Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Just got back from Adams. I ran in only one session, 7:40 to 8:40 and there were hardly any cars there. School apparently started this week so that kept all the kiddies at home.
On my first lap I broke the transmission mount, literally on the very first lap. I caught up to this GTI and was rough on a shift and *bang* broke it. The whole time I was on his ***
I decided to keep running and just not shift at all or make abrupt throttle movements so I wouldn't slam the tranny into the trans tunnel. Next run I got moved up behind a ford probe. Caught him too.
Last run I was the first guy out for my group and was killin' it. I had to hang on for dear life though I was losing time due to the trans issue.
They let us run some extra laps and I managed to catch up to an SN95 mustang that was the last in my group out there.
When I grabbed the timesheet I was in shock. On my last run I ran a 47.7 and a bunch of 48 second laps.
There were only 9 cars there but one of which was a pretty built miata on r compound tires and his fastest time was a 47.76 or 78 (hard to read) So it's possible i had the fastest time of the session.

I'm super stoked.

As a side note, the brake proportioning valve mod helped tremendously. I did however learn that my drums have almost no stopping power. With the prop valve cranked all the way down to max rear bias I still cannot lock up the rear brakes. I might try and put in some S10 wheel cylinders (bigger pistons) if they will fit and if I feel up to it.
The other thing is that the open rear is killing me. I'm going to lower the car and lower the rear roll center and hopefully gain some traction back there in addition to giving the front tires a break.

So all in all, I had a great set of runs and the car has impressed me tremendously now that I have decent tires and some stopping power.

Hope to see you guys out there next time.

camaromike222

What kind of mod did you do to the prop valve?

Guest

Lap times vary with the track layouts being different.

The times realy need to be compared on a "same day" bassis because the track workers lay out the tire barriers in different positions and widths- I know for me in a 6 foot plus wide vehicle it makes a major difference how much I have to brake and slw down to wiggle through them or not I see some video's of cars going right through them at a good clip and others having to almost stop. They also leave out sections of track like the front chicane whcih is esimated to be about 2-3 second drop in lap times.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Layout was the same as the last time you guys went. The only thing that could vary is the tire placement on the back straight (that is if they don't mark it) it did however seem the same as when I went last time.

in any event I think the black rr miata is a good metric for me. I am happy with that. None of the other cars there broke into the 40s
There was another thirdgen there having a hard time runnin 56 but he wasn't on the forum

Hopefully next time some of the forum guys will show up and we can compare times under the same conditions

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Anyway you cut it you did good. Congratulations. Get those brakes and trans mount fixed and see what it will do.

Guest

Don't get me wrong, sounds like you are running very respectful times. You had put up the question about a track record for4 a third gen so I was commenting on that. You and Jery really need to run the same time to compare.
The time I ran the track weas different from the last time the group went so you can not compare times from those last two events since the track wwas two diifferent layouts

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Yeah we do need to be out there the same night. The track was the same layout as when jerry ran his 47. The start finish was a straight away instead of the small off shoot turn section.

Really the biggest help was the tires, going from dry rotted all seasons to autox tires made all the difference in the world esp with the rear brakes working now

I did a few other minor tweaks aswell

CamaroZzz

i cant wait to take mine out on a track day i hope i get my shutting off issue fixed.. hate when it randomly turns off..

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

did you check your steering column for the randomly shutting off my old 87 t-top car did that and it was just the column was so sloppy it was pulling one of the connectors loose and loosing all the power and shutting off. might not be your problem but hope it helps.

Grey Goose

Wow I go out of town for a couple of days and we’ve got people sneaking out to the track and shaving 8 seconds of their time!? Nicely done Pablo! So you went from the stock wheel and tire set up to the 17x9.5 ZR1 wheels and R compounds. Was that the only change?

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Thanks goose,
The tires were the major change but I also added the prop valve which helped braking dramatically. I also cut another 1/4 coil off the rear springs and set the shock rebound to full stiff. In addition to that, I shaved probably close to 50 lbs off the car with the removal of the rear seat and belts. That's all I can think of. I can't say enough about how much of a difference tires make. With your mods and r comps I can almost guarantee you'd run 47s or better with your car.
Next I will be lowering the rear roll center and chopping more off the rear springs to compensate plus lower the rear of the car. I think the rear geometry is throwing me off more than anything. I feel the car throwing way too much weight onto the outside front wheel and picking up the inside rear. Just shifting the weight in that kink along the semi straight was causing me to spin the inside rear bad. Doesn't help that I have an open rear but I think a posi would actually make the car too loose on throttle given the inclined roll axis.
The other prob is the jacking effect from the phb which I also swear I can feel
Ill work on fixing it this weekend. If I get it done ill be at adams next tues to test things. You should bring the grey goose out.

Grey Goose

Even with the r compounds I’m surprised to hear that you were running the rear shocks full up. What size sway bar and springs are you running on the rear?

I used to run my 86 on Hoosier R6’s out at Willow Springs and the difference was ridiculous! So I agree that I’d pick up a few seconds with a stickier compound.

I’ve been told by two professional drivers and have experienced firsthand that the rear geometry on these cars is crucial. You’re absolutely correct in regards to a posi unit enhancing the rear end stepping out because it happens to me. I need more spring, less bar, and more adjustability in a rear shock which will allow me to control the rebound.

Let me know if you’re going to be out there next week and I’ll come out and watch. I probably won’t run the car until I get the afore mentioned issues sorted out but would love to come and watch a 3rd gen beat up on the imports

CamaroZzz

nahh my steering column is kinda lose, but its not messing with any electrical wires.. to the ignition.. its my ac compressor its like messed up. and when it over heats it basically shuts off, then my car starts to bog. then it shuts off, normally id pop the car in Neutral, GIVE IT A NICE REV!!!, then back to drive that helps for a while, but i bought a fresh new ac system so that should solve the problem if its not that then it can be the column, but the column as been like that for years.. i think the bearing is just worn out.

BretD 88GTA

If you want to adjust the rear roll center, have you thought about this from Jason over at Unbalanced Engineering:
http://www.unbalancedengineering.com/Camaro/

Panhard Rod Relocation Brackets
Laser cut steel brackets that relocate the panhard rod to lower the rear roll center 4 inches and also level it for lowered cars. These brackets result in additional rear grip in all phases of cornering. They require a panhard rod that mounts via 1/2" bolts and and require a competant welder for installation. Cost $165

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I cranked up the rebound. My rationale was that would essentially add weight in a dynamic sense to the inside rear of the car so I wouldn't be throwing so much weight over the outside front tire. It also just plain felt too jiggly back there especially on those quick transitions after the banked turn. It was feeling like the body roll was almost in a resonance frequency which was throwing the car around like a pendulum.
I'm guessing this didn't help with my traction issues but I think it was a good tradeoff. This are just my theories on what is going on btw so anyones input is appreciated.

Rear springs are moog 5665s which I'm roughly guessing are around 175 lbs/inch now since I've cut 1.5 coils off. To get that 4:1 ratio everyone quotes I need to chop em down more which is ok because they still have the rear end jacked up too high.

I'm also running the small z28 bar which iirc is 21 mm. So as you can imagine the car refuses to step out on me.
Ill definitely let you know if I go.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

I've seen that. I ended up buying the single bracket from jegs. Its sitting at home waiting for the install.
Getting both ends is the way to go to really lower the thing but I was impatient and wnted it right away. With just one end I'm stuck just leveling the bar really so as to not induce the phb jacking effect. Plus no picts on the U.E. site was a drag.

Bret you should come out to one of the sessions. We need the corner carving guys out there to show these imports a thing or two.

89 TA

Cool! So now we got 2 miata spanking 3rd gens. sweet! Mickie we gonna have to go out and get some stickier tires.

JERRYWHO

Pablo, sounds like you had fun, are you going to make it on the 7th.

Jerry

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

I'm supposed to be traveling for work next month for the whole month up to El Mirage so it's not looking good. Can you come out sooner?

injdinjn

El Mirage in september

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Yeah. Should be comfy weather

Tpx

Any of you planning on taking your cars to willow springs international raceway around december-january? Not trying to hijack your thread, just a hot thread and wanted to have a chance to run with fast thirgens!

Grey Goose

Interesting take…

Tell me about it! Let’s look for an up and coming tire company what wants to do some grass roots promoting

I used to run my 86 Z28 & C4S on the streets and big willow almost every weekend a few years ago. The experience is indescribable! It’s an extremely expensive habit to have one which I would love to have again one day

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Id love to do willow springs but I'm concerned about my lack of safety equipment and heat management (brakes and cooling system)

My radiator and brakes are barely adequate for the adams sessions. everything gets pretty hot. Id definitely run into brake fade, the cooling sys. might be ok for December/January.

What kind of speeds and time on the track do you see at streets and the big track?

injdinjn

I'm on this guys mailing list

http://www.opentrackracing.com/

Haven't been yet. On most cars all you need is a helmet. On verts need a roll bar 4 pt is sufficient.

Cost adds up. I was planning on going up the night before and spend the night rather than try and drive up there early and already be tired of driving when I arrive at the track. Easy $300 plus tires.
And there is passing, so some idiot, like in the attached video link from motorgen, could take you out.
http://www.motorgen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19642

89 TA

When are you going? I might just have to join you.

injdinjn

Don't hold your breath. I have decided against taking the GP so I can't run there till I get a roll bar for the vert.

Guest

Buy some ABS plastic and we'll fake it....