MCas7

Well I finally ordered my 8 point roll cage from Spohn. I ordered it with the door bars that go around the factory arm rests. It should be here tuesday and I will be installing it shortly after that. I am starting a website to show the step by step process of putting it in. Hopefully it will help anyone else that has questions about it.

Blackroc86

Are you getting a "roll cage" with the halo bar and front bars or are you getting a roll bar?

Matthew91-Z28

I've been terribly interested in this for a while. This would be great if you posted the step by step pics. And then recorded your before and after feelings about handling. PLease keep us posted on further info.:hail:

MCas7

I ordered an 8 point roll cage from Spohn. The kit is made by S&W Racecars. It has the halo bar, 2 door bars, and 2 bars that go to the back.

I will definatley post step by step pictures. And as for the handling before the install, not very good. I'm sure it will stiffen things up a bit.

Blackroc86

Which one of these did you order?

The roll bar.
http://www.spohn.net/category.cfm?categoryid=1106

or the roll cage.
http://www.spohn.net/category.cfm?categoryid=1107

MCas7

I ordered the 8 point roll bar. Not the 10 point cage. Sorry if my terms were mixed up. I will post the link to the site I am building when I start the install.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

On this board you have to get the terminolgy correct or else!!! Another note you have a hoop not a halo also!! Just trying to stay as politically correct as possible so everyone can understand

Blackroc86

I was just wanting to make sure he knew what he had ordered. It does cause confusion when someone calls a bar a cage or the other way around. Especially when doing a search.

I look forward to your website with your upcoming installation.

MCas7

Well the roll bar has landed. It came in about 2 weeks ago. I ordered it through Spohn and they just drop ship from S&W Racecars. They sent me the main hoop, the rear bars, the cross bar, and both sets of door bars (the regular ones and the ones that fit around the armrests), which I thought was cool, because now I can use the extra bars for other bracing. They also sent the 2 bars that go down from the cross bar to the tranny tunnel and all the 6"x6"x1/8" steel plates to weld to the floor. So the next step is to finish removing the interior and start the install. I'm about 3/4 of the way through taking the interior out. I just have to take the seats and the rest of the carpet out. I was told to leave the headliner in so the it fits as close as possible to the main hoop. I'll keep you posted on the rest of the progress.

@ZZKKER

iTrader: (1)

I AM FINISHING MY S & W ROLL BAR INSTALL WITH EXTRA "CUSTOM" BARS INSTALLED. I WILL BE POSTING PICS WHEN I GET IT DONE. IT STARTED OUT AS AN 8 POINT KIT, BUT I AM ADDING ROCKER BARS THAT CONNECT TO THE PERIMERTER COMP ENGINEERING CONNECTORS, AND THE FRONT OF THE SWING OUT SIDEE BARS IS MOUNTED TO THE 6X6 FLOOR PLATE ON THE FLOOR, THEN THE 6X6 IS CONNECTED TO THE COMP ENGINEERING SFC'S.

I ALSO MADE THE REAR CROSS BAR, AND AM DECIDING ABOUT A FEW MORE STRATIGICALY PLACED BARS FOR ADDED STREANTH.

SHOULD HOPEFULLY BE DONE WITH IT THIS WEEKEND IF I CAN GET MY EXTRA TUBING.

I WILL START A THREAD WHEN IT IS DONE.

THANKS
ANTHONY

94-6spd

I'm very interested in the installation of the cage also. I plan on building one like the Kenney Brown cage. This way I won't hit my knees getting in the car. Here is a pic.

laiky

is the kenny brown cage NHRA approved? will it protect in a roll over?? I didn't think a hoop without cross bracing was rated for rollover protection?

HaroGt14

Ahhh so much yelling! Lol just kidding. So did you finish the roll cage install yet? Im anxious to see how it turned out and how it looks. Also how you like it and how your car handles now!

Sean

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

The kenny street cage is just an appearance mod mainly it's not NHRA approved so you're just adding weight to the car without gaining any benefits if you're shooting for 11s and plan on doing it on the dragstrip. If you want it just for street use go ahead but it costs a ton. I only had around 280 shipped on my roll bar that's including clearanced side bars and dual side outs.

Without the crossbar you can have lateral collapase of the main hoop more. I think we can all agree if there was a bar weld'd in the main hoop it would be stronger and much harder to bend from a side hit on the legs of it... but without a bar in there is all that space open space with no support.

Your Door bars are also not approved by NHRA by rules they have to pass between the shoulder and elbow.

I did my roll bar last spring. Man did the thing strengthen up the car and it even handles better now.

If you don't want to hit your knees or step over a bar just buy the swing out kits there 70 bucks total (35 per side). That way you just swing out the bar, get in, and swing it shut again. Nice and easy. Theres a pin that goes in the hole to hold the bar to the main hoop I looked them up they have around a 12,000 to 20,000 (approx I didn't know exact size) psi double sheer rating. So when people say pins aren't as strong as fully weld in bars it's true to a certain point.

I also believe if you do not mod the floor boards (like cutting them up to attach the roll bar to the SFCs) you can run down to a 10.0 sec on a roll bar... otherwize it's a 10.99 sec.

PhilM

yes, you are correct fireturd350. the floor from the firewall to the back of the driver seat must be stock (wheel tubs are permitted) and unaltered. if so you can run 10.00 with a 6 point bar.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

I thought it was a 8 point not 6?

PhilM

no a 6 point is legit, actually the rule book only really speciifes a 5 point, meaning a passenger side bar is not required. I was SFI certified NHRA tech for years and sat through many division 1 tech meetings and SFI classes, so trust me on this one. and if you want some backup, pick up an NHRA rulebook...

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

OH yeah I forgot about you didn't need a side bar for the passenger.

@ZZKKER

iTrader: (1)

YEA THE CAPS WAS ON WHEN I POSTED BECAUSE I POSTED WITH THE SHOP COMP, AND DIDNT TURN IT OFF TILL AFTER I TYPED THE WHOLE POST, AND DIDNT WHATN TO RETYPE IT.

ANyway

it is 10.99 with the 5 piont if you have t-tops or a convert, but 10 if it is a hardtop, regardless of the floor being modified (you can modifiy i think 36 sq " or so without the floor being considerd modified). by modified they mean cuting and smothing holes for the exaust, or makeing it smooth for arodinamics. i dont think they would cut the time you could run for making a 1 3/4" hole on each side to connect to sfc's, as this makes the cage/bar stronger.
another way to avoid this is to do what i am doing. take the 6x6 " plates that come with, install them on the floor, the cut away a 2" circle from the center of the plate, then take a piece of scrap tubing to weld in between the plate and the sfc. this in a sense is better than just cutting a hole then welding a patch around the bar.

here are the latest pics that i have. i still have to install the rest of the rear x brace, the side bars, and the rocker bars. i will do the method of connecting the plates to the sfs's i described to the side and rocker bars. the rocker bars alow me to drive the car without the side bars in and not lose the strength. also, welding the bars to the plate, then the plate to the sfc's, ties the floor in to the "grid" system of the cage, makeing the floor more stable (less of a load).

anyway, enjoy the pics. hope to finish it this weekend as long as nothing comes up. i still have to buy my extra tubing, but that should not be a problem.

dont mind the red doors, they are test fit doors only. my nice new painted black doors on still on the shelfs.


thanks
anthony

@ZZKKER

iTrader: (1)

2
front floor plate

@ZZKKER

iTrader: (1)

3

@ZZKKER

iTrader: (1)

last one. i know it is more then 3 pics, but i currently dont hve a site to host these and it is a pic of the sfsc's. the black ones are the alston, and the grey ones are the comp engineering. the grey ones are perimiter and will have the plates welded to those one installed.

also, i havnot had a chance to drive it yet as there is snow on the ground and bare metal and snow dont mix.

thanks
anthony

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Not flaming you, just wonder why you placed the rear bars so far away from your shock mounts? Are you adding something to the interior that would'nt allow you to do this. Most all chasis builders try to mount the rear points as close to the suspension peices as possible. Looks good otherwise.

Xophertony

@zzkicker.... where are the back seats? now you can only haul one passenger. man, you gave up seating capacity for a role cage fool






yes i am joking.
EDIT this seemed alot more funny when i typed it then when i read it. ..... anyway, kick *** rolecage/bar top shelf.

@ZZKKER

iTrader: (1)

thanks for the comments.

the main reason why the rear bars are so far away from the shock mounts is for the ease of mounting the plates. my gas tank is still in the car so i would not be able to beat the "vally" from the streangthing ribs up to weld to the plate, and i cant really wait to weld those as my car will have new paint on it and dont want to take the chance of the welding blankets marring the paint. also, under the plates, there are "frame rails" that the gas tank rides against and they are pretty beefy, so it was the most feesable place to put them.

as far as bars that connect to the shock mounts, i am going to run a bar that comes off one of the main bars on each side to the shock plates, and am also welding the seams along the shock mount plates, and along the back were the back seat use to be, so i will not lose any streangth imo.


as for the back seats, i could still fit them back there after its all said and done.






its amazing what a bfh and a sawzaw can do to make the seat fit around those bars

but really, i knew i was giving up the back seats in the start, and did not want that elusive "can i come" from the 3rd or 4th person in the group (want to keep the new carpet and headliner nice), so this serves as a dual purpose. i am going to reinstall all of the plastics to, so that is anouther reason for the extra clearance. for the rear seat wells, i am planning on haveing 2 brahma 12 " subs in a custom box. i know what you are thinking, thats a lot of extra weight. that is why it is going were the seats use to be, lower to the ground, and does not affect the center of gravity as much as having them in the back. i plan on driving this car everyday it does not snow, and no salt is pressent, so it will have a top notch stereo installed.

also the main hoop looks to be to low (it does not fall into nhra specs, but what 3rd gen with stock seatbelts and a headliner do) but it buts right up to the headliner when installed, and the nhra usually overlooks that rule on the 3rd gen as long as adiquate padding is installed.


all in all, i wanted to build the car so it would be stiff, handle extremly well, be super fast, but still have the creature comforts like ac, stereo, interior and so forth. by n means is this car to be a drag car, more a road race car when i want it to be and controlled on the road.


anyway, i know the swing out side bar stuff has always had people asking and i will post some GOOD!!! pics of it when i am finished so people will have good pics to look at, because lets face it, spohn's pics on his site are crappy and cant really see much

thanks for readig this really really long post.

anthony

92 RSS

Looks good, What make and model welder you using?

Sorry, didn't read the "really really long post"

@ZZKKER

iTrader: (1)

started out using the millermatic 250 with .035" wire. that was to much power and to big of a wire for the floor, not to mention the welder has not been serviced for quite some time, and the wire might have been to old, but i couldnt get a hot enough arc without burnig though the floor (because ofthe wire being to big) and the welder was not supplieing constant arc (needs to be serviced), so i switched to one of the other welders which was a lincoln idealarc sp 100 wich is not i high end welder by any means, but it is realativly new and the wire size was a nore manigable .023. if the miller was in proper operating condition, and had .030 or so wire, it would be the better choice for the job, but under the circumstances, the smaller lincoln worked much better. was able to get very good penatration without burn through (i was able to leave my gas tank in while doing the rear). if you are looking for a cheap but good welder, i would get one just a little bit bigger than the lincoln sp 100, but for the cost you cant beat it.
just be sure to use quality wire and gas (which is how i got away with using the lower powerd welder) or your welds will look like crap.

thanks
anthony

MCas7

Nice job on the install. I think mine will look a little different than that though. I don't think my rear bars will be that close together.
So how long before you have the car up and driving? I'm very curious to feel the difference in handling.

Post some pics of the installed door bars if you can.
Thanks.

fun Pain

I have been planning on running my 7th and 8th bar (the one's running from the main hoop to the tranny tunnel on your car) to the torque box area. Is there a reason that I haven't see anyone else to it? I did it that way on my fathers 55' (10.3)and my brothers SVO (11.6)and My friend Bill's Supra (11.3) and they all pasted spec

It just makes more sence to me....

@ZZKKER

iTrader: (1)

it will be a while before i drive it everyday, as i still need to build the engine. car is all painted now and the cage is done , except for the stupid swing out kit. having hard time figuring out how to install it, the s & w instructions suck az. i am goin to drive it around a little this weekend to see how much stiffer it really is. here is what the cage looks like. i put the rear bars in closer to the middle for easy instalation and, and there are reinforcing ribs that run under the floor where they mount so it is pleanty strong, plus i had an idea about a couple extra bars that would have a great affect on stiffness. the first set, the rocker bars seen here. these are 1 1/4 .134 wall thickness and help the car the most when the side bars are out, they take the place of them and will make the car feel like they are still in. they connect to the main hoop and the comp eng. sfc's. they also have the 6x6 1/8" steel plates welded to them and the floor were they pass through.

@ZZKKER

iTrader: (1)

this are the rear bars i added in. they make the cage have a real aggressive look and mount as close to the shock/spring perches as posible (right on them),. the fronts mount at the same point that the top side bars mount on the main hoop and add strength to the cage as a whole. they also look bad as hell.

thanks.

anthony

@ZZKKER

iTrader: (1)

i know i am way over the 3 pic limit, but i think these are important for people to see because nobody really has good pics of the cage in full. i hope that the mods will overlook this for that reason.

i will eventually get really good outside pics and replace all of the dark images with them, as all of these pics have been takin insde my shop (poor lighting condtions).

thanks
anthony

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Good Lord you must be pretty tall or just like sitting up pretty straight with those door bars that high. Mine came up and were tacked to the same height as my crossmember bar (about same height as yours).

Looks Great! Those hoop to shocks braces look wicked.

@ZZKKER

iTrader: (1)

i had to put the side bars up that high in order to be nhra legal. any lower and it would not have passed in between my shoulder and elbow.

i am 6 ft tall, but i dont slouch when driving, so i think that is the difference.

thanks
anthnoy

IHI

iTrader: (1)

My door bars come upto roughly the same spot on the hoop, I think with the crossbar mounted way low it just gives the apperance the door bars are higher than normal but they're not.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Ahh that's probably it then. Course probably would help if I looked at my car (been around 5 months since I've drove it). Willing to bet my bars are about the same level also. (I'm around 6'4 or 6'5.)

IHI

iTrader: (1)

LOL, same here. Been sittin in my ma's garage since Nov.-I bought her old house and she never had a garage So after next month once I have the new roof, windows, siding on I'm gonna get a home equity loan and get the shop of my dreams going.:P I looked where his bars were in relation to the door height where the window comes up and then looked at pics of mine when I installed it, bout the same. Crossbar really throws off perception. When I installed mine I install it so it tied in at roughly the same height on the hoop the door bars were welded at, astetics and funtion, plus the mounting point for my harness is still below my shoulder line like it needs to be.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, When I scribed in my lines with a white cranyon I had to kind of slouch. Even with the hoop touching off the liner I didn't have enough space between. LOL So now I'm just gonna have to slouch a little bit if the Techs ever want to inspect it... (Course I'm 2-3 hours from a 1/4 dragstrip so that doesn't matter).

Yeah, I had to kind of mod the seat a little bit. I couldn't find a decent attachment for the left lap belt. So I made a left over steel plate (cut from the transmission crossmember support bars) conformed to the sheet metal floor to mount a tab on. It worked out nicely though. Well the cutting on the seat came in when I found out I botched up my mounting of the tab and my seat wouldn't go all the way back. I just cut 1" worth of plastic off the back side lip on seat.

Maybe sometime I can finish up the new motor (which is being built in my bedroom... sucks not having a solid floor of your garage. Course I kind of like the smell of the all 50w oil and assembly lube.)

IHI

iTrader: (1)

LMAO! "You know your a gear head when....you assemble you engine in your bedroom!" Fill in with back ground noise from apocolips?sp now movie " I love the smell of 50W in the morning"
Yeah, no garage sucks big time. My last house had a descent garage and a double corner lot. Now I'm stuck in a typical suburb house with neighbors on both sides of me. If it was'nt for the fact I had $30K in equity-Ma hooked me up on price- when I bought it I would've stayed where I was at and built new like we were planning on doing. Oh well.

Our cars were'nt designed for tech compatibility if your over 4' tall. I'm average at 5'10" with the 4th gen seats and my helmet on, I continually bump my helmet on the ridge/border of the sun roof. Otherwise I look like Forest Gump with my head tilted sideways so my helmet will go up into the sunroof area-bout 7/8" higher than the headliner. If worse ever came to worse I always race with the seat pulled close to the wheel and I could pimp out with the seat reclined, but that's really uncomfortable-how the helll do the kids roll like that anyways?

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Just so we don't get way off topic... hehe

Anyone found a nice set of seats that will clear all the roll bar stuff nicely and still give me a big width? I was thinking about getting some measurements and doing an ebay hunt eventually after the new motor on was in.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

4th gen, but I gots a normal width

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Hehe... don't be poking fun of me. I'll probably just look around ebay and get a cheapy set that fits.

MCas7

Well my interior is all removed and the car is ready for the install. It should happen this week if the stupid snow holds off. I posted some pics up on my website if anyone wants to take a peek.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

is it me or do the Spohn door bars look like it will be even harder to get in and out of our cars now? I have the C cage and all I have left to do is the door bars. I was gonna get those spohn bars but after looking at that pic I think Im gonna just keep my CE bars and turn them inboard a little to clear the arm rest.

anyone have pics of where the hoop is mounted to the floor? pics without intrior installed please

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Yeah clearance bars would be a pita. I went clearanced with dual swing outs and it's easy as cake to get in and out. There not exactly "Spohn" there really S&W RaceCars. Once and awhile S&W has sells on stuff so you might check out their website.

MCas7

Well dual swing out bars are fine if you don't want to keep your stock arm rests. That is the whole point of getting the bars that clear the armrests, so you don't end up with stupid looking arm rests. If you're worried about comfort, then you probably shouldn't be getting a roll bar anyways. Most, if not all, of the people that even install a roll bar race their cars or have very limited street driving.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

I don't understand. The swing out kits are sold just as kits. There made to install on any door bar even the clearanced ones. Theres no need to get all mad about it. The swing outs are certified by NHRA so you can run them to what like a 7.50 sec 1/4 I think. Here's pic of my installation in my daily driver. The new 383 short block is in my bedroom along with the AFR 210cc heads and all the rest of the parts.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Here's a smaller pic which shows the door arm rests are still intact.

MCas7

After seeing you pictures, I realized that you're right (obviously). I wasn't mad, I was just stating my opinion (which was obviously un-informed). My appologies if you took it the wrong way.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

No problem. On a side note I would recommend the Comp Eng. Swing out kits if there anything like the pics in Jegs. The S&W are 2 piece (upper and lowers) which work out but you have to worry about distortion when welding. I had to take a die grinder to mine a little bit cause you couldn't get the pen to even go in the hole. The Comp Eng. ones look like there just 1 piece so there holes should be aligned already.

Hey BOTTLEDZr28 If you still want pics of the main hoop I can pull up some of the carpet and take some shots for you. But mine wasn't installed like the kit. I moved the hoop back ontop of the rear seat platform due to my height I need'd the front seats as far as it would go.