Lee7

Well, about 2 weeks ago, i was able to drive my freinds fathers Lamborgini Diablo around for about an hour. And i LOVED it, its not the fact that the acceleration was blindingly fast, the suspension is what i like most.

As most of you know, Diablo's are very low and wide, so they should naturally handle better than a car that is higher off the ground, and less wide.

I drive an 89 2.8L stock Firebird, that i would like to make handle as close to a Diablo as possible. (No body roll, good traction, etc) I plan to drop a build 383 into it sometime next summer, as i will be getting the engine block soon) but for now, i will be keeping the 2.8.

I did a little bit of looking around, and i see that most people recomend subframe connectors first. Jegs has the Hotchkis Subframe Connectors for $187, they are bolt in and clear the factory exaust. I has access to a MIG Welder, so if needed i could always weld and bolt them.

What i really need help on is the Shocks and Springs. Like i said earlier, i plan to drop a 383 into it, so i would like to get springs that would work on my v6, and also on the v8. Eibach Sportline Lowering Springs should lower my car if i had a v8, but if i had a v6, it should keep it at stock, or close to stock ride hieght, correct?

I have no clue about the shocks, so would someone please recomend some that are low priced and function well too? (i dont think i need adjustable ones)

Bushings too, which ones do i get?

I guess thats all for now.

Thanks in advance for answering my questions.

MdFormula350

well i would also look into some better/thicker sway bars because that would increase you handling a great deal.
a good combo is 36mm up front with 24mm in the rear.

sfc's are good to have for any thirdgen, v6 or 383
run some searched on these other to name a few brands: alston, spohn.

as far as shocks and struts you would most likely want to get adjustable ones for fine tuning.

like the Tokico Illumina 5-Way Adjustable Shocks & Struts or the http://www.spohn.net/index.cfm?fusea...t&productid=64

but if u dont want adjustable ones look into these Bilstein "HD" Shocks & Struts Package or these Koni Special "Reds" Shocks & Struts Package

as far as springs i think the low stance of the sport lines would work nicely.

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

My car will outhandle a 3rd gen RX-7, as I've proven to my coworkers on numerous occassions That car is known and as an excellent handling car, among other things. Probably as good as or better than that PIG of a Diablo.

All I have done are cut springs, 17x9 wheels with sticky tires, aftermarket rear LCA's, subframes, and larger sway bars.

87daddyformula

Ok, lets put the third-gen side by side with the diablo:

Diablo Third-gen F-Body
Independent rear suspension solid rear axle

state of the art electronically yeah right!!
controlled suspension tunning

tires that are wider than they are 285/xxRxx if you
tall want to push it

light weight aluminum engine cow of a cast iron block

rear suspension mounted directly all suspension mounted
to the transmiton to the unibody

double A-arm front suspension one word for ya "struts"

engine in the rear (I think) almost entire car over the
front two wheels

I might be wrong on some of this information but my point is that the Lamborghini Diablo (depending on what year) is in a whole other class. As they are now our cars would be better compared to a NASCAR (speaking in terms of suspension). Not to get down on our cars, because *** knows I love them to death, but there is a reason why Lamborghinis are so expensive. That is not to say that you can't make a third-gen handle like one; it would take a lot of planning and a lot of custom work. There are tremendous gains in handling to be had from some of the after market stuff that is out these days, but most of the stuff is over priced and won't get you as close to diablo handling as you would hope. I would say that you should get some performance handling books and read about the dynamics of all the different suspension set ups and find out which one is right for your application. Also, don't just take my word for it; do your own research and make your own decisions, you are the only one that truely knows your car, the way you drive it, and how you want it to perform. I will tell you that to truely achieve world class handling you have to consider weight, weight distribution, weight transfer, road imperfections and how your car will react to those imperfections, aerodinamics, and tire contact patch. I am probably leaving something out but as you can see there is more to think about than meets the eye. As I get down off my soap box I will leave you with this thought; a car is more than the sum of its parts, but rather how those parts work in concert with eachother to achieve the final outcome.

87daddyformula

The side by side comparison format didn't come out right when the link was actually posted. All I was trying to point out was the differences in suspension set up and engine location/weight. I think you will get my drift...sorry!

John Millican

iTrader: (1)

You really don't have to do alot to a 3rd gen to get GREAT handling from it. These are very well designed cars.

Diablo isn't light years ahead in terms of handling either. They only do a 0.99g on a 200' skidpad.

By comparasion, a 1991 RS pulled a 0.95g on the same skidpad and that's stock, no modifications at all.

Back in June 2000 CHP did a article on a 91 Z28, it pulled 1.01g's and 62.3 mph 275/40-17 BFG g-force KD on 17x9.5 wheels. before adjusting the panhard rod to center the rear, it was .96g and 59.2mph.

There's your "Diablo" killer. A very, very cheap alternative to spending how much for the import?

AGood2.8

Mine pulls 1.07 g's on street tires- I have a lightweight V6, better weight bias front to rear.

Spdfrk1990

2.8 you should get you a LS1 and have the best of both worlds

TransAm12sec

The Diablo is very different in suspension components. 87daddyformula, that's a good comparison.

I would just stick to upgrades for the car. Spohn at the top of this page has many things to help.

AGood2.8

I building a 240hp lightweight 3.4 for this car as we speak(Stock 2.8 is 135hp). I like having a built 60*v6 they are rare to see. I have a 540 rwhp '68 Vette so I don't keed another car that is too hot for the street- want something different, everyone has a V8.

Spdfrk1990

thats kewl i respect that what would be nice also is a tta engine Sorry but they r awsome a guy last week parked by me at the cruize in had a grand national that ran 10's it was nice

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

John Millican - Was your car taped for Speedvision's American Muscle Car on the SLP cars? I have that taped, and your car looks just like it...

John Millican

iTrader: (1)

Yes it was shown on Speedvision. I have the tape too.

That was back when it was slower. It had the stock TPI feeding a 383 stroker.

My best friend Bernard Tripp (GMTech) has a black TransAm that was also shown too on the same tape. It was only a under hood short with some commentary.

They were there looking for a totally stock 3rd gen to make famous. They couldn't find one.

Tom84L69

Peak lateral G numbers are not all there is to it. While a Diablo may not pull extraordinary numbers going around in a circle, it will work very well on a road course. This is due to more optimized geometry than a camaro, better balance (though it is tail heavy) and bigger tires and brakes. I guess all I am trying to say is how do you define handling? If it is peak later forces, sticky tires are all you need, for a good road racer, you need a whole package of modifications to make a Camaro turn times equal to a Diablo (not to mention about 550 hp)

AGood2.8

???

That is why cars are tested on skid pad & slolam. Slalom pertains to handling or transition ability through a timed course of cones. I guarantee my V6 will clean a Diablo's *** in a slolam as well as the skidpad- why?- because the Diablo is too wide for low race speed agility. They only shine in high speed courses with wide drifts like LeMans,etc... where high speed stability and aerodynamics come into play.
Put it on a smaller road coure and it will get its *** cleaned.

Tom84L69

Agood2.8, your car has the whole package to make it handle well in nearly all aspects. My point was that a stock f body can be made to pull very high G numbers with only the addition of sticky tires. I do not consider that "diablo handling." To make an F body handle a road course as well as a Diablo, it needs more substantial upgrades than tires alone, as you well know.

rx7speed

which one?
the touring, base, or R1/2?

touring I can see happening kinda
base still kinda
R1/2 I doubt
very much so for the r1


also a lot of that depends on driver
but I'm sure you already konw that

rx7speed

honestly I doubt that car would be diablo killer

again not trying to talk bad
but it seems you put WAY too much faith in skidpad numbers
a skidpad is nothing morethen a static rate turn , on smooth surface with a static susp load, static throttle possition,

you get the idea?
everything is static, no variables
it doesn't give any real idea as to what the car would do when something else happens. ie pothole, s turn, decreasin radius turn and so on

now slolam doesn't give all the info either but it gives a very good idea as to what would happen in a dynamic world a little better
and with thta in mind check that out a whole 62mph on a modified thirdgen?


doesn't sound that great to me

rx7speed

thank you tom

another thing though is the tail heavy is sometimes considered good
notice a lot of high end sports cars are tail heavy?


gives a faster turn in, responce, easier to kick the rear end out if you need to yet also easy to understeer if the time comes as well

rx7speed

how else could you test handling?
take it to a raod course
not everyone is able to do that though to compare times
also a road course would be total package... handling acceleration and speed

skidpad and slolam are really the only thing that have to kinda test with
but still they must be taken with a grain of salt
niether one give the full story

paul_huryk

The Diablo and third gens are totally different cars, by design and what they are meant to do.

The Diablo is a high end ($200k+) exotic that caters to the very rich that like performance and prestige. That means the car has to be very fast, handle very well, look off the wall, and be very sexy - it all adds up to paying as much as a small house.

The thirdgen is a mass-produced everyday performance car - they came out in 1982 and were made until 1992, they made close to 1,000,000 cars in those 11 years - maybe 5,000 lambos were made in the same period. Obviously there are different levels of third gens - from a base 4 cylinder stripped to a loaded L98 or TTA. But in my eyes, that is a good thing - parts are interchangable and aftermarket items are common. As a matter of fact a fully tweaked thrid gen using factory parts and some tweaking is one hell of a car for not much $ - a full-on car will hand any exotic its ***. You can put a 1,000hp engine into a thirdgen, but can you find one for a Diablo? nope.

Back to suspension...

First of all, the Diablo has an advanced suspension - becuase it has to for the price and also for the level of performance & comfort buyers expect. Independent front and rear suspension with *** knows what design and rear engine/trans. The car is *** heavy like a 911 so there are huge tires on the rear and skinny boys up front (the biggest is a 245 in front). They are also extremely heavy - 3900lbs+. The weight also impacts top speed - no tires can handle much above 200mph in a 3900lb car, so top speed is slightly sacrificed.

But the third gen is a model of simplicity and modularity in terms of suspension and everything else. A base camaro with a 28mm front bar (and no rear bar) can be upgraded to a 36mm/25mm combo in 30 minutes. Same thing with speings, shock/struts, reinforcement pieces (wonderbar) and rubber. Speaking of rubber, depending on the year and model of third gen, they came with tires ranging from a 205-70-14 to a 245-50-16. Of course you can fit a 275-40-17 at all corners with a 315 in rear if you are precise. With the large range of parts, lower weight, and easy modifications, a third gen can out skidpad a Diablo and run as good as (and possibly better) in the slalom. I'm talking about fully loaded street cars, not SCCA wringers either. Oh yeah, don't forget that an f-body can have mega brakes and bulletproof drivetrains also - actually a strong thirdgen could outrun the diablo in top speed too, but that is another story.

rx7speed

are you sure that a thirdgen would be able to take a diablo as easy as you make it sound


diablo 202mph last I heard

paul_huryk

A 200mph thirdgen is not even a challenge, a stock bodied one can do it with 500hp - an aero massaged one may be able to push 200 with about 400-425hp. A strong 383 is good for 500hp, all you need to do is gear it right...

The doorslammer record is held by a thirdgen: 300mph with 1300hp - a Lingenfelter 1992 TA. Last I heard it was at least 75mph haster than anything out of Italy.

Tom84L69

All I can say is apples to oranges folks.

rx7speed

and I counter run what you brung

89' RS/blue

Well i added KYB GR2 struts and shocks and then the Eibach Pro Kit springs along with a complete energy suspension bushing replacement of stock. It made it handle pretty damn good so far.

laiky

I think the point here is the satisfaction one gets from smoking an italian supercar with an old fashioned solid axel pushrod CHEVY. Sure it can be done, but its not easy. Thats why its so gratifying. Besides wouldn't you feel stupid if your car that costs as much as a home and was built by a legendary builder got outrun by an old camaro? Anybody remember Dan Gottlieb's big red camaro??

AGood2.8

I was just reading this post and getting rerady to mention Big Red. Too funny you had the same thought.

RX- Do you realise the Lambos that have tried and not even come close to the '68 areodynamic brick Camaro that hold the Silverstate record as well as the fastest speeding ticket in the U.S.A. ever- They clocked him by police airplane going across the Arizona dessert at 223MPH. That again was a "brick '68 Camaro" and not a streamline 3rd gen. The car has now in later years topped 240mph. Whats that Lambo cost? at least twice what it cost to build Big Red.

laiky

even more interesting, it was a 4 speed stick shift car with a carbed 540. NO OD just 273's and a load of RPM. Ironically one year he got a speeding ticket on his way to the race, 55 in a 35. Not long after i believe he was banned for being too fast!

rx7speed

never knew that


I do thank you for the info though

Dingley

iTrader: (1)

i don't think that people buy lambos for the suspension and speed.... although that's a huge gambit. i think the main reason for it is for the prestige of owning one. the whole reason for owning one is to pull up to a stop light and have the person next to you stare in awe.

i hope to own one some day.... maybe...... hopefully....

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

All were base. One even had some aftermarket 17" wheels with VictoRacers on it. And make no mistake, the coworker who drove the RX's is quite skilled. He's a probably a bigger RX-7 guy than you He's got a 93 single T66 (I think?), hacked front bumper with a HUGE homemade FMI and 3.5" piping that I beg him to go run around town in. Last time at Capitol it went 122MPH The R1 I road tested wasn't noticably tighter than any other RX-7. Then again I don't drive one everyday.

rx7speed

the actuall paper stas on the R1 are quite a bit better
on par for skidpad better for slolam with the z06


also putting a FMIC on a FD is generally a bad idea

and a t66.... for road racing... isn't that alittle large?

no offence to you but I cna maybe see you out handling a stock rx7 with what you have but hard to see you actually outcorner one that has much for mods


main way I can see it happening is on an auto-x course where that turbo would prolly kill him

again not trying to say your wrong... but just giving my input

but yeah I can see you being close if not a little better vs a stock base/touring as far as pure turn in itself

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

Like I said, I've proved it many a time!

The single turbo 93 is NOT a road race car. It's setup for drag/street racing. Boost comes on around 3600RPM and the car just rockets off. 2nd gear in that car is insane. We've yet to run ANY car that could keep up from a 2nd gear roll until triple digit speeds - and we've run several known 10 second cars. And the homemade FMI gained 4MPH in the quarter, so I think it was worth it...

All runs were made on a nearby back road that is excellent for spirited driving We've never run side by side for obvious reasons, but we have done timed runs. It's roughly 3 miles long, VERY windy going uphill downhill with 2 sharp 90* turns. I'll get the better time by 5-10 seconds every time (the other driver is no slouch either). I average the quarter in 99-100MPH, so the power is about the same.

My car handles VERY well for what little it has.

CrazyHawaiian

Here's my .02.

Its gonna be impossible to build an F-body to handle like a Diablo. Mainly because the two configurations are so different. The real question here should be, Whats the best way to make an F-Body OUTHANDLE a Diablo. Ah now there is a good question, and yes I think it can be done. Correct suspension setup, solid chassis, the right tires, and some weight reduction work and you'll reach your goal. Just remember that supercars use EXTREME parts so you'll have to use EXTREME F-Body parts. The companies you normally see selling street suspension parts might cut it, but I say forget about the street stuff and go stright up race parts.

CrazyHawaiian

Reminds me of my friends Supra. He dyno'd 700+ rwhp

bbunting

I think that I might be able to hang..... even though I run out of gear at 170 MPH. There isn't any car on a road course that has passed me (well there was that one carbon fiber 2100 lb. 750 HP Porsche..)and yes, I run in the "A" group or instructor class every time. Power isn't everything-nobody mentioned BRAKES. You need a well balanced car that can do it all. Slow down from high speed, corner, & accelerate nicely. With sticky Hoosier race tires all around, no problem.

My car trapped 129 mph on radials through the mufflers on 92 octane. And I turned off at the first exit after the pass. But to really see it in action, click on some of the videos in my sig. :rockon:

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

Oh, the stock brakes on that RX7 are insane. Stops on a dime.
I am very impressed with that car. I enjoy riding in it.

rx7speed

stock brakes should be good for 60-0 in around 118 feet or so

CrazyHawaiian

I think bbunting would hold his own. His car is BADASS!! :hail:

(BR)G-Machine

Ya it is off topic but sweet videos man!

RSCamaroGuy92

I think the lambo/camaro thing is like compairing apples to oranges. The only thing the apple & orange have in common is that they are both fruit. The camaro and Lambo are both cars.
However.....
The corvette compairible would stand a better compairison to the lambo just because its a league above our cars. We do not have 200k to buy a car, most of us don't even have 20k to buy a car.

The fact that remains is this, we have FUN with these cars. Who cares what an exotic sports car can do? I Don't! I like what my car can do and I don't care if the whole world knows that I have yet to hit $10k total with all my mods and price of car itself. That what makes these cars what they are. The ability to tune, test, and alter each and every one of them differently to create a uniqueness, but yet a brethren & fellowship among the owners of these great pieces of american machinery.
So stick that in your lambo~lovin turbine wearin a$$e$. Oh, and btw, I can drive my car in PA without tearing it to shreds, can you do that with a lambo? I THINK NOT!!!!

~Peace~

RSCamaroGuy92

I think the lambo/camaro thing is like compairing apples to oranges. The only thing the apple & orange have in common is that they are both fruit. The camaro and Lambo are both cars.
However.....
The corvette compairible would stand a better compairison to the lambo just because its a league above our cars. We do not have 200k to buy a car, most of us don't even have 20k to buy a car.

The fact that remains is this, we have FUN with these cars. Who cares what an exotic sports car can do? I Don't! I like what my car can do and I don't care if the whole world knows that I have yet to hit $10k total with all my mods and price of car itself. That what makes these cars what they are. The ability to tune, test, and alter each and every one of them differently to create a uniqueness, but yet a brethren & fellowship among the owners of these great pieces of american machinery.
So stick that in your lambo~lovin turbine wearin a$$e$. Oh, and btw, I can drive my car in PA without tearing it to shreds, can you do that with a lambo? I THINK NOT!!!!

~Peace~

Odyssey

I think you're FULL of it

AGood2.8

.opps

AGood2.8

Here's for the skeptic
http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...=363222&page=3

AGood2.8

Hey "Diaper Rash", I think your full of it, I'm calling you out- Lets see what YOU have.

bigals87z28

i think your not bsing... not like that irocbirdbuilder guy.... whata jackass.. anyway... your car looks ready to deal with any kinda twisties that they will throw at ya.. i wana see if englishtown has there new road track open... i wana see if i can get my car on there and see how it would do before and after my suspension build up... Diablo also has the aid of AWD, AWESOME brakes, super stiff and high tech suspension parts, and great engine. Also its Italian, so fugeta'bout it! Im sticking behind my culture and saying that any pasta-mobile will out handle 99% of the cars in the world stock for stock, but you cant forget that motor trend found that the 85 iroc had the best handling out of several other cars, including the vette, 300z, Supra, and of course the stang. Also autoweek ran a similar test in 86 and found that the Iroc was still king of the twisties for under 50k(i think). I already have a 36 hollow front and 24 mm rear with poly bushings in... im working twards making my car hug the road with the best of them.

(BR)G-Machine

Just a side note, in Italy they just increased the speed limit to 150 kmph on highways. That would be about 90-100 mph. So a 6 speed would be a necessity, hmmm make that a 6 speed transaxle since he is talking about making a F-body HANDLE like a Diablo!

Spdfrk1990

i wouldnt want to be goin that fast on the highways around here