Jason E

So, after a week and much whining and moaning on here, I need some advice as to what I should ultimately do with the front end of my car. Here's my options:

1) Have my uncle carefully cut out part of a coil to make the TRW springs ride right, but then suffer with an even worse ride. The thing rides like a truck now....urbman, where did you find the 700 lb/in rating for these springs??? I never saw a rating for these springs...

2) Spend $120 dealer cost on OEM ones, and another $55 for an hour of labor for the dealer to put them in...at least this way, I get a 12/12 warranty that they'll sit right AND factory ride back...

3) Wait longer and see if they settle. This I VERY much doubt. Why?? The damn front end barely jiggles if you just about jump up and down on the front fenders. I had my 150 lb friend sit over the RF wheel, and the spring barely compressed down 1/4"!!!! The back has normal, expected motion...everyone I have shown the front to says its way too tight...everyone agrees its so tight, it will not compress and settle

So whats the opinion?? Should I spend $175 on putting OEM ones in? Is 1 hr labor about right from a dealer?? I haven't asked yet. Also, will I need to get another alignment if they change only the springs?? Does anyone here know if Advanced Auto Parts (or any nationwide chain) will take back installed parts if they do not work right??? I can show the damn manager how bad the car sits!!! Thanks for tips...and I promise as soon as this is resolved, I'll stop bitching about my springs on here

AFrikinGoodTime

Jason, I read through your last thread to see where youve been. your ride height was at 28 1/2 f & 27 3/4'' r. you then said you cut more and it rides like a truck. I taped my car and am at 25 1/2'' f & 26 1/8" r. I only have a V6 but I've installed iroc Sport V8 springs 1" Lower onto the car and took off a extra half coil to compensate for the lightweight V6, knowing that anytime you cut a spring it will INCREASE the spring rate. Im an "oldschool" racer that believes in stiff springs not that new soft dual rate springs used in alot of cars nowdays. When you do this you NEED a heavy duty racing shock/strut to dampen the rebound stiffness of a high rate spring. If not it will ride like a truck (Dong... Dong...Dong). With the high spring rate I have combined with the lightweight V6 my car still rides comfortably stiff (performance in mind). If you don't like stiff, go with the stock spring but still use a "quality shock/strut'' for a little better performance with out compromising to much ride quality. By the way, Im a "oldschool" diehard for Koni's. They're not what they used to be but are still great.

urbman

Well...
As far as the 700lb per inch rating number I got it
from some charts built by the Monte Carlo guys.
http://www.monte-list.nu/tech/springs.shtml

With respect to "What to do"...
A lot of folks are negatively predisposed to using "old springs"
The more I have looked at this (looking at old springs)
I don't see any reason not to use "used springs". I have looked
at four sets so far, three sets were BZW's all three sets were within a quarter inch of each other (unsprung length)

This implies that they have never seen loads that exceeded their
fatigue stress ratios. I would reccomend you simply select
a set of used springs from the following chart. Install,
check ride height, trim to get the "look" and call it even.

Your springs can be sold and are useful to the competetive
element here on the site. Autocross, solo I, solo II guys
collect springs like I collect Tequilla :-)

Prod# Code Service #
- - ---------------------------------------------------- (+) Highest load
rate
14029399 BZY 14029399 |
14029398 BZX 14029398 |
14029397 BZW 14029398* |
14029396 CDB 14029396 |
14029395 BXY 14029396* |
14029396 BXX 14029396* (-) Lowest load rate


Rear Springs
______________________________________________________________________
67 RS w/F41 susp
87 Z28 w/FE2 susp

Prod# Code Service #
- - ----------------------------------------------------(+) Highest load
rate
10018083 NNB 10018092* |
10018092 NNM 10018092 |
10018091 NNL 10018091 |
10018093 NNN 10018091 |
10032969 NYB 10018091 (-) Lowest load rate
(from a post by stingerssx)

urbman

PS I would avoid attempting to claim "they don't work right"
You would errr come off as an idiot. I would try "mea culpa"...

Jason E

Well, here's the thing...

1) I had used springs in it...I'd rather not go back and put more used ones in after all this time and grief!! I'd like it to ride correct and sit correct...used springs may stand right unloaded, but load them up and the metal fatigue may become quite apparent...

2) Can I assume that if I put the PROPER front OEM springs in the front, there will not be a problem with ride height?? The back looks and seems to move up and down perfect, but the front is rock solid I figure with a dealer doing it with OEM parts, it SHOULD ride and look the same as factory...but now I assume nothing

3) Do I need to do the alignment again??

AFrikinGoodTime

Sounds to me that you would be happiest with soft ride so use the stock springs. The dealer may be able to test their rate and fatique. They just need to match.

If the ride height is altered from the last alignment setting then the car probabaly will need to be aligned. If it was only slightly (1/2" or less) then probably not but watch for tire wear. Its always best to play it safe and get it aligned.

urbman

>>used springs may stand right unloaded, but load them up and
>> the metal fatigue may become quite apparent...

Errr.. I don't think so...
Among the reasons that folks use "steels" for springs is a
relatively interesting characteristic called the "fatigue limit"

It is defined as the maximum stress at which the material will
withstand an infinite number of completely reversed stress
cycles. Excluding stress risers, changes in section and what not
unless the steel experiences a load that exceeds its "yield
limit" it is not likely to have gotten close to its "fatigue limit".

Sooo... I think that again excluding springs with deformations
changes in section and what not the "unloaded" length is
a pretty good indication of its suitability.

Sooo... unless close inspection reveals otherwise (cracks
stress risers etc) Use your old springs...

Jason E

Thanks for the advice guys...

I'm going to call my uncle's garage tomorrow to see if he still has the old springs kicking around (I didn't feel the need to keep them ). Hopefully they're in a scrap pile out back...if he doesn't have them, off to buy new ones

The car handles AWESOME with these springs, and would handle even better if I cut them...but even though I love sweet handling, the ride is making even a 22 year old flinch!! This car has managed to make it through life with amazingly few rattles...I kinda wanna keep it that way.

So in the final assumption, if I can't get my old ones back I'll have to go new and have a dealer throw them in...at least that way if it doesn't sit right its their headache

Thanks a lot for everyone's help, and for listening to my belly aching...I guess I'll need to spend another $45 on an alignment seeing as how the front end should drop by almost 1" with the OEM springs back in!! Live and learn...next project I do, I'll spend the extra $$ the first time and get the proper stuff!

TomP

They didn't send you the wrong springs, did they? Did you call the company to see what they think? I mean, I could see this problem if this was your old V6 car- but never heard of this with a V8 motor (heavier)! What brand did you get again?

urbman

Just so I'm clear...
You checked against preloaded bushings ?
suspension fully loaded, loosen bolts, retighten...

Jason E

Well, here's the update...

1) urbaman - I did not check for preload yet...been so busy at work by the time I get out its dark!! I will check within the next week though.

2) tom - They're TRW springs, and the part # on the box matched the part # on my receipt...I assume they're right. Could they even fit this car even remotely if they were for the wrong car?

Update:

I've driven it for another week now, and while I haven't measured accurately on a perfect surface, it doesn't LOOK as bad as before. I stopped by my uncle's on Monday, and he said he could immediately see they had settled a little since he put them in...which is true. When I first saw the car it was sitting tall He said I should leave them in and keep driving, and that the springs will continue to settle. I checked our lot...not ONE new Firebird sits perfect!!! They all have more clearance in the rear...one Firehawk has the same pavement to fender crown distance the Formula does!! So maybe he's right about the settling issue...

I just measured outside (slightly broken, uneven pavement), and now I get 27 3/4" (same) for the LR, but the RR now reads higher at 28 1/4"...must be the pavement. The RF now reads 28 1/4" as well, and the LF reads 28 1/2" (same as before). So judging from this, I need to go home and measure on flat pavement

So, while it does look a little better, maybe its just me getting used to it!!! Tape measures don't lie...we'll see how she sits when I get home.

One lucky thing...he still had my original front springs!! So the way I see it, if this damn thing doesn't sit down much by August or so, I can always put the original fronts back in, and the car may be just about level. And if it does sit a little higher in the back, so what?? My RS always did, and so do these new Firebirds

Comments? Opinions??