Russ-So Cal

I was at Frys this afternoon to pick up some speakers for the TA. I was browsing at the magazine stand and noticed the current issue of "Pontiac Performance" (may be Performers, I don't remember for sure) has a dyno comparison of 4 GTOs. They compared a new GTO with a 1966 389 tri-power, a 1970 455 ho, and a 1971 400 GTO Judge. The 04 GTO puts out more horse power than any of the others, and more torque the 1966 389, about the same torque as the 400, and about 40 lbs/ft less than the 455.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Interesting and I bet better gas milage. Also probably has better manners than the others. Allen

BretD 88GTA

GTO's have always been heavy cars and low 14's off the showroom floor were considered fast for the 1/4 mile back in the 60's.

The new GTO is catching flack for it's bland styling, but I still think by the '05 or '06 version it will get a bit of a makeover. It will probably get some more hp too.

Keep in mind, GM probably wants the new GTO to compete with the BMW 3 series - basically, a performance sedan with broader appeal. They're not interested in producing the "boy racer" muscle cars anymore that have a limited sales market. That's why the Camaro and Firebird went bye-bye.

BrandenCali

Exactly.. They are more selling the Tahoe Yukon's in both series and Suv's.. And also easier to keep the cars looking all the same Im not impressed by any of there vehicles in the same average as the Camaro was..

BretD 88GTA

Many people seem to have the impression that the new GTO is a replacement for the Camaro/Firebird. Thus explains their disappointment.

I don't see it that way. I see it as being GM's answer to the Euro and Asian sport sedans. Today's Yuppies don't want to be seen in a "bitchin' Camaro". They want to be pseudo Euro professionals with a sophistcated, yet fast, sedan.

Plus, for the average person/consumer, the Camaro had a bit of a negative image. They saw them as "Red-neck" cars.

(Since when is red-neck a nasty word? I had to cheat the speliing to get it to show up in the message. )

Guest

Well if their intent is to compete with BMW or Mercedes (or any other comparable car), they have a LOT of work to do. The back seat may as well not exist at this point.

BretD 88GTA

What are the back seats in the BMW 3 Series like? I've never sat in one, so I don't know for sure, but I'd guess they're kind of small too.

Also, the GTO is probably the "low-end" of the scale for GM. Cadillac has a new sport sedan that's more in the BMW/Mercedes price range and you can sit in the back seats.

Guest

They are small, but not so much that I noticed... and you know what I look like. The problem isnt really the size, the rear seat area is ok, once you get that far. Its probably going to be a future Olympic event, getting into the back seat of a new GTO. Hurdle and high jump, without planting your face.

shotgun

Check out this LS6/LS2 dyno graph...
http://64.81.147.40//modules/gallery...50&id=P4237723

Also the LS7 (427ci) has been confirmed and we'll see it in the c6 the hp rating is somewhere between 500-575.

CustomX

i dunno, i drove one at the gm autoshow in motion down here at qualcomm stadium several months back.

The first thing i did was test out the back seat. With my buddy tim whos 6'1 in the front and my 6'0 self in the back i was very comfortable. Much muhc much more so then any third or 4th gen, or mustang for that matter.

My overal imperssion was:

The shifter, smooth liek butter and easy to wrestle with.
Seats, pretty damn nice, far better then the fbody, same witht he rest of the interior.

Had a bit of nose heavyness during hard driving, as it seemed to love to roll around it from front tire to front tire. Though its certianly a capale handler, i think a differnt set of springs and shocks would do WONDERS for the car.

Plenty of moding room. You can sit in the engine bay its begging for blowers etc hehe.

Good power too, might not be the lightest car but anythign with an ls1 and t56 is going to feel great with the go go pedal down.

All in all.......
best 30k doller new american car on the market imo.

Guest

Did you attempt to get into the back seat with the front seats anywhere other than all the way forward? Even with the seats all the way forward, tilted, there is maybe a 1" gap between the door jamb and the seat.

As I said, its not the size, its getting there. I dont have such problems with any other car I have tried, even 2 door Ford Escorts. They have alot of work to do, having such an inaccessible seat may as well be removed IMO. They could make the seat as big as my living room but if I have to crawl through a 1" wide crack to get there, its pretty useless.

Guest

The buying public must agree:

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...olumnist_levin

Russ-So Cal

I haven't checked on it because I am not in the market for any new car ever again. I'm happy with the vehicles I have, and won't pay new car prices for anything again. That said, I've read on other boards that Pontiac dealers are tacking on $10,000.00 above sticker for anyone who wants to buy a GTO. If that is true, could dealer greed have anything to do with the slow sales. The other thing that may cause G.M. problems is Chrysler coming out with a rear drive 300 offering the new hemi under the hood on a front engine rear drive package.

BretD 88GTA

$10k over sticker???? For a GTO? Uh yeah, that would kill sales.

The article Chris posted mentions that the GTO is selling well here in So. Cal and that it sells well in Australia. It may be that GM dropped the ball in the marketing dept.

GM needs to decide if the GTO is supposed to be a modern muscle car or a high performance wanna-be euro sedan and then promote it accordingly. This up coming cheasy TV movie won't do much for the GTO either.

IMHO, GM needs to go the euro sedan route and forget the muscle car angle. The GTO is too bland to appeal to the muscle car crowd and a true muscle car (i.e. - Camaro/Firebird) doesn't have wide enough sales appeal among the general public.

CustomX

cant say i did, cause, when you get intot he back seat, you generally move the seat forward in 2 door cars I didnt notice any "beyond normal" difficulties entering and exiting, even with my size 16 shoes *shrug*.

TA

iTrader: (1)

When I got into the back of the GTO, there is a button you can push on the seatback that travels the front seat forward by it's electric motor. it's slow, but it's there. It was easier to get into the GTO seat than the Mustang Mach 1 seat, which I tried back to back, not to mention how little room in the Mustang and the cheezy interior once you were in there. I'm 6'4", and the GTO back seat was very comfy for me as long as the front seat was not all the way back. Way better than any other 2 door I've ever been in in my life. I actually had head room!

Truth be known, everyone who has actually driven the car loves it, and forgets any flaws. I can't for the life of me understand why someone would be so hung up on rear seat egress or styling if he had actually driven the car. And yes, the scuttlebutt is that next year the GTO will have hood scoops and the LS2 (400HP), if it survives the negative people who seem bent on killing anything fun.

The original '64 GTO was pretty plain looking, too. That didn't seem to bother anyone back then. They were interested in performance, not getting into the back seat, where the car is built, or if it has scoops on the hood. I feel better now.

Troy
So Cal

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

If they really want to build a hot combo...just drop an LS 1 and the 6-spd. with rear wheel dr. into a Monte Carlo (maybe a Jeff Gordon model) and watch the thousands of Nascar people go berzerk.
JMO

Russ-So Cal

I think the current GTO is just a stop gap measure because G.M. doesn't have a front engine rear drive package in this country. They can't put the engine up front in the current Monte Carlo package. They are probably working on something now to replace the GTO that will be ready for production in 2006 or 2007.
I would expect it to be something related to the NASCAR styling, and hopefully they will actually promote it. I've seen no comercials on tv for the GTO at all. The only place I've seen any sort of promotion for it is in car mags.

langss

OK here's the thing. As you all know I have a 2000 SS. So when I test drove the GTO I already had some LS1 experience. I dont think it was all that much different. I think the seats were a little more comfortable,and the air worked better than it does in my SS. My Grandson said he liked the back seat better than my SS or my TA.Being 8 yrs old he is a back seat expert. I didnt get a chance to really get on it, but again it pretty much drove the same as the SS.I doubt I would pay anything near the price of a new Corvette for one, so if the Dealers are tacking on another $10,000 I think I would just look for a clean Z06 and make the Grandson sit in the front seat.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Aw...poor kid....uh...can I call you Grandpa?

langss

Hell Ya

BretD 88GTA

Except that the LS1 is about to go the way of the L98 and LT1. The LS6 and LS2 are GM's hot new engines.

injdinjn

I got into the back seat of the GTO but wasn't sure I could get out. The angle of the rear seat and the small opening between the b piller and front seat makes it pretty tricky. The room is about the same as a 3rd gen but the smaller door makes access more difficult.

When you add in the dealer markup I would go the vette route.
Plus the colors are pretty limited.

I owned a 65 GTO. Apperance and rear seat access was a lot better than the 04 GTO, but then the 65 was a bigger car, I think the 65 weighed less. I haven't driven a 04 but I am sure it stops and turns better than the 65.

BretD 88GTA

Who the heck needs back seats for anything more than storage anyway?

If buying a GTO, back seat space wouldn't be a concern to me. If you want rear passenger space, well, that's what Cadillacs, Lincolns and SUVs are for.

injdinjn

The back seat of a 1950 Chrysler New Yorker. That brings back memories.