Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
#101
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
Yes, his intake is extrude honed and he has a few little things but he does not have a ton of critical one-off parts. There is nothing wrong with one-off if your goal requires it. Once you start going down that street it quickly becomes a purpose-built vehicle and can't be easily duplicated or used as a blueprint for those that wish to achieve the same results (HP or timeslip). I don't think you would be able to replicate your exhaust system without a neutral shop charging a couple grand. I doubt most could afford the cost that another shop would charge to modify the aftermarket TPI (on top of the cost of the intake) intakes into what some members are running around with. No doubt it could be done but those two mods (intake and exhaust) done by an independent shop would easily cost the value of most of our thirdgens.
#102
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
I think what was best about my 1985 Z28 running in the 12's was that it was done with all bolt on parts that were easily accessible to everyone with a Summit catalog. Nothing was custom made or a one-off. The only modified part was that I port matched and cleaned up the Accel Superam using a dremel tool. Today I would have had it extrude honed. I believe Mike and I were the first ones to run 12's at Fontana and it took years (3-4) for the rest of the gang to catch up and only after multiple heads/cam/shortblock changes and the corresponding influx of cash, capitol, time, and effort to just reach were we were years earlier.
Today, most of the fastest TPI cars have one-off intakes, one-off intake manifolds, custom ground cams with secret timing events, custom professionally ported heads, purpose built shortblocks, custom one-off complete 3.5" to 4.0" exhaust form the heads to the tailpipes, custom track-only tunes with VE and timing tables for high-octane (non-pump) gas, and are tuned using the latest real time tools that were available to me back then. Such is progress. Except for Vincent, I don't know that any of the fast "TPI-based" even leave OC and when they do it is to a racetrack usually with a support truck in the convoy.
It is possible with the right driving to get a TPI into the 12's. Below is the route I took:
LO3 shortblock - stock, from a GM crate engine
AFR 195 heads - box-stock
Accell Superram intake - port-matched w/ casting roughness removed from ports
Lingenfelter 219 cam (stock)
Roller tip rockers (not full roller!)
1 5/8 SLP headers (stock)
Flowmaster 3" exhaust (stock)
T-56 6-speed
3.42 gears 10-bolt rear end
M/T ET street radials
91 octane pump gas
K&N air filters
everyday tune (not a track-specific tune)
I believe Vincent and I were the only ones who really did just show up and change our tires and run what we had the other 6 days of the week. Jerry was always experimenting and had something new to test. Don and Kevin would get to the track low on gas and put a special mix of high octane gas to use with their track-only tuned PROMs, let alone the custom one-off intake manifold or exhaust.
Of all the cars nowadays I think if you want to look and a car and try to replicate it with parts that are available to everybody and expect to get similar results it would have to be Vincents. Aside from the head porting job and custom ground cam (almost catalog-spec) most of what he has is bolt-on what is available to everybody for being such a fast car.
Today, most of the fastest TPI cars have one-off intakes, one-off intake manifolds, custom ground cams with secret timing events, custom professionally ported heads, purpose built shortblocks, custom one-off complete 3.5" to 4.0" exhaust form the heads to the tailpipes, custom track-only tunes with VE and timing tables for high-octane (non-pump) gas, and are tuned using the latest real time tools that were available to me back then. Such is progress. Except for Vincent, I don't know that any of the fast "TPI-based" even leave OC and when they do it is to a racetrack usually with a support truck in the convoy.
It is possible with the right driving to get a TPI into the 12's. Below is the route I took:
LO3 shortblock - stock, from a GM crate engine
AFR 195 heads - box-stock
Accell Superram intake - port-matched w/ casting roughness removed from ports
Lingenfelter 219 cam (stock)
Roller tip rockers (not full roller!)
1 5/8 SLP headers (stock)
Flowmaster 3" exhaust (stock)
T-56 6-speed
3.42 gears 10-bolt rear end
M/T ET street radials
91 octane pump gas
K&N air filters
everyday tune (not a track-specific tune)
I believe Vincent and I were the only ones who really did just show up and change our tires and run what we had the other 6 days of the week. Jerry was always experimenting and had something new to test. Don and Kevin would get to the track low on gas and put a special mix of high octane gas to use with their track-only tuned PROMs, let alone the custom one-off intake manifold or exhaust.
Of all the cars nowadays I think if you want to look and a car and try to replicate it with parts that are available to everybody and expect to get similar results it would have to be Vincents. Aside from the head porting job and custom ground cam (almost catalog-spec) most of what he has is bolt-on what is available to everybody for being such a fast car.
#104
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
History is a myth that men agree to believe.
Napoleon
Napoleon
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
James,
you guys did great and so have the rest of us, lets just leave it at that.
you guys did great and so have the rest of us, lets just leave it at that.
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
Sounds like it will be a lot of fun at the Invasion and I'm looking forward to meeting you guys. I'm also fully prepared to have my head handed to me. You are right in that technology moves on. Hopefully our TPI cars are not to far behind. On the whole I think we will give the 4th gen cars a hard time. On the LS1 forum they are talking about bringing enough "bottles".
Edit: I did some research and I see that TPI TERR has a nitrous setup. Not sure what else.
Edit: I did some research and I see that TPI TERR has a nitrous setup. Not sure what else.
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
I fully agree. There are numbers (HP, timeslip) that are basically derived from pure bolt-ons and other people can expect similar results (with similar driving) and then there are numbers when you take what is available and tweak them to get even better numbers.
#110
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
Pablo, that’s nothing… my goal for that show was 50 cars. After reviewing the images that were taken throughout the day there were 47 different third gens that came to the meet over the course of the 4 hours we were there. My goal for our next meet is 100+ and should everything work out with the venue I don’t think it’s going to be a problem.
Originally Posted by james_85Z28
I fully agree. There are numbers (HP, timeslip) that are basically derived from pure bolt-ons and other people can expect similar results (with similar driving) and then there are numbers when you take what is available and tweak them to get even better numbers.
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
I have a 13.6 time slip with the GP from Carlsbad long before it closed. And everyone knows how well it hooks.
IIRC that was before the AFRs
IIRC that was before the AFRs
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
Don't quote me, but don't they limit the racing to 200 cars.
Be kind of hard to interest 100 cars to come if only a few of them could race.
The cruise is a different story.
Be kind of hard to interest 100 cars to come if only a few of them could race.
The cruise is a different story.
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
James, why dont you just come out and say what you're trying to say instead of beating around the bush with innuendos? From what I'm reading, it sounds like you're either calling our results a bunch of lies, or you're saying your accomplishments are better than ours because we have to use "specialized one-off parts" and you threw a combination together in your garage and got lucky. By the way, where is the mythical low 12 second car now? The SC3G.org timeslip page says it was in the mid 12's. I heard rumors from the super-secret test sessions in the middle of the night by yourselves that the car once went 12.39 after you stripped the interior and a lot of other weight.
He was describing how "anyone" could get a lot of power out of there cars if you follow a preticular blueprint. He uses Vincent as his example due to the fact he has the least amount of customization. Which would be easier for say myself if I wanted to built an engine up, without the extra money & time needed in the "extra" work extended.
James also points out that "one-off's" are fine as well. That if you desire this road your now looking into a deeply invested customized job.
I believe he may have given this information to be helpful to those who may want "similar" numbers, or close to them without having to put the same time or money to invest. Yet having the opportunity to do so, and enjoy their "cars".
Again all of the TPI information on this board is very valuable. For some it may be overload. His example is more of a no-frills version of a "How-to".
Adrian
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
Don't forget I used bolt on out of the box parts to go 12.80 @ 107.65 granny shifting back in those days. (Edelcrock parts at that)
So, like it has been said.....what's your point?
#116
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
"He uses Vincent as his example due to the fact he has the least amount of customization."
Yep, you have to hand it to Vincent. It is amazing how quick his car is with virtually all bolt on parts. He might very well have the fastest 355 TPI Third Gen right now with his latest build.
I think our TPI cars will be from the low 13's down to maybe the lower 12's depending on the weather conditions. I would expect the head, cam, exhaust LSx cars to be in the mid to upper 11's. It appears a lot of the 4th gen guys run nitrous from what I'm reading on the LSx Tech board.
Anyways I think we all are going to have a good time and I'm looking forward to it.
Yep, you have to hand it to Vincent. It is amazing how quick his car is with virtually all bolt on parts. He might very well have the fastest 355 TPI Third Gen right now with his latest build.
I think our TPI cars will be from the low 13's down to maybe the lower 12's depending on the weather conditions. I would expect the head, cam, exhaust LSx cars to be in the mid to upper 11's. It appears a lot of the 4th gen guys run nitrous from what I'm reading on the LSx Tech board.
Anyways I think we all are going to have a good time and I'm looking forward to it.
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
I didn't get that impression reading the previous posts.
He was describing how "anyone" could get a lot of power out of there cars if you follow a preticular blueprint. He uses Vincent as his example due to the fact he has the least amount of customization. Which would be easier for say myself if I wanted to built an engine up, without the extra money & time needed in the "extra" work extended.
James also points out that "one-off's" are fine as well. That if you desire this road your now looking into a deeply invested customized job.
I believe he may have given this information to be helpful to those who may want "similar" numbers, or close to them without having to put the same time or money to invest. Yet having the opportunity to do so, and enjoy their "cars".
Again all of the TPI information on this board is very valuable. For some it may be overload. His example is more of a no-frills version of a "How-to".
Adrian
He was describing how "anyone" could get a lot of power out of there cars if you follow a preticular blueprint. He uses Vincent as his example due to the fact he has the least amount of customization. Which would be easier for say myself if I wanted to built an engine up, without the extra money & time needed in the "extra" work extended.
James also points out that "one-off's" are fine as well. That if you desire this road your now looking into a deeply invested customized job.
I believe he may have given this information to be helpful to those who may want "similar" numbers, or close to them without having to put the same time or money to invest. Yet having the opportunity to do so, and enjoy their "cars".
Again all of the TPI information on this board is very valuable. For some it may be overload. His example is more of a no-frills version of a "How-to".
Adrian
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
Isn't THIS ^ thread about some meet that happened a week ago?
Didn't the local 3rd Gen owners have their flame war/peepee contest two months ago?
If you want to revive dead dogs, maybe it should be taken to some other site.
Didn't the local 3rd Gen owners have their flame war/peepee contest two months ago?
If you want to revive dead dogs, maybe it should be taken to some other site.
#120
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
It will be lots of fun for sure. I'm thinking anywhere from 12.7 to 13.2 with my car but most of the cam/intake/exhaust guys will be mid to low 12s or faster w/o nitrous (which usually requires a fire suit & other safety equipment, right?). I'm not expecting to go too fast since the motor and trans in my car is bone stock (without any power adders), and we'll be running at Fontana in the heat.
Where is the popcorn smiley for this thread??
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
High 12's seem about right, you running on street tires? T56 or auto? I have a friendly grudge against my buddy's 1998 auto SS w/ full bolts-ons, stall, and gears. He's running consistent 7.7's. I'm hoping i can pull off a decent 60 ft. and reel him in before the 1/8th mile mark.
Last edited by ZexGX; 05-03-2010 at 11:46 PM.
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
double post
Last edited by ZexGX; 05-03-2010 at 11:41 PM.
#123
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
Too bad I was out of town for this. That's the most thirdgens I've ever seen in pictures in one spot aside from the nationals several years ago. There are some very nice cars out there. I am blown away by the paint on some of these rides.
I have the Z28 running about as good as a stock LB9 with a 2-ish inch exhaust can.
Would anyone be up for some driving in the future? By driving I mean hitting up the twisties @ 8/10ths or so. I'll have my suspension ready as soon as my konis get here (on back order ) in a few weeks.
Hey TT84Z5SPD,
Since you seem like you are game, we oughta line em up one of these days. My little v6 powered G body against your ride. Your car sounds pretty healthy . I'm up the 15 in Murrieta.
I have the Z28 running about as good as a stock LB9 with a 2-ish inch exhaust can.
Would anyone be up for some driving in the future? By driving I mean hitting up the twisties @ 8/10ths or so. I'll have my suspension ready as soon as my konis get here (on back order ) in a few weeks.
Hey TT84Z5SPD,
Since you seem like you are game, we oughta line em up one of these days. My little v6 powered G body against your ride. Your car sounds pretty healthy . I'm up the 15 in Murrieta.
I think what was best about my 1985 Z28 running in the 12's was that it was done with all bolt on parts that were easily accessible to everyone with a Summit catalog. Nothing was custom made or a one-off. The only modified part was that I port matched and cleaned up the Accel Superam using a dremel tool. Today I would have had it extrude honed. I believe Mike and I were the first ones to run 12's at Fontana and it took years (3-4) for the rest of the gang to catch up and only after multiple heads/cam/shortblock changes and the corresponding influx of cash, capitol, time, and effort to just reach were we were years earlier.
Today, most of the fastest TPI cars have one-off intakes, one-off intake manifolds, custom ground cams with secret timing events, custom professionally ported heads, purpose built shortblocks, custom one-off complete 3.5" to 4.0" exhaust form the heads to the tailpipes, custom track-only tunes with VE and timing tables for high-octane (non-pump) gas, and are tuned using the latest real time tools that were available to me back then. Such is progress. Except for Vincent, I don't know that any of the fast "TPI-based" even leave OC and when they do it is to a racetrack usually with a support truck in the convoy.
It is possible with the right driving to get a TPI into the 12's. Below is the route I took:
LO3 shortblock - stock, from a GM crate engine
AFR 195 heads - box-stock
Accell Superram intake - port-matched w/ casting roughness removed from ports
Lingenfelter 219 cam (stock)
Roller tip rockers (not full roller!)
1 5/8 SLP headers (stock)
Flowmaster 3" exhaust (stock)
T-56 6-speed
3.42 gears 10-bolt rear end
M/T ET street radials
91 octane pump gas
K&N air filters
everyday tune (not a track-specific tune)
I believe Vincent and I were the only ones who really did just show up and change our tires and run what we had the other 6 days of the week. Jerry was always experimenting and had something new to test. Don and Kevin would get to the track low on gas and put a special mix of high octane gas to use with their track-only tuned PROMs, let alone the custom one-off intake manifold or exhaust.
Of all the cars nowadays I think if you want to look and a car and try to replicate it with parts that are available to everybody and expect to get similar results it would have to be Vincents. Aside from the head porting job and custom ground cam (almost catalog-spec) most of what he has is bolt-on what is available to everybody for being such a fast car.
Today, most of the fastest TPI cars have one-off intakes, one-off intake manifolds, custom ground cams with secret timing events, custom professionally ported heads, purpose built shortblocks, custom one-off complete 3.5" to 4.0" exhaust form the heads to the tailpipes, custom track-only tunes with VE and timing tables for high-octane (non-pump) gas, and are tuned using the latest real time tools that were available to me back then. Such is progress. Except for Vincent, I don't know that any of the fast "TPI-based" even leave OC and when they do it is to a racetrack usually with a support truck in the convoy.
It is possible with the right driving to get a TPI into the 12's. Below is the route I took:
LO3 shortblock - stock, from a GM crate engine
AFR 195 heads - box-stock
Accell Superram intake - port-matched w/ casting roughness removed from ports
Lingenfelter 219 cam (stock)
Roller tip rockers (not full roller!)
1 5/8 SLP headers (stock)
Flowmaster 3" exhaust (stock)
T-56 6-speed
3.42 gears 10-bolt rear end
M/T ET street radials
91 octane pump gas
K&N air filters
everyday tune (not a track-specific tune)
I believe Vincent and I were the only ones who really did just show up and change our tires and run what we had the other 6 days of the week. Jerry was always experimenting and had something new to test. Don and Kevin would get to the track low on gas and put a special mix of high octane gas to use with their track-only tuned PROMs, let alone the custom one-off intake manifold or exhaust.
Of all the cars nowadays I think if you want to look and a car and try to replicate it with parts that are available to everybody and expect to get similar results it would have to be Vincents. Aside from the head porting job and custom ground cam (almost catalog-spec) most of what he has is bolt-on what is available to everybody for being such a fast car.
#124
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
The blue 85 is the vehicle James85Z28 is referring to…
I purchased his 85 less the engine and transmission and combined it with what I had left of my 86 to build my current car...
89 RS
I purchased his 85 less the engine and transmission and combined it with what I had left of my 86 to build my current car...
89 RS
Last edited by Grey Goose; 05-07-2010 at 06:35 PM.
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
Yes you should come out. Any other thirdgens should make it out too. I'll be driving the Camaro. The Buick is still down with a broken fwd drum.
btw here is the pic of the Buick as requested
btw here is the pic of the Buick as requested
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
Too late, I would have had to leave by 4 30 and didnt really feel like driving that far today.
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
The meet and cruise ended up being alright, you didn't miss much. There were a couple of cars capable of some serious lateral Gs. There was a fox body rolling on hoosier r compound rr tires.
I saw some guys in Neons do some REALLY stupid stuff on ortega that concerned me. But all in all it was alright.
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Re: Los Angeles 3rd Gen F Body Meet Sunday April 25th, 2010 @ 2PM
Yea, there are a couple of those guys that are serious about their canyon carving. There is a white vette that I hear runs on rails.
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