BretD 88GTA

This is a little long, but some of you may find it interesting.

Okay, last weekend I got a notice in the mail from the dealership where I bought my truck. It seems the DMV has no record of a smog check for it and to complete the registration, a smog check needs to be done. The sales manager asked me to call him to make arrangements.

So, I make the call. He tells me that they will take care of it at my convenience. I tell him I can bring it on Saturday morning. "No problem, I'll transfer you to the service dept. so you can let them know you're coming in."

Well, the service guy says they don't do smog checks at the dealership and that Saturday would be bad. Bring it in during the week so they can take it to the local service station. I tell him the the sales manager said Saturday was no problem. The service guy then says, "The sales guys don't know what they're talking about. Call back and let the sales manager know Saturday is bad." The dude doesn't even offer to transfer me.

All right, I call the sales manager back and tell him the scoop. He replies that the service guy doesn't know what he's doing and he assures me that Saturday is good.

Now, that brings us to today. I drive in 8:30am. The service guy gives me the same story and that I need to talk to sales. I talk to sales and they say they'll get it done.

Here's where it gets good. They page a service runner to have him take the truck over for smog. He walks out to my truck, turns around and walks back in. "That's the hybrid truck. It can't be smogged. I tried when it originally came in and the station can't do it."

You gotta love it. No one ever bothered to explore it any further before they sold it.

Next, the sales people call the manager and give him the details. He replies to take it to another station and it will get done. I'm told to come back in an hour.

After killing an hour at the mall, I go back to get my truck. The receptionist gives me my keys and says the truck is parked in the service area. NO ONE gives any other info.

This is getting silly at this point. I decided to hang out for miunte since I was also trying to see about getting the speedometer recalibrated for the new wheels and tires I just put on. Once again, the service dept. isn't much help and tells me to talk to sales again since they're handling everything for my truck today.

Here's comes the icing on the cake. I go back inside and see the service runner who took my truck. I ask him how it went. He replies, "They didn't tell you?". I told him nobody told me anything. What's up? "Well, the other service station can't smog the truck either because it's a hybrid." "I'll have one of the other guys talk to you."

By now I'm getting seriously annoyed. The story I now get is that the ONLY place in the area that can smog the truck (or any hybrid vehcile from what I gathered) is Cal Poly Pomona and to bring it back Sunday evening. They'll give me a loaner, take the truck over on Monday to get it taken care of.

To finsh the experience, I inquire one more time about the speedo recalibration. This guy shrugs his shoulders and says "I don't know if we do that."

I'm then introduced to a guy from Northridge Tire who happens to be there and he tells me don't worry about it. "As long you go no more than +20 on the size you're fine." I tell him I went +40. 245/75 was stock and I'm now running 285/75.
"Well, some trucks come with 265/75 stock, so you're still okay."

At that point, I decided if no one else cares, then I'm not going to worry about it for now. Once Hypertech or HPTuners develop software for my truck, I'll deal with it then.

What a morning. 3 hours for nothing.

injdinjn

A brand new vehicle needs to be smogged. WTF.

And the only place that can do a hybrid is Cal Poly Pomona. DUH

And lucky you, a lot boy gets to drive your new truck all over town.

BretD 88GTA

Technically, it's an "Almost New" vehicle. It was a GM fleet vehicle and had 6500 miles on it when I bought it.

Since it's not a true hybrid-electric vehicle like a Toyota Prius, it doesn't qualify for the smog exemptions that the Prius does. To add to it, from what I've learned, the GM hybrid trucks use a completely different operating software in the computer.

This means nobody (but the dealership) is set-up to deal with these trucks. There's no aftermarket support either at this time. I guess Cal Poly is the only place with the right software to test the truck.

I'm intentionally giving the dealership the truck with low fuel. Let them fill it up to drive it all over So. Cal. They're not doing it on my dime.

On the upside, the new wheels and tires look way cool! I'll post some pics later.

BretD 88GTA

I have good news.

Okay, I spoke to the B.A.R. this morning and according to them, NO SMOG CHECK is required – even for a change of ownership – since the truck is so new.

As of January 1st, 2005 the law changed. Apparently the dealership nor the DMV is up to speed on this.

Here is a chart from the B.A.R. Web site for anyone who is interested:

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/ftp/pdff...smog_check.pdf

2_point8_boy

Yup...Hybrids are exempt for 10 years...lucky you

BretD 88GTA

Except that my truck is what's known as a "mild-hybrid". It has NO electric drive to the wheels. It simply uses an auto start/stop function while stopped and stores electricity so the truck can power 120v tools and such.

So, I don't fall into the exempt category like a Toyota Prius. Basically, my truck has to be smogged like any other vehicle. The rules have changed though and a "change of ownership" smog check is no loner required if the vehicle is new enough.

The snafu came about because the dealership dropped the ball IMHO. They should be more informed about their products and the smog regulations. The DMV is also apparently not up to speed on the current smog requirements.

The B.A.R. also said that the truck should be able to be tested at any smog facility. The tech I talked with thought that maybe the smog shops are either scared to test it or just not informed enough about these trucks and don't think they can do it.

You gotta love how GM has under-informed the industry about these trucks too. They release a new model and don't give the repair shops or aftermarket any info. And they wonder why Ford is out selling them right now and why their current profits fell unexpectedly forcing cutbacks.

Ford handed out new Mustangs to the aftermarket companies so they could have products available by the time the cars hit dealerships. There's a ton of support for the '05 Mustang out there.

12secSS

Glad you got it sorted out Bret.

As for Ford ... they didn't even know what was on the 2005 Mustangs, we got three different T5 shifter designs from them for our Ripper model. We finally had to use a Tier 1 supplier (that makes the shifter for Ford) to send us the actual production piece, and not the pre-production pieces.

BretD 88GTA

Goofy.

I know that Ford did give some companies either complete or partial cars to take measurements off of. Chris Foster's neighbor received a body, sans drivetrain and suspension, to test fit body panels and accessories.

drop-top IROC

And as far as the wheels go, if you are running larger tires w/o recalibrating, only a fraction of your true mileage gets recorded on the odometer so essentially, you get a longer warranty! (I'm just trying to put a positive spin on this... )

BretD 88GTA

Crud.

I just touched base with the dealership (since they never returned my phone call from this morning) and I do have to take the truck in.

Turns out it was an out of state vehicle. According to all the rules, it needs a smog check to get it registered in CA.

Cal Poly is a Referee Station and they have to clear it.

injdinjn

All that should have been up front.
They should bring a loaner to you, at your convienience, take your truck, and when they bring the truck back pick up the loaner.

BretD 88GTA

The dealership is close to my house and on the way home from work. I dropped off the truck and they gave me a 2003 Ford Exploder from the used car lot. They will also fill the tank on the truck before I pick it up.

If all goes well, I'll have my truck back tomorrow evening. I told the sales manager that this is pretty frustrating. He agreed and said they'll take care of me.

I should have tried to get a GTO as a loaner.

drop-top IROC

Guest

They better take care of you.

Now that the whole story is out, on any used car transaction the SELLER is responsible for providing a valid smog check certificate if its required. It is totally up to them to handle it. They should have had that already done before you were handed the keys.

2_point8_boy

Also, if YOU get the smog done and it fails, the SELLER is 100% responsible for the repairs it takes to get it to pass, even if they sold it "AS IS." Even if you signed something that says "AS IS" on it, if you had to take it to court and the seller brought that up, the courts would go "that's cute" and tell them to fix the car. Isn't that awesome!?!?!?

Here are the rules that changed as of Jan. 1st:

Vehicles 6 model years and newer exempt from Biennial Smog

Vehicles 4 model years and newer exempt from Change of ownership Smog

True Hybrids exempt for 10 years

Everything 1976 and newer gets smogged FOREVER. No more rolling 30 year exemption.

BretD 88GTA

Tell me about it. This is what has me so pissed. They should have resolved all this before it was ever put on display.

Instead, they originally tried to get it smogged at the next door service station they typically use. The station said no-can-do, so the service tech brought it back to the dealership and NO ONE pursued it any further.

It's a lot of B.S. The tech at the B.A.R. I talked with felt that any smog station should be able to test the truck. In his opinion, they're probably not familiar enough with these trucks so they're scared to test them.

Heck, even the B.A.R. isn't familiar with this truck. The tech was really interested and asked me all kinds of questions. Even his two hybrid experts had no clue about this truck. It was totally new information to them. That's GM marketing for you.

These trucks are currently only available in AK, CA, FL, NV, OR and WA. You'd think GM would have held some seminars for the repair industry to give them info. about it.

The real kicker is that there's a nice big sticker under the hood that says "This Vehicle is California Emissions Compliant."

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

That's why I hate dealerships. The same damn stuff happens here allll the time. Now they dont get to touch my car for even as much as a wheel alignment.

2_point8_boy

Here's the problem with the California Smog Program.

First off, BAR doesn't know their a$$ from an oil filler. Most of the in the field don't know what is going on, have never had a smog license, and make up rules as they go.

Second, Manufacturers give us only the information they are REQUIRED by law to give us.

Third, Hybrids are just now getting popular and the problem that we have with them when it comes to smog, is that there is no way of turning off the electric motor. We need to test the engine for it's emissions output, but if we can't get it to turn on and power off that, then it's pointless.

Fourth, Without the proper information, how can we, as techs, be expected to test the vehicle properly. If we screw up on the test, then BAR will come down on us and hit the tech with a BEEFY fine. Or even worse, what if we put the vehicle on the dyno and it messes something up? The customer will blame the tech, and the shop will end up paying for it. I've been there twice in the last month, I had a car on the dyno and something broke, the customer blamed me for it, but the fact of the matter is, that it was already broken before I got the vehicle. It's just not a chance that I, or any other shop in their right mind should take. We don't know the equipment, we shouldn't test it.

Fifth, man there are a ot of complaints I have...lol, it's all run by money given to the state, not by the fact that we DO need to clean up our air. That's why the EPA might be taking over our program in the next few years. There are rumors about it, and things will get a lot tougher, just because California decided to make rules based on who gives them more cash.

All this, and keep in mind that's it's coming FROM a smog tech. There's more, but I think that the post is getting a little long.

BretD 88GTA

That is something that the B.A.R. tech mentioned. Most hybrids don't have a way to disable the auto start/stop feature of the engine, so the average shop can't test them.

I kind of question that information tough. How in the world do you diagnose and repair the gas engine if it won't run at an idle? You have to be able to hook it up to scanner to read the computer data while it's running. How do you check for fluid leaks if need be?


My truck has 4 methods of disabling the auto s/s feature. You might want to make a note of these for futrure reference at your shop.

1) Switch on Tow/Haul mode — All this does is change the shift points of the trans, but it also turns off the auto s/s.

2) Switch on the windshield defroster — This cycles the AC compressor. Probably not practical for a smog test, but the engine will run continuosly. This is what I typically do in heavy stop-and-go traffic or when stopping on a hill.

Here's where it gets even easier:

3) Simply open the driver's door and leave it open — The engine will start and stay running.

4) Simply open the hood and leave it open — Again, the engine will fire up and stay running while the hood is up.

At that point, my truck operates like any other GM truck on the road. Heck, I've had it for barely two months and I'm practically an expert on how it operates. I could give seminars and make some $$$.

One last thing I really need to point out. I picked up my truck tonight and guess what — the gas gauge had barely moved and they only logged 8.6 miles on the truck. I set the business trip odometer to keep track and also logged the main odometer reading.

You know what that means — my truck got nowhere near Cal Poly Pomona and the referee station. It went no further than just down the street and back. So, some local smog shop did the test.

On the one hand, I'm relieved since I was expecting 100+ miles to have been clocked off. On the other hand, I feel like I've been 100% jerked around by the dealership.

As one last insult, they gave me a weak 2003 Ford Explorer as a loaner — WITH NO GAS IN IT. I had to put $10 in it to get to work and back.

When I showed the receipt to the sales guy tonight, he told me just to swing by in few days and he'll put $10 of fuel in my truck. I'll be calling the sales manager tomorrow to make sure they follow thru.

Other than this little snafu, I love my truck and I'm glad I bought it. I may pop for CARFAX report though just to get more history on it.

2_point8_boy

That is a major problem, right now, you need specialized equipment to do a lot of those things, and it's so expensive, only dealerships have it, for the most part.

That's why Mazda decided not to have a Hybrid version of the Tribute like the Escape. They don't want to have to spend the money on the equipment it takes to work on it.

I will print out that info, it's something that the manufacturers and the state are supposed to provide us with when the vehicle comes out, but unfortunatly, they suck and don't.

BretD 88GTA

You gotta love the internet. I went to the B.A.R. Web site and was able to look up the verification of the smog check on my truck. It was indeed completed at a Referee Center in Woodland Hills, right down the street from the dealership.

The dealership sales manager totally goofed up in what he was telling me. He kept saying they had to go to Cal Poly. They went to Pierce Community College – 5 minutes from my house.

Crud, I wouldn't have been so bent out of shape if I had known that. I half-suspected Pierce College would have a Smog Referee Center set up.

injdinjn

I dont think any one person did anything at the dealership. Joe tells Sam and Sam tells Jose etc etc.

BretD 88GTA

Yes, you are probably right. As the sales manager said to me the night I dropped the truck off, "We just didn't know it was such a big deal."

These hybrid trucks are so new, and GM hasn't spread much info. about them, that the dealership just wasn't up to speed. It was also obvious that there is a slight lack of communication between their sales staff and service staff.

In the end, everything worked out fine. I'll just chalk it up to a learning experince and I'll be better prepared the next time I have to deal with them.

I've done business with this dealership for a number of years and this is the fourth vehicle my family has purchased there. For the most part, I've had pretty good service with an occasional hiccup.