trigger GTA

has anyone done one? or have pic of one, or any kind of info one that has been done?

thanks scott

AGood2.8

Impossible with a unibody car.

trigger GTA

said who?

Impossible is not an answer. how about some reasons why not with a unibody car?

AGood2.8

Well basically, you would have to completely torch out the subframe and floorboads from under the body. Then you would have to find a way to maintain its integrity and shape as you try and attach it back to a tube chassis. 1st question is- where would you mount it? This is not like any old car with a body and frame that are separate. Car bodies that sit on frames have mount tab locations and structural body support leading to those mount locations. The entire subframe is you structural support on a unibody car. Keep the unibody in tact and add tubular support under it (a.k.a.- via subframe connectors)

Or- you could just build a Trans Am type car with body panels and make it look like a 3rd gen- but how much cash you got?

trigger GTA

hmmm nothing you said is imposable
after the body was on the frame it would not be taking any of the stress it is now. i would just be the mater of getting it on

is there body kits out there for the trans am style that can be dropped onto a frame of my choise?

that might be the better way to go.


as for my budget. it is high for the car. moer than i should

AGood2.8

Your not understanding the design of the car. The body IS the frame. It is impossible.

ede

considering all the thirdgen f bodys used in comp eliminator and pro stock a tube frame wouldn't be impossiable but it would be very unrealistic. like mr. 2.8 said the body is the frame. if you want to stiffen it up go with SFCs and all the other bracing. if that isn't enought add a cage like a SS car has.

CrazyHawaiian

You would be better off building a tube chassis (stock car chassis maybe?) and draping it with a fiberglass 3rd gen body shell. Forget trying it with the stock production 3rd gen Camaro. These cars are uni-body.

trigger GTA

the purpose of the full frame was not to add extra strength to the car. but to allow me to run the suspension setup of my choice in both the front and rear of the car.

I have no intention of making this into a drag car or will be running 1000+hp. I want to setup a car that will turn and take the corners hard.

I am hearing allot of "imposable" we all know that nothing is imposable. impractical... maybe. Not worth my time or money... most likely. but not imposable

I have continued to do some research on this and I have found a company that makes full frames for unibodys.

http://www.google.com/catalogs?dq=&h...tpage=6&zoom=2


i took the time to call them today and see what they had to offer. told them what i had in mind. they seemed to think it was posable


I still don't see why you could not cut out the old sub frames and add a full frame in to replace it. the full rail could run right where the sub frame connectors would go. you are using the SFC to make 2 halfs into one. why not just replace it with 1?

now dont get me worng i could be right out to lunch. thats why i and doing as much research as posable.

thanks for all your help

scott

laiky

many unit body drag cars have tube frames but they actually tie into the unit body. I have seen prostreeters with full cages that tie into new front tubular frames and frame rails in the rear for suspension mounting. That is for drag racing though. You could "backhalf" your car as many drag racers do and go with some form of custom made suspension, same in the front but that will require a full roll cage to connect the two. If i were to really let my imagination go i would guess you could cut out the unit body frame rails, remove the front subframe use a backhalf style kit with extensions to mate up to a custome front subframe made to accept the front suspension you want. Thats a whole lot easier to write than to do though. if you have the skills or money to accomplish this go ahead and please post pictures!!!

PhilM

i am unclear whay you would want to do this if you aren't racing or putting huge power in it. every body summed it up already. cutting out the rear "frame rails" of a unibody is a particular problem with these cars as the rear frame rails are not parallel and centered in the third gen body. so you would have to make some weird bends in your new frame rails if you wanted to put them where the old ones were. hope that makes sense. the best way is to get a rear frame kit from S & W or another chassis company and cut out the rear floors and frame.

and nothing is impossible with a welder and some time.

AGood2.8

I going to beat this like a dead horse- You people need to get under your cars and look how the frame and body are tied together (everywhere). Look at the frame and strut mount areas- look at the rear chassis spring can area- Look at the tranny tunnel that is the inner subframe. You cut out the entire underneath of the car and you will have a mush body that is exposed to the road. good luck trying to sucessfully tie the body back onto a frame without adding more weight than you took off. Thats the whole idea of a unibody car- it saves weight. Just add SFC's and a cage- your done.

Are you aware how much heavier that Art Morrison frame will make your car after you weld in a birdcage of supports to hold the body together?, AND its only designed for straight line dragracing.

PhilM

Nobody is arguing that it is overkill for his intent. a cage would do more than enough. the idea of cutting out the floor and installing a rear frame kit is not impossible, and for crying out loud it happens all of the time. when you cut out the floor to install an aftermarket frame, the body is no longer handling the stress it did before, that is why you are installing the frame! enough with the impossible already.

trigger GTA

go back and take a look in their catalog on page 11 its the max g

now tell me that is for drag racing.

one more time. the hole perpose of this in NOT for drag racing. i would like to change the front suspention and rear to something more suted for road racing.


the max g lets you run a IRS, IFS, C5, and a few other suspentions or any combination of them.

trigger GTA

i was only looking into the idea/cost/time/work etc. that would be involved in it

just trying to get some ideas of what i can do. odds are it will not happen. but you never know

i will still be running a good chunck of power in it. Lt1 383 with 400hp

AGood2.8

You want a C5 suspension? I would suggest buying a new C5- It would be cheaper.

Technically, no its not Impossible to do anything If you want to be heII bent on the subject It can be fitted if made to the correct wheel base. however, it will be IMPOSSIBLE to make it handle as well as the car did before you altered it. You've just wasted your money. Your seats will be higher (it'll cut down your headroom) and you will add a ton of weight with that "page 11 'G' frame". That is not a performance frame, its a heavier duty classic car frame that is x-braced forsupporting the older and much heavier classic car bodies for semi peformance street driving.

You asked about a "full tube frame" Here is an example of a "full tube frame" and not the heavy box frame you are addressing- get this to fit for under $100,000- like I said- figuratively impossible, very foolish and unrealistic for what? I won't handle any better that your car stripped and caged. Trust me, I know my sh*t when it comes to all out suspensions. My car, the way it sits right now, will eat a stock C5 in a corner! I have prooven this many times.

http://www.howeracing.com/Chassis/In...tition-ASA.htm

I am not arguing with you to be an ***- I am agruing with you to save you a hwhole heck of alot of money and greif.

Note: that frame new and mass produced (Costs less because it is not custom made- yours would be) will still cost you $60K minimum to piece together complete- $100K for all out. Fit a custom frame like this under your heavy metal F-body and put normal street components like a C5 setup- for what? Then try and balance a proper chassis geometry into that- it will take you years and $$$$ hacking and welding to hopefully someday get it handling fairly balanced. It take alot more than you think to completely design a chassis with limited weight proportions of a Heavy existing upper body tied in mickey moused.

Impossible.

Lee7

do you want it to just look (externally) like an FBody? or do you want it to have an FBody interior too?

It would be pretty hard to build a space (tube) frame and just chop up an FBody and slap the fenders, roof, sail panels, etc onto it. But it would be possible... It would take tons of measurements and planning to do something like that, Just think about how you would go about getting the back hatch on there correctly.

The best thing to do would be to probably just chop off the front crossmember and all the releated front suspension stuff and rebuild the whole front end around your custom suspension design. You could easily put an adjustable 4-link setup in the rear after the old suspension stuff is removed. Doing it this way would allow you to keep the structural rigidity of the frame, and still allow you to have a fully customizable suspension.

Morley

Not impossible, this exact thing was done to a 2nd gen firebird. The entire write up was in CraCraft about 12+ years ago.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Dude.......all you need to do to make a 3rd-gen F-body handle EXTREMELY well is to do the following:

sub-frame connectors
1-LE springs (cut to lower car by 1 inch)
good shocks and struts
LCA's with relocating brackets
Adjustable Torque arm
Adjustable pan-hard bar
Wonderbar
Poly motor and tranny mounts
Poly bushing kit

With all the above, your car will handle like it's on rails !!!

If you want to further improve on this, you could change out the rear end for a C4 IRS (It's been done several times on these cars).

Then switch to a tube - k, bigger sway bars, and a cage

Run 17 inch wheels with road racing tires.

With all that done, I'm sure it would handle even better than a C5

And it would be less expensive than building a tube chassis and trying to hang 3rdgen body panels on it!

Just my $.02

trigger GTA

i under stand that. as i too am not arguing with you to be as *** but to learn things. when i get a reply back "imposable" i realy did not learn to much.

so what would you sudjest for a set up?

Lee7: inside too


1bad91Z: is the tube k not just for drag?

AGood2.8

You want all out handling then I would first use spohn SFC's, then cage the car.

Now when you build the cage for handling (not just safely like most are) you NEED to tie it through the firewall and trangulate down to the framerails to the sides of the motor. that will greatly stiffen the front to mid section chatter (aka-dash board chatter). This is a weak point in the cars when combined with big spring rates. SFC's do not brace the firewall area of the frame. Also the rear of the cage needs to tie into the upper spring can areas and upper panhard rod mount. I then would X-brace it from the rear spring area- down through the rear seat area- and finally tie the x-brace into the floorbard are on your roll bar risers that should tie into the Spohn SFC's. You chassis will be sooo rigid , you will be done with that. Time to focus on the suspension upgrades.

You really want to handle? stripe the car of roll weight because you will add alot with the cage. (Carpet, door panels, side windows, headliner, passengerseat, etc....

AGood2.8

Sorry about the spelling errors, I need to learn to check for errors before I hit reply. My PROBATION OFFICER will not allow me to edit my posts currently.

Theres a "ARE" that should be "AREA" after "FLOORBARD"which should be... well you got that one I'm sure.

ontogenesis

i think this is about as close as your gonna get

CrazyHawaiian

Damn bro you pretty much listed everything I have planned for my 89 RS Drift Project (full chassis cage, gutting the doors and all). Stop giving away my secrets !! j/k hehehh!!!

ontogenesis

sorry about that, my probation won't let me edit my posts, the link to the pic with...about as full tube as your gonna get is here

http://www.freewebs.com/level7racing/img%5F0062.jpg

trigger GTA

anyone picked up the newest issue of high performance pontiac????jan 04

in it is a story about a 82 trans am with a full tubed chassy and roll cage using the stock unibody. starts on page 55

i will admit that the inside is not as wellset up as i would like but.. hay it is a race car.

trigger GTA

now that getting closer to what i had in mind but its for drag and i want track.

still good to see. thanks man

ps any more pics?

ontogenesis

nope, thats all i got, sorry