Originally Posted by james_85Z28

I think what was best about my 1985 Z28 running in the 12's was that it was done with all bolt on parts that were easily accessible to everyone with a Summit catalog. Nothing was custom made or a one-off. The only modified part was that I port matched and cleaned up the Accel Superam using a dremel tool. Today I would have had it extrude honed. I believe Mike and I were the first ones to run 12's at Fontana and it took years (3-4) for the rest of the gang to catch up and only after multiple heads/cam/shortblock changes and the corresponding influx of cash, capitol, time, and effort to just reach were we were years earlier.

Today, most of the fastest TPI cars have one-off intakes, one-off intake manifolds, custom ground cams with secret timing events, custom professionally ported heads, purpose built shortblocks, custom one-off complete 3.5" to 4.0" exhaust form the heads to the tailpipes, custom track-only tunes with VE and timing tables for high-octane (non-pump) gas, and are tuned using the latest real time tools that were available to me back then. Such is progress. Except for Vincent, I don't know that any of the fast "TPI-based" even leave OC and when they do it is to a racetrack usually with a support truck in the convoy.

It is possible with the right driving to get a TPI into the 12's. Below is the route I took:

LO3 shortblock - stock, from a GM crate engine
AFR 195 heads - box-stock
Accell Superram intake - port-matched w/ casting roughness removed from ports
Lingenfelter 219 cam (stock)
Roller tip rockers (not full roller!)
1 5/8 SLP headers (stock)
Flowmaster 3" exhaust (stock)
T-56 6-speed
3.42 gears 10-bolt rear end
M/T ET street radials
91 octane pump gas
K&N air filters
everyday tune (not a track-specific tune)

I believe Vincent and I were the only ones who really did just show up and change our tires and run what we had the other 6 days of the week. Jerry was always experimenting and had something new to test. Don and Kevin would get to the track low on gas and put a special mix of high octane gas to use with their track-only tuned PROMs, let alone the custom one-off intake manifold or exhaust.

Of all the cars nowadays I think if you want to look and a car and try to replicate it with parts that are available to everybody and expect to get similar results it would have to be Vincents. Aside from the head porting job and custom ground cam (almost catalog-spec) most of what he has is bolt-on what is available to everybody for being such a fast car.

Originally Posted by 1989GTATransAm

Edit: I did some research and I see that TPI TERR has a nitrous setup. Not sure what else.

Originally Posted by Kevin91Z

Thank you for belittling our accomplishments. You must be very proud of yourself.

Originally Posted by 1989GTATransAm

Sounds like it will be a lot of fun at the Invasion and I'm looking forward to meeting you guys. I'm also fully prepared to have my head handed to me. You are right in that technology moves on. Hopefully our TPI cars are not to far behind. On the whole I think we will give the 4th gen cars a hard time. On the LS1 forum they are talking about bringing enough "bottles".

Edit: I did some research and I see that TPI TERR has a nitrous setup. Not sure what else.

Originally Posted by 1989GTATransAm

I agree with Don. You guys did good. Time does move on and we are going faster every year.

Originally Posted by Grey Goose

Pablo, that’s nothing… my goal for that show was 50 cars. After reviewing the images that were taken throughout the day there were 47 different third gens that came to the meet over the course of the 4 hours we were there. My goal for our next meet is 100+ and should everything work out with the venue I don’t think it’s going to be a problem.

Originally Posted by james_85Z28

I fully agree. There are numbers (HP, timeslip) that are basically derived from pure bolt-ons and other people can expect similar results (with similar driving) and then there are numbers when you take what is available and tweak them to get even better numbers.

Originally Posted by Kevin91Z

James, why dont you just come out and say what you're trying to say instead of beating around the bush with innuendos? From what I'm reading, it sounds like you're either calling our results a bunch of lies, or you're saying your accomplishments are better than ours because we have to use "specialized one-off parts" and you threw a combination together in your garage and got lucky. By the way, where is the mythical low 12 second car now? The SC3G.org timeslip page says it was in the mid 12's. I heard rumors from the super-secret test sessions in the middle of the night by yourselves that the car once went 12.39 after you stripped the interior and a lot of other weight.

Originally Posted by james_85Z28

I fully agree. There are numbers (HP, timeslip) that are basically derived from pure bolt-ons and other people can expect similar results (with similar driving) and then there are numbers when you take what is available and tweak them to get even better numbers.

Originally Posted by bungo78

I didn't get that impression reading the previous posts.

He was describing how "anyone" could get a lot of power out of there cars if you follow a preticular blueprint. He uses Vincent as his example due to the fact he has the least amount of customization. Which would be easier for say myself if I wanted to built an engine up, without the extra money & time needed in the "extra" work extended.

James also points out that "one-off's" are fine as well. That if you desire this road your now looking into a deeply invested customized job.

I believe he may have given this information to be helpful to those who may want "similar" numbers, or close to them without having to put the same time or money to invest. Yet having the opportunity to do so, and enjoy their "cars".

Again all of the TPI information on this board is very valuable. For some it may be overload. His example is more of a no-frills version of a "How-to".

Adrian

Originally Posted by Dyno Don

Hey...

Don't forget I used bolt on out of the box parts to go 12.80 @ 107.65 granny shifting back in those days. (Edelcrock parts at that)

So, like it has been said.....what's your point?

Originally Posted by ZexGX

It will be lots of fun for sure. I'm thinking anywhere from 12.7 to 13.2 with my car but most of the cam/intake/exhaust guys will be mid to low 12s or faster w/o nitrous (which usually requires a fire suit & other safety equipment, right?). I'm not expecting to go too fast since the motor and trans in my car is bone stock (without any power adders), and we'll be running at Fontana in the heat.

Originally Posted by 1989GTATransAm

I would expect the head, cam, exhaust LSx cars to be in the mid to upper 11's. It appears a lot of the 4th gen guys run nitrous from what I'm reading on the LSx Tech board.

Anyways I think we all are going to have a good time and I'm looking forward to it.

Originally Posted by Z28FAST1

High 12's seem about right, you running on street tires? T56 or auto? I have a friendly grudge against my buddy's 1998 auto SS w/ full bolts-ons, stall, and gears. He's running consistent 7.7's. I'm hoping i can pull off a decent 60 ft. and reel him in before the 1/8th mile mark.

Originally Posted by Pablo

Too bad I was out of town for this. That's the most thirdgens I've ever seen in pictures in one spot aside from the nationals several years ago. There are some very nice cars out there. I am blown away by the paint on some of these rides.

I have the Z28 running about as good as a stock LB9 with a 2-ish inch exhaust can.

Would anyone be up for some driving in the future? By driving I mean hitting up the twisties @ 8/10ths or so. I'll have my suspension ready as soon as my konis get here (on back order ) in a few weeks.

Hey TT84Z5SPD,
Since you seem like you are game, we oughta line em up one of these days. My little v6 powered G body against your ride. Your car sounds pretty healthy . I'm up the 15 in Murrieta.

Originally Posted by james_85Z28

I think what was best about my 1985 Z28 running in the 12's was that it was done with all bolt on parts that were easily accessible to everyone with a Summit catalog. Nothing was custom made or a one-off. The only modified part was that I port matched and cleaned up the Accel Superam using a dremel tool. Today I would have had it extrude honed. I believe Mike and I were the first ones to run 12's at Fontana and it took years (3-4) for the rest of the gang to catch up and only after multiple heads/cam/shortblock changes and the corresponding influx of cash, capitol, time, and effort to just reach were we were years earlier.

Today, most of the fastest TPI cars have one-off intakes, one-off intake manifolds, custom ground cams with secret timing events, custom professionally ported heads, purpose built shortblocks, custom one-off complete 3.5" to 4.0" exhaust form the heads to the tailpipes, custom track-only tunes with VE and timing tables for high-octane (non-pump) gas, and are tuned using the latest real time tools that were available to me back then. Such is progress. Except for Vincent, I don't know that any of the fast "TPI-based" even leave OC and when they do it is to a racetrack usually with a support truck in the convoy.

It is possible with the right driving to get a TPI into the 12's. Below is the route I took:

LO3 shortblock - stock, from a GM crate engine
AFR 195 heads - box-stock
Accell Superram intake - port-matched w/ casting roughness removed from ports
Lingenfelter 219 cam (stock)
Roller tip rockers (not full roller!)
1 5/8 SLP headers (stock)
Flowmaster 3" exhaust (stock)
T-56 6-speed
3.42 gears 10-bolt rear end
M/T ET street radials
91 octane pump gas
K&N air filters
everyday tune (not a track-specific tune)

I believe Vincent and I were the only ones who really did just show up and change our tires and run what we had the other 6 days of the week. Jerry was always experimenting and had something new to test. Don and Kevin would get to the track low on gas and put a special mix of high octane gas to use with their track-only tuned PROMs, let alone the custom one-off intake manifold or exhaust.

Of all the cars nowadays I think if you want to look and a car and try to replicate it with parts that are available to everybody and expect to get similar results it would have to be Vincents. Aside from the head porting job and custom ground cam (almost catalog-spec) most of what he has is bolt-on what is available to everybody for being such a fast car.

Originally Posted by Pablo

Hmm that starts right up the street from me. I'll probably check that out.

Originally Posted by injdinjn

Gonna make it to this?

Originally Posted by injdinjn

Too late, I would have had to leave by 4 30 and didnt really feel like driving that far today.