelly made. A well know local fabracator checked it out and said it looks like it was made good.

cdh67

I have no problems with the crossmember its a beefy piece,but the a-arms I wont own for a street car. They arent beefy enough for KC streets. They would fracture in no time around here.

FLYNLOW92rs

iTrader: (53)

I was looking into doing this, but i refuse to loose the streetability of the car?

Who makes the strongest K-member and A-arms?

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Vernon House is the owner.

http://www.profabracing.homestead.com/our_products.html


This is Taken from http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...7&page=5&pp=20

IROCZZ3

For daily driving, the K member and A arms hold up perfectly. Just because it looks "weak" doesn't mean it is.

EDIT: After reading the above link, I guess I should clarify that with the PA stuff, I've never had any quality control issues like cracking welds, bent tubes,etc, nor have I read of a PA K member or A arm failing.

I do inspect the K member and A arms whenever I change oil and see no signs of failure after thousands of miles of daily driving. I still stand by my original statement that PA's products are plenty strong for daily driving.

As for BMR, that's the 2nd incident I've read about their K members failing.

cdh67

Better do some reading over at LS1 ,there seems to be more problems then needs to be. They a-arms are not beefy, there is no strength designed into them. They are relieing on the weld strength and there is nothing to prevent the arm from flexing the weld.

iroc-si

The other thing to consider is whether you go for the stock replace parts or the coil over parts. Having received my a arms, I would not like to use the coil over version as I like the look of the stock spring perch strapping. seems to give the whole a-arm a lot of strength. yes thats a visual opinion as they are not quite on the car yet.

Opinions so far on PA racings parts :
# Why can't they offer the mounting kit of bolts??? In some parts of some countries it is tricky to source the right selection of grade 10.9 M12 bolts. Even the stock parts are not actually correct for the application!!!! There should NOT be thread touching any part of the K member or a arm bushing. tricky to spec but not impossible

# Why doesn't the k member mount to the full 8 holes in the chassis? The front 2 are by way of a separate pair of brackets but the k member doesn't mount to those either.

I let folks know if I have any problems with driving in a city that was voted the worst for potholes in the UK.

Si.

nyytrousboy

Is anyone aware that Profab and Pa Racing are two totally different companies? I see alot of issue's with parts and most are not aware of this when buying parts. The quality from the 2 place's are nite and day difference.

nyytrousboy

Sorry DBl post

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

and you know this from 1st hand experience?

Vern and Jason both ran PA RACING. Vern designed everything and made stuff also.. They had a dispute and went separate ways.

Vern opened up PRO FAB and still designs and makes his own parts. Where PA still uses the same designers and farms parts out to be made. This is one reason Vern has a cheaper price then PA still.


Ive spent a few hrs talking to Vern about his stuff not only his parts but technical stuff on powdercoating since he just bought a industrial setup so he can coat all his own parts now.

Very nice guy who will bend over back wards for his costumers.

nyytrousboy

No hard feelings bro but I know alot more than what your saying on the net here. I am Jason @ Pa racing And I can assue you that Vernon did design some parts but he didn't do 100% of them you've got to think of this like a divorce and one party is mad @ the other one always say more than there really is. I can assue you as well that I to do fabricate and have for over 10 yrs I make 100% of all our parts in-house. I did for a few months last yr (after the split) have a shop helping me until I got back on my feet. I can assure you also that the reason my parts cost more than Vernons parts is quality I can assure you again that there is no one person that is as quality crazy as I am and if you knew so much of Myself or Vernon you would know this was the real reason for our split. Also on the tubing issue if you use a good grade tubing ( and good welders) you would have no issue's with tubing splitting being that a good grade would be DOM seamlessand not a cheap electric weld peice. Again this comes back to quality don't always believe all you hear I tend to believe what I see, also this is another reason on pricing yes I could lower my prices' but then I would have to lower my standards on materials used ( this isn't the answer to a good product). No hard feelings Chris but if you'd like more info on the matter you can reach me @ 877-550-8400 or e-mail me @ Jason@paracing.com . Sorry for the wasted space guys but I'm tired of reading this matter and would just like to let guys know that when they think they are buying a real Pa Racing product and get mis-informed and get another ( but when there is a problem with the other part I am the first one contacted).

Dave Y

Think you could help us thirdgen,org guys with a small discount?

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Jason,

No hard feeling taken. Glad to see you actually took time to chime in here and give your side of the facts...

I cant say I have had one of your k members in hand to check out. but I had my Local fabricator doug who has workin in the NHRA, NASCAR, and IRL cirucits take a look at my k member befor I desided to use it He said It looked like a good piece and should be fine for what Im doing.. I trust what he has to say.

either way I havent heard of any problems with EITHER of your products. just the BMR k-member.

If I was to do a k member in my vert id buy one of yours to compair the two. Id like to see 1st hand the Diff. I still havent bought the a-arms yet so maybe I'll look into yours well see when the times comes.

Im in no way bashing you or PA RAcing with anything spoken above just stating what side of the situation I have heard.

1983Fbody

For those wondering about weight, I just installed the profab kmember and aarms in mild steel w/stock spring perches and steering. Total weight loss over stock pieces...

40lbs

Install went smooth, only problem is now the car sits lower (i didn't want to use the stock rubber spring isolators which brought the car down a little. Also the tubular kmember sticks down lower vs. the stock member- looks like i'll need some new springs!

91DropTopTA

I just wanted to say the I worked in a fabrication shop where we made suspension parts for circle track cars. We made some control arms for the race cars that were basically the same design as these. There was no heat treating, but we had great quality control as far as welding and tolerances went. The only time I ever saw a control arm give out was when a car hit the wall. These were basically the minimum you could get away with as far as weight v.s. strength in a part. I think most of these setups would hold up on the street, especially if they are built right and given heat treatment and reinforcement as needed to give some added security. What I would love to see is a completely tubular front subframe so that you could ditch the framerails too. Then I want to see a fully tubular frame that replaces the front with coilovers and the rear with a vette irs. Now that would be fun to play with. This kind of thing is available for so many other models I think it's time the thirdgens got some major suspensions designed for it.

blacksheep-1

Mr. Dewey, I would have to disagree with the article on the c/m vs DOM. The c/m is always lighter for the same thickness, you can tell this by picking it up. The c/m also has a "memory" it's very hard to bend and wants returns to it's original shape. The DOM tends to saty bent. I would say, welded correctly that either material would perform just fine with the exception that the c/m would be considerably lighter. (Dewey, I'm not picking on you, I just disagree witht he article) A good example of this would be in kart racing where different types of tubing are actually welded together to get the chassis to flex differently for different tracks. The tubing is even mig'd instead of tig'd which is unusual for a c/m material. I realize that karts aren't cars, and in the more competitive classes the chassis are thrown away after 1 season. If it were mine, and I could find a quality piece, I would go with the c/m part evn though it should be more expensive.

Kat

iTrader: (4)

At work one day I picked up a 24ft length of .095 wall DOM MS and a 24ft lentgh of .095 wall DOM 4130.. guess what... THEY WEIGHT ABOUT THE SAME!

99.5% of the time when people say 4130 is lighter is because they can use a thinner wall thickness than MS due to its strength.

Then again I don't know **** either.. Sooo

Kat

Anniversary-Z-man

iTrader: (2)

Just wondering if anyone knows if all the X Member makers (Pro Fab, AJE, BMR etc...) are all using the same thickness and diameter tubing for these? I'm just curious because that would probably help in determining which maker may have the most reliable piece...besides the design and bracing. If I do end up getting the Pro Fab piece (which I'm leaning towards) I'm definitely going for the road race extra bracing version.

- Joel

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

so in your own eyes why would anyone bother buying chromoly....?


Anniversary-Z-man sounds like you plan to auto-x stick to your stock piece if your so worried. if you want the looks i suppose it would be alright but beyond that your spending money where it could be put to better use for the 30-40lb save.

Kat

iTrader: (4)

Strength. Thats about it for .095 wall.. ..

Kat

vsixtoy

Spohn's version is commoning very soon- It will have many options including a coilover design that is very trick and strong- I would advixe patience until you see what he has up his sleeve. From what I know, I am definately going to his coilover conversion. That's all the info I have for now. He will be announcing it in due time- but should be very soon.