worldofool

Its a lower chassis brace-this brace will strenghten the area between the lower firewall and the front suspension.
Why do are cars need this I have only seen it for 82-92 f-bodys. Is there a weakness or somthing.
Kurt

AlkyIROC

Never seen such a thing.

Consider that the third gen is considered a unibody car. Unlike the first and second gens, the front subframe isn't attached to the body with rubber bushings and bolts. The third gen front subframe is spot welded to the main part of the body. The front inner fenders are part of the frame since the struts use them to support the car.

Since everything is spot welded together, there isn't a lot of real strength compared to a full frame car. Twisting and turning from driving for many years or abuse from racing can weaken all the joints and squeeks can be heard after a few years.

I suppose a chassis brace will help stiffen the joints. It's not much different than adding sub frame connectors to join the front and rear subframes. This will stiffen the chassis also.

worldofool

I saw it in next gen catalog

ME Leigh

Hes talking about the triangular strut tower brace. No thats not a weak part of the car, it just flexes alittle. These eliminate the flex and provide better handiling.

AlkyIROC

Then it doesn't attach to the "lower firewall and the front suspension". It's attached to the top of the firewall and the top of the strut towers.

A strut tower braces helps keep the top of the struts from flexing especially in hard turns like in autocrossing. Since the inner fenders are only sheet metal, some flexing will occur.

REVLIMIT

thirdgens arent the only ones who need this. ALmost every single car benifits from a STB.

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

Hes talking about the Kenny Brown lower chassis brace....i know they sell for $100, but i have not seen anyone on the boards with one. This has been asked a few times but nobody has any real answers about how much it will help.

Justins86bird

Haven't put it on yet.

drop-top IROC

Isn't it basically an aftermarket 'wonderbar'??

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

im pretty sure it is not the equivalent to the wonderbar because of the way the mounting holes line up. im not sure exact where it goes

82camaro

Not a wonderbar--the wonder bar doesn't attach to the firewall--it's clear up front. Just because someone makes a "lower chassis brace", doesn't mean a third-gen needs it.

Justins86bird

The brace attaches to the left and right subframes right under the firewall, right in front of the tranny pan. Total weight is approx 4 pounds. Hopefully this weekend I'll install it and post some pics.

Playdough

I have one on my 91 Z 'vert. i fgured with that wet noodle of a setup anything that I could put under it to stiffen up would be wise. Did it help any, who knows? I did it the same time I did my KB Subframes, and KB STB. But one my buddies did drive it for a couple days and said its one of the more solid third-gens that hes drove long time and its a convertible. So must have helped alittle.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Bringing this back up... Any news on KB support brace? I was thinking about trying to make one myself.... doesn't look all that hard to do.... I already got a bunch of Spohn products on... Boxed SFC's though I could only weld driverside to tunnel brace in since cats were in the way on passenger side. I also put on Spohn adjustable LCAs and brackets. Just thought support brace would stiffen it up a little more maybe. Hopefully someone will love me buy me the wonderbar for the car this christmas... hehe

CrazyHawaiian

I got one in my garage (KB lower support). I will be putting it on my 91 Z along with the KB supersubs and the global west steering box support. I'm holding off on the STB untill I can figgure out if it clear's r134 A/C.

pokes87iroc

i got something like that on my iroc its between the front sway bar and the steering box. i might be thinking of something diffrent. i know my iroc can take turns pretty sweet.

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

its not the steering brace aka wonderbar!

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, this support brace and the wonderbar are totally different.
The wonderbar goes under the front sway bar so it majorly stiffens up the front end for turning. This support brace just links both SFCs together under the car by the transmission. The support brace doesn't look all that complicated. How does it attach? It looks like it mounts by screws or something. I was wondering if so how would that hold up under high hp street use.... I know regular SFCs that are bolt in elongate the holes over time making them hang and gap over time. Which makes them useless that's why everyone uses weld in type. Of course you can't weld in that bar because there would be no way to drop a transmission out.

BTW, has anyone seen those OEM wonderbars going on Ebay? I saw one the other day going for 60+ bucks and it was only painted another one was going 80-90 when I saw it and it had powdercoating on it. Why would you spend that much for a used piece when you could get a BMR one from thunderracing.com 60 bucks with it powdercoated?

MdFormula350

so where does the kenny brown brace connect to?

Justins86bird

The brace attaches to the left and right subframes right under the firewall, right in front of the tranny pan.

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

does it seem like we are going around in circles or is it just me. Please someone install it and take some pics so we can all be at peace.

Justins86bird

:lala:

I'll install mine one of these days.

MdFormula350

so the wonderbar bolts right under the sway bar...

and the kenny brown lower chassis brace bolts in in front of the tranny pan...

thanks alot! sounds like i will add that to my strut tower bar and subframe connectors list!!

25THRSS

ever get around to installing it?

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

doesnt look like it, but if i have an extra $100 at the end of the summer i might just buy one so we can finally see one of these things installed.

Justins86bird

Nope. Hopefully I'll get around to doing it with my torque converter swap. Got a d/s loop to put on too, plus a tq arm.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

I've always wondered how do the brackets work? Do you just bolt the bar to them and have the brackets weld in place on the SFCS? Keep us informed on the after effects of it.

I've added a wonderbar over winter and man does it make a difference. I liked the feeling so much I sprung and put a 8 point roll bar (with x brace on rear bars) in also and that stiffened it up even more. A older first design spohn tq arm with rod end and a ds loop (ebay bought for 28 bucks shipped).

Maybe if the KB bar gives more support I'll use one of those too.

TwinTurboROC

some of the lt1 and ls1 car have those.... believe for them its called a G-Load brace.... (i didnt read thru the whole post so i dont know if anyone mentioned this b 4)

Justins86bird

2 holes per side have to be drilled into the subframes using the brace as a temple. Then the brackets slide into the subframe thru the large oval openings in the subframe. When in place, the brackets bolts will go thru the holes in the frame and the brace gets bolted to that.

Justins86bird

This is bolted right under the firewall, the g-load brace is farther back near the tranny xmember.

Matthew91-Z28

OK....now I'm confused. You guys sure this is what you think it is?



From Thunderracing:

"The Kenny Brown steering support brace attaches to the steering box on your 1982-1992 F-Body and crosses to the opposite frame rail, strengthening your chassis and improving structural rigidity and steering feel. A must have when improving the performance and handling of your thirdgen Camaro or Firebird! "


Here is the order info:

"22-18005 Kenny Brown Lower Chassis Support Brace, 82-92 F-body Hardtop/T-top "

Here is the pic included with it:

TwinTurboROC

IS'nt that a kenny WONDERBAR?

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, not this again, THIS IS NOT THE WONDERBAR, IT IS NOT THE STEERING BRACE!!!!!!!!
It is a lower chassis brace that connects 2 sides of the subframe together somewhere between the oil and tranny pans.

I am just curious if anyone has installed one yet and has pictures.

Justins86bird

Let me reassure everyone, this is NOT a wonderbar. Totally different brace.

TwinTurboROC

ok i gotch ya, but why is thunder saying it connects to the steering box.... ive seen the 4th gen g load brace... so what gives... now im confused....

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

for some reason on thunder's new website they have the lower chassis brace grouped with the "wonderbars" when before it was grouped with the subframe connectors.

CaysE

Someone let's put this to rest! Install the damn thing!!

The black line is my rough illustration of where the Lower Chassis Support Brace goes. A wonderbar (also known as a steering brace or steering box brace... it's the same thing!) goes right underneath the radiator at the front of the car. You can't see it in this picture. I hope this clears up a few things.

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

exactly......hopefully Spohn or Lon from TDS will make a lower chassis brace that they can offer for half the price of the kenny brown brace. It is basically just a wonderbar with different mounting brackets and possibly alittle longer, so there shouldnt be much of a price different between the two. If i could get one for around $50 i would throw it on just for the hell of it, im a suspenion parts ***** and proud of it

George

Anyone know what these are - they're for thirdgens but I dont know where they install or what exactly they do:

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

i believe those are front end braces, i thought i remembered seeing them under the front of the car.

Orinackra

The left two connect to the front of the k-member, the right one goes under the battery ties to the frame.

studdmstr

That's what I was thinking too.... but for $100 that's a little pricey. I'd definitely put one on if it was around $50 or less. But lets see some pics of this thing installed already!

Matthew91-Z28

Thanks for clearing that up. Six of one and a half-dozen of the other. Although some may refuse to believe you based on them being so adamant that 'this is clearly nothing like a wonder bar'.


The "g-load brace" (BTW) is a 4th gen tunnel brace, made by granatelli, that includes a driveshaft safety loop with it.


Love to have a tunnel brace on my ride.

CaysE

I think I may have worded my description a little wrong. The black line in my picture is not a wonderbar.

Wonderbar = Steering Brace = Steering Box Brace = not in my picture.

The lower chassis brace is what I drew in. It is different from the wonderbar.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Hey Justins86bird,

Have you gotten around to installing it yet? I just want a little feedback on how much it helps and how hard the install and stuff is before I shell out the cold hard cash for one.

Justins86bird

Nope, not yet. I have a ton to do, just always something else comes up.

CaysE

Ah come on, it's four bolts! Put it on! Take a picture! We're dying over here!!!

25THRSS

ok, so if it bolts to basically the same area as the wonderbar, then why get one if you already have a wonderbar?

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

The KB support != wonderbar. The KB support bolts to up around the firewall area. The wonder bar boltsup to the front sub frame under the radiator.

Matthew91-Z28

Just FYI; when GM introduced the C4 vert in 96, they added a structural support piece (among others) just like the one in casey's drawing. Guess what they called it? A "wonderbar".


Isn't that piece in AGood2.8's chassis a modified tranny crossmember? It looks awfully suspect like the pic below.

If so, there is no way the KB piece mounts the same. Look at its shape and mounting points. Right?