Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

No ill intent meant, just wanted to help you make an intelligent decision.
There is a lot involved and you should know all the pitfalls before you jump in.
A lot of these projects have been started and never reached completion.
So, just think long and hard before you jump in.

I wish you the best in whatever you do.

itsMikey

thanks don
i assure everyone, this will get done. Once i start, i won't stop until its done, but then again, when is it ever done?

Grey Goose

Bottom line, Don has spent the better part of the past 10-12 years researching, testing, and modifying Tuned Port Injection and various TPI engine management systems. I can say without hesitation say that I consider Don to be an expert when it comes to Tuned Port Injection. With that said, over the years he has accrued a significant amount of expense in hardware, software, tools, etc. not to mention the thousands of hours of research and testing through trial and error often without data to compare said tests to because most of what he was attempting has never been done before. Don is also semiretired and doesn’t view the engine building, TPI modification, and tuning as a job but a hobby so there is absolutely no need for him to keep up with ‘modern technology’ because he doesn’t need to.

Don is set in his ways and based on my experience does not waiver a single inch once he has committed himself to anything. So expecting him to readily embrace anything other than what he knows will work isn’t going to happen. What is plain and simple to him may not be to others and there’s the lays difference. Why at this stage in his life would Don invest in the hardware, software, and tools needed to tune and modify LSX motors especially when through his years of research and development of the TPI system he has been able to achieve comparable numbers to an LSX while remaining smog compliant.

As he was and still is a trailblazer in Tuned Port Injection we must also recognize that there is a new breed emerging that has taken it upon themselves to forge a path by way of the LSX. Neither camp has to like it but both need to respect the common goal. That goal being pushing the performance envelope of the cars we spend hours upon hours working on.

injdinjn

IMO if newer wasn't better vettes would still be inline 6s with side draft carbs.

Putting a Olds V8 in a Henry J was a lot easier than a LS in a turd gen, we only had to remove part of the firewall, not install a new dash and 10miles of wire.

Would I put a LS in my GP, in a heartbeat if if wasn't for the dash.

Pass corn and beer

itsMikey

very well said, Mike.

i agree that the new breed of TGO gear heads consist of LSX'ers. and i really dont see why everyone has such a problem with it?
and dont get me wrong, i love my TPI and it does great, i just want something newer i guess...lol

KNBlazer

it's ok though because when the Tree Huggers up in Sacramento tighten down and raise the emissions standards... it's gonna be near impossible to get the good ol' sniffer test either fixed or the good ol' fashion way praying to the gear gods to pass the test... that's when you stop by Don's and pick him up so he accompanies you to the Smog Only test station ..

JMR

i call dibs on your l98
btw check this out
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/wester...p-harness.html

JMR

before anything research, research and research.
map out things before you disconnect the first wire, it will also help to shop around for deals
and again have everything thing you need before you remove anything.

ls1tech has good info on this topic so talk to them
right now you are just mentally masturbating; so in my opinion have the parts ready then ask for help, people will see you are serious and will be more than happy to help you out. just a bit of advice..

and nothing but respect for Don he has given much value to TGO, but sometimes is better for people to struggle for growth. my dos pesos

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

I'm not going to speak for Don, but I can tell you if you had a carb, V6, or TBI engine under your hood, I wouldnt hesitate to tell you go ahead and do the swap. You're getting the engine for free, and you have friends who can help you. But since you already have the 350 TPI, the most powerful engine put into thirdgens (excluding the Turbo Buick, of course) then the swap becomes more complicated. Its my opinion, and Don's too, that thirdgens that came with TPI engines should stay that way. LSx engines came in 4th gens and C5+ Corvettes, and they belong there.

Yes its true that the LSx engine is technologically superior to the TPI in every way. "Race heads" that flow 300 CFM, have 12*, 15* or 18* valve angles, and 200 cc intake runners will of course be better. And dont forget larger valves, smaller valve stems, conical springs, and 1.7 ratio roller rocker arms. Don and I have found a niche market to specialize in. Nobody else in the country is focusing on TPI engines any more. Even once powerful TPI gurus such as TPIS, SLP, and Lingenfelter have moved on. But this site is thirdgen.org, not ls1tech.com, so we're going to concentrate on the best engine that came in thirdgens.

You have half the battle done in that you're getting the engine for free. The other half of your battle is going to be spending blood, sweat, and tears, not to mention money. Good luck, Mikey!

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

its nice to see someone on the THIRDGEN forum recognize that. im 22 yrs old and did build my car in the driveway. mainly to learn and save the extra $$ anything is possible..

my motivation isnt to stomp on the tpi guys or ford guys but to build a ride that i like and enjoy for myself. for the little work ive done with the engine i am very satisfied with the outcome.. it may be a stock ls1 but im sure its appearance catches your attention.

btw i do love the competition. i love running into the 4th gen fbodys, the vettes and cobras.

just take your time and youll be satisfied of the outcome
i completed my lsx swap two years ago. i took the time & effort and haven't struggled.

if you check out the ltx/lsx sub forums youll see all the lsx layouts out there
on top of my head

motor and tranny mounts by spohn
exhaust
fuel
wiring harness

VYZ06

hey guys i'm putting a LS9 in my C6Z06 and using the LS7 for my 89 IROC is that a sin or will the sbc gods be pleased. BTW TPITERROR is doing my swap in my driveway.

Guest

TPI...LSx.... Who really gives. What do women really like under the hood? Thats for a guy like me too know and you people to figure out on your own.

Gee ain't life swell.

godreject

iTrader: (1)

one would assume if you have a c6z06 vette and the money for an ls9 you would have the funds to have it proffesionally done, i'm just saying leave the driveway work for us poor people

VYZ06

well actually TPITERROR is a good friend of mine and were doing the work together for the experience plus why pay thousands of dollars for something we love to do our selves id rather use that money on my paint job buddy so pleas don't hate congratulate and let me worry about how i spend my money.

JulieGTA

Hey, 80's vs 90's? Who cares. Just keep your dreams alive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk3lQ...ayer_embedded#!

Grey Goose

Looking at this image from the July Super Cruise, tell me which of these 3rd gens are LSX powered… That’s right, you can’t!

My view has always been that when the hoods are close (which happens to be most of the time) you can’t tell whether it’s an LSX, L98, LB9, LB8, LG4, LQ9, LH0, LO3, or Ford 302 so why should it matter? The owner has the freedom to power his/her vehicle with whatever power plant and/or fuel delivery system they choose regardless of cost, degree of difficulty, or feasibility. It’s not about what’s keeping these cars alive, it’s about the fact that they are being kept alive by the owner for the owners no one else

morganrush1974

HEY! what about the the 3.1 that made itjust don't ask me how It just did.

Guest

I can't figure out why you guys spend sometimes all day washing your cars prior to a cruise like this, then park them in the dirt. Things that make you go hummmm?

Tricked-Out-Toy

iTrader: (1)

The haters in this thread make me laugh so hard lol Getting rid of the TPI was the second best thing I did on my car. The first being getting rid of the T5!! You will LOVE the LS1, Itll walk circles around any TPI in this thread and getting 20+mpg doing it The 98 wouldnt be my first choice but its still better than the TPI your had!

I think everyone that has said keep the TPI has either never been in a fast car or never raced someone in an LSx.... That or its just ignorance, cam only LS1's routinely putting out over 400hp. H/C 450+. They are extremely simple to work on, adjusting valves is a thing of the past. stock rocker arms that will easily take 800-1000HP. 6 bolt bottom ends!! Come on guys get your heads outa your asses lol

Guest

You are in fact igniorant aren't you. I am not taking sides, I just see you lack nowlegde of the cars on this thread. I think Alan and Vincent alone would eat you for lunch partner. And yes, while getting 20mpg.

I do not own a TPI nor do I own an LSx, but I have driven many many cars much faster than those powerplants in my lifetime. I know fast cars when I see them. L03 Vettes make me yawn.

Tricked-Out-Toy

iTrader: (1)

Lol ok bring em out My lastest LSx build is done. shake down pass off the trailer on 7lbs ran 9.8@135. Thats with STOCK as a rock 317 heads on an Iron 408 at 3620 race weight. We havent upped the boost to 18-20 lbs but on 7.5 lbs on a dyno dynamics it put down 680 hp Google tater shack performance, you should be able to see our first shack down passes in the TA. lemme know when a TPI wants to race lol Ill put $1K on it

For the street guys we just did an LS3 cammed swap into a 05 gto, also have a maggied LS6 with a baby nitrous shot making 556 in a CTS-v, a H/C 346 in a camaro making 454 etc.. etc... like I said you bring out ANY TPI and Ive got a car in my stable that will destroy it.

eagle_eyes

iTrader: (3)

Sorry if someone already answered this...i just skimmed through. on the 700r4, it will bolt up. one of the hurdles with it though is the detent cable, since LS1's don't use one with the 4L60E trans. i'm sure the mock-up would be something similar to LS1 guys putting TH350's in their cars. read up on that to see what they did with the computer and throttle body.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Yeah Dean he is talking boosted and and nitrous. Total ignorance on his part as to the conversation. If I ran a 200 shot on my car I would probably be in the deep nines.

grover85

iTrader: (1)

This thread makes me LOL.
I just sold my 406 TPI big mouth set up about three weeks ago. GOOD RIDDANCE!!!! Nothing like having no power past 4800 even with 150 shot. 5.3 Single turbo going back in. Low tens High 9's potential for cheap. I understand if you have an original car with allot of stock parts. But when your car is bastardized then who cares. Nothing like sticking your head in the sand when new technology comes down the line.

Tricked-Out-Toy

iTrader: (1)

Not true son, two of those cars are makeing 450+ and are just H/C read between the lines. theres not a single N/A TPI in the world that can run with a similiar setup LSx.... About the only place the TPI beats and LS1 is as a boat anchor....

Like I said I will put any of the LS cars in my shop up against ANY TPI. put up or shut up! Ive got $1K sitting here WAITING to be taken. oh BTW Im going to be starting on a Solid roller 500 CI tall deck LSX the first of the year Ill take 2 plugs out of it and still beat down ANY TPI lol.... you guys are fighting a loosing battle and you dont have jack to stand on! the TPI should NEVER have made its way into a car. Its better suited on a truck, I know the truth hurts but damn son you have had about 20 years to get over being butt hurt.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Well I'm gonna say this, I have beat up on a lot of LSx cars with my TPI and the LSX car wasnt stock either. But my friend you're talking about putting a full race car against a California Smog Legal Street Car. Of course not a fair race. I have no problem racing any LSX car but the race has to be fair. 400hp LSX against 400hp TPI. Who will win? Oh by the way, my TPI make hp above 6000rpms. Anyone with a LSX wanna take that challenge?

Whats funny is that all the swaps I've seen is that the A/C and smog was deleted. Remember this dont get caught without the emission equiptment. I say if you're gonna swap then swap everything. The smog dude may not be around when you need him.

injdinjn

Interesting, wonder why mine is still climbing at 6k. We must have screwed up somewhere.

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

just wondering if any one of the tpi guys do any hwy runs?
who even wants to follow c.a. emissions? is that what restricts majority of peoples performance gains?

Tricked-Out-Toy

iTrader: (1)

Lets see the graph and we will see just how much its "pulling". jsut cause the RPM's go up doesnt mean it keeps on making power...

Tricked-Out-Toy

iTrader: (1)

Swapping the ac and smogg out is jsut easier it really doesnt have a huge affect on HP.

and 400hp TPI will get DESTROYED by a 400hp LS1 ive actually got a cam only LS3 and a BABY cam only 98 LS1 in the stable if your ever out this way. ive got the PERFECT mexican mile to run on. Do some research man, the TPI and even my own personal LT1 doesnt hold a candle too the performance you get out of an LS1.

Look up the results page in the drag race section on tech and you will see, theres atleast 20 guys in the 10's-low 11's with CAM ONLY setups!! show me how many AMAZING TPI's you know of cam only, hell for that matter heads and cam that are even remotely close!

Tricked-Out-Toy

iTrader: (1)

GM has a emmisions legal LS3 that made 460 on a local dyno lol it came with a warrenty to!

Grey Goose

LOL, my bad... LH0 has now been added to the list

Pride baby, pride…

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Are you talking about a run on the 210fwy? If so then that's my speed.

No one wants too but it is what it is. I get Test Only every 2 years and I like to pay the basic fees.

Grey Goose

There is a ‘TPI’ powered 3rd gen that will be coming out of Chino soon that will without a doubt be the baddest all around street car to ever hit the local 3rd gen scene. The absolute best handling (I know because I’ve driven it), will have 400+ to the ground, and twist upwards of 8K RPM. It will destroy 1320’ change tires and destroy the 9 turns of Big Willow on the same tank of gas.

Building a car that can run fast in a straight line is ok I guess but compared to a car that can do both is freaking amazing!

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"GM has a emmisions legal LS3 that made 460 on a local dyno lol it came with a warrenty to!"

What is the price on that? By the way you have proven over and over in this thread you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to our TPI cars. We have cars making peak power at over 6000rpm. Mine is making peak power at 6500 rpm. Hard to argue with someone who does have their facts straight. Makes it pointless.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"There is a ‘TPI’ powered 3rd gen that will be coming out of Chino soon that will without a doubt be the baddest all around street car to ever hit the local 3rd gen scene. The absolute best handling (I know because I’ve driven it), will have 400+ to the ground, and twist upwards of 8K RPM. It will destroy 1320’ change tires and destroy the 9 turns of Big Willow on the same tank of gas"

Yes, that will be an amazing car. Peak power should be around 7500rpm. A little higher than the 4800rpm being quoted by any number of posters on 3rd gen who are absolutely clueless.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

They don't know that we found out what was holdindg TPI back from making power up to 4800. Now we are making power pass 6000.

Of course it will take a full TPI set up to beat a LSX. But remember these are Cali Street cars not race cars.

Grey Goose

Well a huge factor is the fact that some people are under the impression that a factory TPI unit is being referenced here. All the So Cal guys know that we are talking about highly modified TPI base manifolds that flow upwards of 300 cfm whereas again the others guys might be under the impression that factory base, runners, plenums, and throttle bodies are being used.

Z28FAST1

Don’t take it personal but did you beat bolt-on LS1's or head and cam LS1’s?

What’s your best ¼ et and trap speed?

I might have to detune my current LS1 to be at 400hp

Burnout91

That's good point that needed to be made clear; and, don't forget the HSR car that just (legitimately) passed Los Angeles smog. I don't consider it a TPI... I guess it's a bastardized L98? Certainly isn't an LSwhatever....

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"others guys might be under the impression that factory base, runners, plenums, and throttle bodies are being used."

Exactly. Most of the out of staters posting in the Southern California forum are clueless as to what is going on in the local area. You can tell by their posts.

BlackMamba

iTrader: (6)

Man I guess there is something boiling between the LSX guys and the TPI guys..
I am just wondering what are my chances of keeping up with my carb engine..
Oh well I have other plans for my car down the road

And to Mike(greygoose)
I know which one in the pic is the LSX car, very nice car it was to see in person

Valentin.
Also if u do a highway run.. I can be the camera guy lol

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

that would be perfect we can set up something up sometime.

i am very aware of that and impressed the damage he does at the track. overall im very impressed of his work and always will be.

anyone is willing to pay for any price tag on anything out there.
this hobby isnt cheap..

what if the strict emission laws never existed what would you guys be up to?

Grey Goose

In agree 100%. Once a multi piece TPI unit is replaced with a mono-block intake it in my opinion ceases to be a TPI unit. Allan's and Vince's units can be called TPI without a doubt, however your HSR, Mini Ram, and other similar systems are simply injected. Again, this is MY opinion...

So pop up a few dyno graphs and let the educational process begin.

You're right, it was a really clean car. What did you think about the other 2 LSX cars that were on the cruise?

camaromike222

Sad face, lowers head, sniff. No one loves LT1's, sniff.

BlackMamba

iTrader: (6)

Mike
I didn't went to the super cruise, not sure if u remember I had to leave cuz I had some personal business to attend to.. I only been on the san pedro cruise when we had our sc3g meeting in redondo beach

Also to Miguel
Don't take it to personal.. I am in the same position with my computer control carbuertor

Valentin

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"So pop up a few dyno graphs and let the educational process begin."

We will wait for the latest one in about 4 weeks. Maybe a little less.

Guest

You know as well as I do that from a technical standpoint that intake is not legal here. There's no carb EO for it, nor do any of them from Holley have an EGR so its a complete visual fail for anyone following the rulebook to the letter which is exactly what we have to deal with in this communist state.

ringo234

"""I know the truth hurts but damn son you have had about 20 years to get over being but"""

You must be 90 years old to be calling Allen son.

$750 L98

Sent you a PM Mikey. The only complicated part of the swap is the wiring. I did all that myself, I even have the STOCK 3rd gen fuel gauge working with the STOCK untouched 4th gen fuel tank/pump assembly.

I loved my TPI but at the time, the block was done and the trans died, why replace the TPI/700r4 when I could go LS/4L60E right?

Look forward to spinning the stock size street tires to 85mph+ if you cam it lol