TPI go fast tips and tricks?
#251
Supreme Member
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Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Is it a nice car? Because if it's in nice condition, it'll retain it's value best if it's left alone. You're not going to get a TPI car into modern performance car 'street cred' without hacking the car up and potentially lowering the value. If it's just a beater, I'd still consider that a 1LE has a certain collector tax associated with it, that make it more valuable if it's left alone. However, if you're bound and determined to go faster with that particular car, the mods that will actually give you a seat-of-the-pants boost will be relatively significant. Look at things like headers and a nice free-flowing exhaust, an intake other than TPI (miniram, stealthram, 4bbl), Heads/Cam/Intake (intake other than TPI). If you really want to kick it up a notch, look at an LS1 swap. I hate to make suggestions like pitching the TPI on the shelf, but realistically if you don't have serious hardcore TPI nostalgia, you're probably going to be disappointed with the results of any mod-fest.
If you didn't get the jist of much of the thread, the "free mods" (I can barely think "free mods" with a straight face) really don't add up to anything meaningful. They do succeed in hacking up a car and opening it to potential issues, like having a flat tire at 2am without a spare since it's at home in the garage, or showing up to your destination with you and your date soaked in sweat because A/C is for *****'s, or smelling like exhaust byproducts because catalytic converters are for *****'s. They won't make you go much faster, but you'll sure experience the negatives.
It kind of comes down to the idea of a street car, and a race car. Obviously a race car is a specialized tool that doesn't have to do anything well but win races. A street car has to function as reliable transportation. Somewhere in the middle the two can briefly pass in the night, but neither will do the job the other does as well as the other. Wouldn't he enjoy the car more if it's something he can actually drive instead of the 'bitchin' Camaro' that spends more time on jackstands in the garage than driving around? Sheesh, when I was in highschool I drove an 83 Camaro with an LG4, I couldn't dream of a 92 TPI car. Most of the cars my friends drove were equally slow. One friend looks back with fondness on a 2.5L 5spd 92 S10 with zero options, vinyl bench seat, and rubber floor mat. I guess the point is that the car doesn't have to be thrilling and spectacular to be the subject of nostalgic memories.
If you didn't get the jist of much of the thread, the "free mods" (I can barely think "free mods" with a straight face) really don't add up to anything meaningful. They do succeed in hacking up a car and opening it to potential issues, like having a flat tire at 2am without a spare since it's at home in the garage, or showing up to your destination with you and your date soaked in sweat because A/C is for *****'s, or smelling like exhaust byproducts because catalytic converters are for *****'s. They won't make you go much faster, but you'll sure experience the negatives.
It kind of comes down to the idea of a street car, and a race car. Obviously a race car is a specialized tool that doesn't have to do anything well but win races. A street car has to function as reliable transportation. Somewhere in the middle the two can briefly pass in the night, but neither will do the job the other does as well as the other. Wouldn't he enjoy the car more if it's something he can actually drive instead of the 'bitchin' Camaro' that spends more time on jackstands in the garage than driving around? Sheesh, when I was in highschool I drove an 83 Camaro with an LG4, I couldn't dream of a 92 TPI car. Most of the cars my friends drove were equally slow. One friend looks back with fondness on a 2.5L 5spd 92 S10 with zero options, vinyl bench seat, and rubber floor mat. I guess the point is that the car doesn't have to be thrilling and spectacular to be the subject of nostalgic memories.
#252
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Car: 1988 IROC Z Convertible
Engine: 305 TPI (LB9)
Transmission: 700 R4
Axle/Gears: G80 GU2
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Is it a nice car? Because if it's in nice condition, it'll retain it's value best if it's left alone. You're not going to get a TPI car into modern performance car 'street cred' without hacking the car up and potentially lowering the value. If it's just a beater, I'd still consider that a 1LE has a certain collector tax associated with it, that make it more valuable if it's left alone. However, if you're bound and determined to go faster with that particular car, the mods that will actually give you a seat-of-the-pants boost will be relatively significant. Look at things like headers and a nice free-flowing exhaust, an intake other than TPI (miniram, stealthram, 4bbl), Heads/Cam/Intake (intake other than TPI). If you really want to kick it up a notch, look at an LS1 swap. I hate to make suggestions like pitching the TPI on the shelf, but realistically if you don't have serious hardcore TPI nostalgia, you're probably going to be disappointed with the results of any mod-fest.
If you didn't get the jist of much of the thread, the "free mods" (I can barely think "free mods" with a straight face) really don't add up to anything meaningful. They do succeed in hacking up a car and opening it to potential issues, like having a flat tire at 2am without a spare since it's at home in the garage, or showing up to your destination with you and your date soaked in sweat because A/C is for *****'s, or smelling like exhaust byproducts because catalytic converters are for *****'s. They won't make you go much faster, but you'll sure experience the negatives.
It kind of comes down to the idea of a street car, and a race car. Obviously a race car is a specialized tool that doesn't have to do anything well but win races. A street car has to function as reliable transportation. Somewhere in the middle the two can briefly pass in the night, but neither will do the job the other does as well as the other. Wouldn't he enjoy the car more if it's something he can actually drive instead of the 'bitchin' Camaro' that spends more time on jackstands in the garage than driving around? Sheesh, when I was in highschool I drove an 83 Camaro with an LG4, I couldn't dream of a 92 TPI car. Most of the cars my friends drove were equally slow. One friend looks back with fondness on a 2.5L 5spd 92 S10 with zero options, vinyl bench seat, and rubber floor mat. I guess the point is that the car doesn't have to be thrilling and spectacular to be the subject of nostalgic memories.
If you didn't get the jist of much of the thread, the "free mods" (I can barely think "free mods" with a straight face) really don't add up to anything meaningful. They do succeed in hacking up a car and opening it to potential issues, like having a flat tire at 2am without a spare since it's at home in the garage, or showing up to your destination with you and your date soaked in sweat because A/C is for *****'s, or smelling like exhaust byproducts because catalytic converters are for *****'s. They won't make you go much faster, but you'll sure experience the negatives.
It kind of comes down to the idea of a street car, and a race car. Obviously a race car is a specialized tool that doesn't have to do anything well but win races. A street car has to function as reliable transportation. Somewhere in the middle the two can briefly pass in the night, but neither will do the job the other does as well as the other. Wouldn't he enjoy the car more if it's something he can actually drive instead of the 'bitchin' Camaro' that spends more time on jackstands in the garage than driving around? Sheesh, when I was in highschool I drove an 83 Camaro with an LG4, I couldn't dream of a 92 TPI car. Most of the cars my friends drove were equally slow. One friend looks back with fondness on a 2.5L 5spd 92 S10 with zero options, vinyl bench seat, and rubber floor mat. I guess the point is that the car doesn't have to be thrilling and spectacular to be the subject of nostalgic memories.
#253
Supreme Member
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
So with my reading coming to an end and my son and I scratching head and nether areas we are still wondering what to do with our 92 1LE TPI. It is my sons first car and we are not planning on him going to the track but after a yr of driving and no tickets or wrecks I would like to bump up the motor for his senior year. I am trying to find threads on the cutting of the airbox, I did something like that on my 05 Magnum RT and it worked nice with the C.A.I. Is there an actual thread with proven mods? At LXFORUMS.com they have a list of mods that were tested at the same time on the dyno and air strip. All the vendors tried out their products, the best one was a member named REVrand Hammer and he made a cold air out of pvc parts that outdid 400 dollar cold airs! This is a great site and I thank you all for helping out my son and I with our resto!
https://www.thirdgen.org/technical-articles/
Within that there is an article for a ram air set up
https://www.thirdgen.org/ramair/
Porting the plenum and either adding an AFPR or learning how to burn your own chips will deliver good results, complementing the ram air effect. Below is a link with pictures showing a ported plenum. There's a lot of other really good information on his sight, especially dealing with burning your own chips.
https://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/buildup/plenum/
Here's a picture from that group showing the EGR dam removed -
Just those mods and a good exhaust system will really wake up a TPI car without causing any damage to the value of anything except a cherry low mileage car. Plus, you could cruise eBay and find a donor box to cut up and keep your stock one and any of the rest of the stock parts you replace as far as that goes.
#254
Supreme Member
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Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Those mods won't do jack ****. That's the point. You can hack up all the air boxes, gut all the cats, and stick as many Radio Shack resistors into the MAT plug that you want, and you're not going to shave a full second off the quarter time of a reasonably well equipped TPI car. They're the kind of things that are cheap and easy, and they make you feel good that you're doing something, but they don't add up to anything in the real world. You would need the worlds most perfect strip conditions, or a dyno to see any measured difference, and it'd still be miniscule.
#255
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Originally Posted by Drew
Those mods won't do jack ****. That's the point.
- Rob.
#256
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Car: 1992 Trans Am
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.23
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Gentlemen, gentlemen.......Vince says otherwise??!?
According to him, exhaust and the airbox mod will shave a full second off? Imagine if this guy did that AND more??
Hell,
I remember watching Clint Eastwood (not the actor), run his bone stock G92 T5 Iroc at Phil McCracken raceway to the tune of 11.89 @171. No mods, he just iced the intake after his first run (14.5@91).
You would be amazed what a 14 dollar harbor freight dremel kit, and a bag o' ice from your local gas station will do to these cars. And no, don't ask me for videos or dyno slips. I have told you people time and time again, recording equipment will fry a TPI ECM right on the spot. Dyno sheets are impossible as well, since an iced down TPI will literally disintegrate a dyno wheel on the spot.
According to him, exhaust and the airbox mod will shave a full second off? Imagine if this guy did that AND more??
Hell,
I remember watching Clint Eastwood (not the actor), run his bone stock G92 T5 Iroc at Phil McCracken raceway to the tune of 11.89 @171. No mods, he just iced the intake after his first run (14.5@91).
You would be amazed what a 14 dollar harbor freight dremel kit, and a bag o' ice from your local gas station will do to these cars. And no, don't ask me for videos or dyno slips. I have told you people time and time again, recording equipment will fry a TPI ECM right on the spot. Dyno sheets are impossible as well, since an iced down TPI will literally disintegrate a dyno wheel on the spot.
#257
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Car: 1992 Trans Am
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.23
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
And I haven't even mentioned royal purple lubricants yet. Witnessed first hand, via satellite, a close friend shave 2.1 seconds off his ET, and add 61MPH to his trap speed with a FULL royal purple lubricant package.....
#258
Member
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Is it a nice car? Because if it's in nice condition, it'll retain it's value best if it's left alone. You're not going to get a TPI car into modern performance car 'street cred' without hacking the car up and potentially lowering the value. If it's just a beater, I'd still consider that a 1LE has a certain collector tax associated with it, that make it more valuable if it's left alone. However, if you're bound and determined to go faster with that particular car, the mods that will actually give you a seat-of-the-pants boost will be relatively significant. Look at things like headers and a nice free-flowing exhaust, an intake other than TPI (miniram, stealthram, 4bbl), Heads/Cam/Intake (intake other than TPI). If you really want to kick it up a notch, look at an LS1 swap. I hate to make suggestions like pitching the TPI on the shelf, but realistically if you don't have serious hardcore TPI nostalgia, you're probably going to be disappointed with the results of any mod-fest.
If you didn't get the jist of much of the thread, the "free mods" (I can barely think "free mods" with a straight face) really don't add up to anything meaningful. They do succeed in hacking up a car and opening it to potential issues, like having a flat tire at 2am without a spare since it's at home in the garage, or showing up to your destination with you and your date soaked in sweat because A/C is for *****'s, or smelling like exhaust byproducts because catalytic converters are for *****'s. They won't make you go much faster, but you'll sure experience the negatives.
It kind of comes down to the idea of a street car, and a race car. Obviously a race car is a specialized tool that doesn't have to do anything well but win races. A street car has to function as reliable transportation. Somewhere in the middle the two can briefly pass in the night, but neither will do the job the other does as well as the other. Wouldn't he enjoy the car more if it's something he can actually drive instead of the 'bitchin' Camaro' that spends more time on jackstands in the garage than driving around? Sheesh, when I was in highschool I drove an 83 Camaro with an LG4, I couldn't dream of a 92 TPI car. Most of the cars my friends drove were equally slow. One friend looks back with fondness on a 2.5L 5spd 92 S10 with zero options, vinyl bench seat, and rubber floor mat. I guess the point is that the car doesn't have to be thrilling and spectacular to be the subject of nostalgic memories.
If you didn't get the jist of much of the thread, the "free mods" (I can barely think "free mods" with a straight face) really don't add up to anything meaningful. They do succeed in hacking up a car and opening it to potential issues, like having a flat tire at 2am without a spare since it's at home in the garage, or showing up to your destination with you and your date soaked in sweat because A/C is for *****'s, or smelling like exhaust byproducts because catalytic converters are for *****'s. They won't make you go much faster, but you'll sure experience the negatives.
It kind of comes down to the idea of a street car, and a race car. Obviously a race car is a specialized tool that doesn't have to do anything well but win races. A street car has to function as reliable transportation. Somewhere in the middle the two can briefly pass in the night, but neither will do the job the other does as well as the other. Wouldn't he enjoy the car more if it's something he can actually drive instead of the 'bitchin' Camaro' that spends more time on jackstands in the garage than driving around? Sheesh, when I was in highschool I drove an 83 Camaro with an LG4, I couldn't dream of a 92 TPI car. Most of the cars my friends drove were equally slow. One friend looks back with fondness on a 2.5L 5spd 92 S10 with zero options, vinyl bench seat, and rubber floor mat. I guess the point is that the car doesn't have to be thrilling and spectacular to be the subject of nostalgic memories.
#259
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Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Those mods won't do jack ****. That's the point. You can hack up all the air boxes, gut all the cats, and stick as many Radio Shack resistors into the MAT plug that you want, and you're not going to shave a full second off the quarter time of a reasonably well equipped TPI car. They're the kind of things that are cheap and easy, and they make you feel good that you're doing something, but they don't add up to anything in the real world. You would need the worlds most perfect strip conditions, or a dyno to see any measured difference, and it'd still be miniscule.
#260
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Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
It's been so long since we stayed up all night enjoying each other's company. We should really get together and catch up sometime.
Sincerely,
Oranges
Yeah, making a 17 second slug into a 16 second slug is not quite the same as making a 14.5 car run 13.5. This isn't the TBI board. This isn't the 'TBI go fast tips and tricks' thread. WTF yo?
#261
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Car: 1989 IROC-Z. Original owner
Engine: LB9. Dual Cats. Big Cam
Transmission: World Class T-5
Axle/Gears: BW 3.45
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Those mods won't do jack ****. That's the point. You can hack up all the air boxes, gut all the cats, and stick as many Radio Shack resistors into the MAT plug that you want, and you're not going to shave a full second off the quarter time of a reasonably well equipped TPI car. They're the kind of things that are cheap and easy, and they make you feel good that you're doing something, but they don't add up to anything in the real world. You would need the worlds most perfect strip conditions, or a dyno to see any measured difference, and it'd still be miniscule.
I think all those little mods add up. 1or 2 horsepower plus 1or 2 horsepower plus 1or 2 horsepower add up.
Removing the EGR wall will also get you a few hundred extra usable RPM up top on a 305, which isn't as restricted by runner size as a 350.
#262
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Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
In thirdgen lore, a K&N filter is 5-15hp. TPIS claims 7hp for a throttlebody airfoil. Hypertech says the thermomaster is worth 15hp. So I've bolted on 37hp in a sunday afternoon. 37+235=272hp. Look out LT1s I'ma coming for YOU! Fast forward a few weeks... "Guy's whys my 383 so slow?"
#263
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Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
In thirdgen lore, a K&N filter is 5-15hp. TPIS claims 7hp for a throttlebody airfoil. Hypertech says the thermomaster is worth 15hp. So I've bolted on 37hp in a sunday afternoon. 37+235=272hp. Look out LT1s I'ma coming for YOU! Fast forward a few weeks... "Guy's whys my 383 so slow?"
#264
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Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
If we go by internet lore, 10hp is 1 tenth of a second in the 1/4. Can your butt feel .1 of a second in the quarter? Because mine can't.
Every modification I made to my Mustang added about 50hp. You can feel 50hp. TPI cars just don't respond like that unless it's nitrous, or a power adder, or you change the intake manifold.
Every modification I made to my Mustang added about 50hp. You can feel 50hp. TPI cars just don't respond like that unless it's nitrous, or a power adder, or you change the intake manifold.
#266
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Yeah, those may have been claims back in the day. Maybe that claimed 15 actually adds 3 or that claimed 7 is actually 1. My point is that if you add a few of these together, perhaps you get another 10 or 12 HP or so in total. Not much by today's standards, but on a 220-ish horsepower car, it made a difference.
#267
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...any-one-2.html
here was a good thread on dyno gains from bolt ons L98
here was a good thread on dyno gains from bolt ons L98
#268
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Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
More people screw up a perfectly good car trying to do retarded **** that ain't going to stack up to anything on the street.
#269
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Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Thank you for your help! We have a 92 Z28 TPI 5.7 with 94k miles that we are restoring for a dailey for my sons first car. He will drive the 99 tahoe we restored in the winter (we live in Oh). No racing but would like the seat of the pants speedometer to be a small pucker factor for him. The first owner was hard on her, the drive shaft was supposed to be aluminum and have 3.73 gears according to the RPO codes. We put 2.73 so he doesn't have quite the 0 ta 60 fun factor till his senior yr if he is a good boy!😁 Our main goal is to make it to where it can breathe easier and have some performance but we have no inclination of taking it to a strip or doing Fast and Furious. Thank you again for any direction you might give us to make this a great first car!
Pics are about a week old. Kids are dumb. This kid did this with a damn Cavalier, but I've seen plenty that did it with LS1s and 2.8s and everything in between.
#270
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Car: '89 Formula
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Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
I never bought the "Big-Mouth Manifold," but I can tell some of you did
I lived in Mpls '80-2000, and knew Myron. I remember in '95 or so, he was renting out the Diacom software and cable for $50. I went to him in '94, he said: "put SFC, headers and cat-back exhaust then come back." I was surprised that he wouldn't sell me anything, or take my money. Later, I respected him for his forthright advice. I bought the SLP, rather than the Gale Banks through him.
One time, I drove down and the house right next door had exploded the night before due to a gas leak. No one died, but the house was pick-up sticks.
He was a nice enough guy, and the business has grown with the times.
I lived in Mpls '80-2000, and knew Myron. I remember in '95 or so, he was renting out the Diacom software and cable for $50. I went to him in '94, he said: "put SFC, headers and cat-back exhaust then come back." I was surprised that he wouldn't sell me anything, or take my money. Later, I respected him for his forthright advice. I bought the SLP, rather than the Gale Banks through him.
One time, I drove down and the house right next door had exploded the night before due to a gas leak. No one died, but the house was pick-up sticks.
He was a nice enough guy, and the business has grown with the times.
#271
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Big mouth was supposedly just a eddy intake that was port matched to their big tube runners. They charged 100$ more i believe for it making it not really worth it. Tpis always been overpriced imo. But its well proven that L98’s respond to intake manifold swaps. Tpis miniram works. Stealth ram works. And big mouth base and runner system will drop et at the track. 10-12 whp as shown in the thread i posted.
Again your typical bolt on L98 will gain 30 whp over stock. Good bit of money for that gain but it is what it is
Again your typical bolt on L98 will gain 30 whp over stock. Good bit of money for that gain but it is what it is
#272
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Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Dearest Apples,
It's been so long since we stayed up all night enjoying each other's company. We should really get together and catch up sometime.
Sincerely,
Oranges
Yeah, making a 17 second slug into a 16 second slug is not quite the same as making a 14.5 car run 13.5. This isn't the TBI board. This isn't the 'TBI go fast tips and tricks' thread. WTF yo?
It's been so long since we stayed up all night enjoying each other's company. We should really get together and catch up sometime.
Sincerely,
Oranges
Yeah, making a 17 second slug into a 16 second slug is not quite the same as making a 14.5 car run 13.5. This isn't the TBI board. This isn't the 'TBI go fast tips and tricks' thread. WTF yo?
I also want to say I can absolutely feel a 0.1 OR 0.2s difference in track times. Then again I have run a lot of passes down the track in the same vehicles and I have always been able to tell when I was about to have a great time slip.
As for TPI being a dog, not hardly. I ran a 15.006 @ 93 mph 1/4 with a F-car LT1 cammed 305 Vortec TPI in a 5,300 lbs G20 van with a 3.08 gear and a stock stalled 700r4. Stock 100K mile 305 long block out of an Express van that I stabbed a LT1 cam into, bolted an edelbrock base to it and the tri-y headers. Dialed in the 7730 ECM.
#273
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
i can tell you this, i could feel full exhaust and timing mods difference on my L98 car. But i felt a bigger difference in gears and torque converter. I also definitely felt a big difference in holley stealth ram swap over stock tpi
You guys really still believe the TPI injection system caps it at 4500-RPM lol? I'm running the stock TPI system, and I see 6000-RPM. Only real difference being the tune and cam, but I still use the stock runners and 48mm throttle body. I'll spare everyone the "it dropped this and that" crap, does anyone with an intake swap or LSX swap wanna run me locally..?
- Rob
#274
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
I can't believe people are still having these arguments, and I can't believe you of all people are taking part in it lol. You and I both know the timing tables of the stock L98 code, as well as the lower VE table, and what they both look like. Last time I uploaded a stock L98 bin into my car I think I seen maybe 28* of total timing at wide open throttle lol...
You guys really still believe the TPI injection system caps it at 4500-RPM lol? I'm running the stock TPI system, and I see 6000-RPM. Only real difference being the tune and cam, but I still use the stock runners and 48mm throttle body. I'll spare everyone the "it dropped this and that" crap, does anyone with an intake swap or LSX swap wanna run me locally..?
- Rob
You guys really still believe the TPI injection system caps it at 4500-RPM lol? I'm running the stock TPI system, and I see 6000-RPM. Only real difference being the tune and cam, but I still use the stock runners and 48mm throttle body. I'll spare everyone the "it dropped this and that" crap, does anyone with an intake swap or LSX swap wanna run me locally..?
- Rob
But rpm is how you make power na. Rpm is from shorter runner intakes.
i took a hotcam and ran it on a tpi setup vs lt1 motor. Lt made peak around 6000-6200. Pulled to 6500. Tpi made peak at 4400-4500, dead by 5000. 80 whp difference but slightly different heads and lt was a manual trans so more like 50 whp difference if an auto
if you dyno your 305 all motor i think you will be surprised lol i dont think it pulls as high as you think
#275
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
its absolutely the reason. Its physics. Its induction wave tuning. The long runner length absolutely tunes for low rpm. I have seen it over and over again. My hsr swap immediately moved peak from 4400 to 4800-5000. If there was a way to increase diameter of these runners it would help.
But rpm is how you make power na. Rpm is from shorter runner intakes.
i took a hotcam and ran it on a tpi setup vs lt1 motor. Lt made peak around 6000-6200. Pulled to 6500. Tpi made peak at 4400-4500, dead by 5000. 80 whp difference but slightly different heads and lt was a manual trans so more like 50 whp difference if an auto
if you dyno your 305 all motor i think you will be surprised lol i dont think it pulls as high as you think
But rpm is how you make power na. Rpm is from shorter runner intakes.
i took a hotcam and ran it on a tpi setup vs lt1 motor. Lt made peak around 6000-6200. Pulled to 6500. Tpi made peak at 4400-4500, dead by 5000. 80 whp difference but slightly different heads and lt was a manual trans so more like 50 whp difference if an auto
if you dyno your 305 all motor i think you will be surprised lol i dont think it pulls as high as you think
.... lol, are you kidding me???? Everything you said is completely besides the point, and I just did a datalog now as you were writing that, not even looking to pull 6000-RPM because I am just tuning for some fun later on this evening. I can go right back out there and show you 6000-RPM on a STOCK TPI system if you'd like. :shrug:
- Rob
#276
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
You asked if i thought tpi limits peak rpm to 4500 The answer is peak hp will fall in that 4200-4800 rpm
how is anything of what i said besides the point?
i can show you 6000 rpm on a stock enfine too... i hit near 6500 on my tpi when i accidentally threw the shifter into neutral instead of D. Engine will rev no problem but it aint making power up there I guarantee it
You guys really still believe the TPI injection system caps it at 4500-RPM lol?
how is anything of what i said besides the point?
i can show you 6000 rpm on a stock enfine too... i hit near 6500 on my tpi when i accidentally threw the shifter into neutral instead of D. Engine will rev no problem but it aint making power up there I guarantee it
#278
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
It IS besides the point because for one, you don't even know what gear I am in in terms of kPa, and two you didn't even ask me what size injectors I am running while seeing 56% Duty Cycle at only 5150-RPM. You know I am about ready to run a turbo again, so you should know what size injectors I am running at a minimum. As for the kPa showing 92-kPa, that is because I let off of the throttle just before that caption to show you where I was tuning, no reason to pull 6000-RPM on the street. Again if you want to see 100-kPa and 100-TPS% and 6000-RPM there is absolutely no problem...
- Rob
- Rob
#279
Supreme Member
iTrader: (58)
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Except it went from a 15.5 to a 14.5 with the stock cam/stock head L03 under the hood.
As for TPI being a dog, not hardly. I ran a 15.006 @ 93 mph 1/4 with a F-car LT1 cammed 305 Vortec TPI in a 5,300 lbs G20 van with a 3.08 gear and a stock stalled 700r4. Stock 100K mile 305 long block out of an Express van that I stabbed a LT1 cam into, bolted an edelbrock base to it and the tri-y headers.
As for TPI being a dog, not hardly. I ran a 15.006 @ 93 mph 1/4 with a F-car LT1 cammed 305 Vortec TPI in a 5,300 lbs G20 van with a 3.08 gear and a stock stalled 700r4. Stock 100K mile 305 long block out of an Express van that I stabbed a LT1 cam into, bolted an edelbrock base to it and the tri-y headers.
Big mouth was supposedly just a eddy intake that was port matched to their big tube runners. They charged 100$ more i believe for it making it not really worth it. Tpis always been overpriced imo. But its well proven that L98’s respond to intake manifold swaps. Tpis miniram works. Stealth ram works. And big mouth base and runner system will drop et at the track. 10-12 whp as shown in the thread i posted.
Again your typical bolt on L98 will gain 30 whp over stock. Good bit of money for that gain but it is what it is
Again your typical bolt on L98 will gain 30 whp over stock. Good bit of money for that gain but it is what it is
Funny thing is I've got an Edelbrock TPI base in the closet. AS&M runners too. A guy I barely know gave me a 52mm Holley throttlebody, it's there on the shelf too. Headers too, or two? Because there are two sets of them sitting here... I've had the calipers out and measured the Edelbrock base next to a stock base, and without porting the ports are physically the exact same sizes. Pretty sure the runners measure a bit larger, and at least in theory the length might be altered a hair. And well, big throttlebodies we all know don't do anything. I mean this stuff is already paid for, I didn't give as much as what it used to go for, but it's just really not worth it to me to bolt the parts on the car unless I'm doing more than just those parts. Even if I bolted on all the parts I have laying around, a TPI 350 isn't going to suddenly be a 12 second car. For someone who doesn't already have the stuff laying around, I say save your money. I got all this stuff from people that used it briefly and were disappointed. They sold the stuff to me dirt cheap to fund their Stealth Ram conversion or LS swaps.
#280
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
It IS besides the point because for one, you don't even know what gear I am in in terms of kPa, and two you didn't even ask me what size injectors I am running while seeing 56% Duty Cycle at only 5150-RPM. You know I am about ready to run a turbo again, so you should know what size injectors I am running at a minimum. As for the kPa showing 92-kPa, that is because I let off of the throttle just before that caption to show you where I was tuning, no reason to pull 6000-RPM on the street. Again if you want to see 100-kPa and 100-TPS% and 6000-RPM there is absolutely no problem...
- Rob
- Rob
I’ll bite tho. Show me the fuel curve from 4500 to 6000.
100% tps says you didnt let off
#281
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
- Rob
#283
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
I only did one ebl car years ago, never had to play with any parameters to fudge factor tps. That makes absolute no sense but whatever. Its irrelevant
as far as proving? You got alot of ***** telling me that when you have not done anything here
search my posts. Tpi intake cam heads build that did 272 whp. Surprisingly lower than expected. The lt1 i tuned i can get the dyno sheet at the shop but its not really turdgen related so never posted it. 355 whp manual trans. Same cam similar heads same dyno
fyi past experience is exactly why i say what i say lol thats how you draw conclusions
as far as proving? You got alot of ***** telling me that when you have not done anything here
search my posts. Tpi intake cam heads build that did 272 whp. Surprisingly lower than expected. The lt1 i tuned i can get the dyno sheet at the shop but its not really turdgen related so never posted it. 355 whp manual trans. Same cam similar heads same dyno
fyi past experience is exactly why i say what i say lol thats how you draw conclusions
#284
Supreme Member
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
First, the man asked if there's something on modifying the air box or installing a ram air system. I post where it is and then the actual link to the write up.
Second, you string quotes of mine together like I'm recommending and confirming everything in that "How To" section works. I am not.
My reference of "Just those mods and a good exhaust system will really wake up a TPI car" was direct toward the ram air, porting the plenum, adding an AFPR or learning how to do a tune. So, are you saying those mods won't do anything. If so then I'm going to have to invoke the following and break any and all correspondence with you.
Second, you string quotes of mine together like I'm recommending and confirming everything in that "How To" section works. I am not.
My reference of "Just those mods and a good exhaust system will really wake up a TPI car" was direct toward the ram air, porting the plenum, adding an AFPR or learning how to do a tune. So, are you saying those mods won't do anything. If so then I'm going to have to invoke the following and break any and all correspondence with you.
Last edited by BadSS; 08-10-2018 at 06:28 PM.
#285
Supreme Member
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Plus, you also have to fill me in on how he's devaluing the car If he gets a donor air box off eBay to cut up and keeps all his stock parts to put back on later.
#286
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New England
Posts: 2,406
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Car: 1988 IROC Z Convertible
Engine: 305 TPI (LB9)
Transmission: 700 R4
Axle/Gears: G80 GU2
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Guys.. the new Camaro 4 banger Turbo can do 10.9 1/4 mile..
Im done!
Im done!
#287
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Same question to you - are you saying ram air, porting the plenum, adding an AFPR or learning how to do a tune along with a good free flowing exhaust system won't do anything?
Plus, you also have to fill me in on how he's devaluing the car If he gets a donor air box off eBay to cut up and keeps all his stock parts to put back on later.
Plus, you also have to fill me in on how he's devaluing the car If he gets a donor air box off eBay to cut up and keeps all his stock parts to put back on later.
#288
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Originally Posted by BadSS
Plus, you also have to fill me in on how he's devaluing the car If he gets a donor air box off eBay to cut up and keeps all his stock parts to put back on later.
- Rob
#289
Supreme Member
iTrader: (58)
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
My reference of "Just those mods and a good exhaust system will really wake up a TPI car" was direct toward the ram air, porting the plenum, adding an AFPR or learning how to do a tune. So, are you saying those mods won't do anything. If so then I'm going to have to invoke the following and break any and all correspondence with you.
You'll devalue any mildly collectible car by doing those mods because they're only original once. You can't take something apart, and put it back together, without leaving some traces that you've done so. While those little details may not matter to you, a person with an eye for detail will probably pick up on them. If you show that plenum porting job to a finicky collector they're going to cringe and potentially lose their lunch. Go ahead and tell them it was good for a tenth of a second. It doesn't change that someone went in there and started monkeying around with things. Bust a bolt, crack some plastic, chip some paint, it's all going to happen if you work on stuff, and it's all going to hurt the value.
#290
Supreme Member
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
#291
Supreme Member
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
BadSS, don't take what I said about devaluing a car so personally. I write what I do to help you guys. Some of us demand perfection from our projects, and some of us have been around long enough to see the mods mentioned as either being made to make a quick buck for a vendor from an ignorant hobbyist, or a free mod intended to mask a problem, not correct one. Kind of like, the IAT pulls timing when a certain temperature is met, and this kills power. The amount of timing being pulled increases as IAT temps increase, and rather than go into the bin and fix it correctly, a free mod is all about throwing more air onto the engine somehow, or anyway, and "hope" it solves the problem by keeping the engine cool enough, long enough, to avoid the IAT problem before it's even started. IAT does this because of unleaded fuel, but what about when running E85 or race gas, which a lot of us do. You think a free mod will help? Yes, maybe and no, because it depends. Things get hot under the hood, especially in the summer, and like I said even running no hood at all isn't really helpful when a brutal sun is beating down on the engine. It's better to fix it in the bin and not have to worry about it, or at least raise the target well above ambient if you still desire some sort of IAT-SA reduction. Do you guys remember all the rage about Granatelli MAF sensors for the LSX? Do you guys know what they even did to give you that seat of the pants feeling when replacing the "stock" MAF sensor? Do you know why people stopped buying them...?
- Rob
- Rob
#292
Supreme Member
iTrader: (58)
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
If you don't understand the larger point of the thread, making claims that these things will really "wake up" a car, without any actual proof, you're just farting in the wind. When you come up with those killer dyno numbers or time slips for a ported plenum, fabricated ram air, and afpr, you know where to find me. Peace Wendy.
#293
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
If you don't understand the larger point of the thread, making claims that these things will really "wake up" a car, without any actual proof, you're just farting in the wind. When you come up with those killer dyno numbers or time slips for a ported plenum, fabricated ram air, and afpr, you know where to find me. Peace Wendy.
also gutted maf screen on a 270 whp head cam tpi car did nothing
#294
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
You asked if i thought tpi limits peak rpm to 4500
The answer is peak hp will fall in that 4200-4800 rpm
how is anything of what i said besides the point?
i can show you 6000 rpm on a stock enfine too... i hit near 6500 on my tpi when i accidentally threw the shifter into neutral instead of D. Engine will rev no problem but it aint making power up there I guarantee it
The answer is peak hp will fall in that 4200-4800 rpm
how is anything of what i said besides the point?
i can show you 6000 rpm on a stock enfine too... i hit near 6500 on my tpi when i accidentally threw the shifter into neutral instead of D. Engine will rev no problem but it aint making power up there I guarantee it
#295
Supreme Member
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Sure do, You're 850 miles away sitting behind your keyboard. If you lived closer, I'd invite you over and we could do some before and after mod times. I'll open that invitation up to anyone close enough to Jackson MS with a stock or near stock 350TPI to drop by for a day. All I'd ask is you buy the runner gaskets, AFPR, and ducting for the ram air box (I'll give you the parts list from Home Depot) and help out when needed - still not fully recovered from a recent surgery. If there's really no gain like Wendy indicates, then I'll reimbursement you for the parts. PM me if anyone is interested.
Last edited by BadSS; 08-10-2018 at 10:04 PM.
#296
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Originally Posted by BadSS
I don't disagree with a thing you said here. I worked on these cars when they were new and said earlier had very good results with rather inexpensive mods on a number of 350TPI cars. I promise you I know what works and what doesn't work and wish the hack was available back then.
Little did I know that my timing was being pulled because of a Coolant and IAT bias that RBob reminded me of this morning, and I would have not of even realized that had the temperature not reach what it did. It was pretty high. The average member, when experiencing that at a lower temperature, would have just said to themselves "damn, this TPI needs to go, I need more power and top end", but it was in the bin. The GM code is so damn wacky, this is why a lot of aftermarket systems just stripped the GM code down, and simply ran with it as its' own, while gradually adding their own features and such. Again this is not to say that TPI is where it's at, because it isn't. It's just nine out of ten times from years back, members abandoned TPI for reasons having to the with the stock code, unbeknownst to them...
- Rob
#297
Supreme Member
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Il
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Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
I know my 89 back in the day would lose over .6 in the quarter in back to back to back passes on the street when i had a fan switch fail and didn't catch it... i ugh mean unsanctioned timing events..
#298
Supreme Member
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Car: 1989 IROC-Z. Original owner
Engine: LB9. Dual Cats. Big Cam
Transmission: World Class T-5
Axle/Gears: BW 3.45
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
BadSS, don't take what I said about devaluing a car so personally. I write what I do to help you guys. Some of us demand perfection from our projects, and some of us have been around long enough to see the mods mentioned as either being made to make a quick buck for a vendor from an ignorant hobbyist, or a free mod intended to mask a problem, not correct one. Kind of like, the IAT pulls timing when a certain temperature is met, and this kills power. The amount of timing being pulled increases as IAT temps increase, and rather than go into the bin and fix it correctly, a free mod is all about throwing more air onto the engine somehow, or anyway, and "hope" it solves the problem by keeping the engine cool enough, long enough, to avoid the IAT problem before it's even started. IAT does this because of unleaded fuel, but what about when running E85 or race gas, which a lot of us do. You think a free mod will help? Yes, maybe and no, because it depends. Things get hot under the hood, especially in the summer, and like I said even running no hood at all isn't really helpful when a brutal sun is beating down on the engine. It's better to fix it in the bin and not have to worry about it, or at least raise the target well above ambient if you still desire some sort of IAT-SA reduction. Do you guys remember all the rage about Granatelli MAF sensors for the LSX? Do you guys know what they even did to give you that seat of the pants feeling when replacing the "stock" MAF sensor? Do you know why people stopped buying them...?
- Rob
- Rob
I don't disagree with a thing you said here. I worked on these cars when they were new and said earlier had very good results with rather inexpensive mods on a number of 350TPI cars. I promise you I know what works and what doesn't work and wish the hack was available back then.
Have either of you had the opportunity to read a "performance chip" of the day, like a Hypertech Stage 1 vs Hypertech Stage 2 vs the factory PROM? If so, I'd like your take.
#299
Supreme Member
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
why even waste your breathe arguing with some of these fools .. youve been doing this for a long time and know there is no power at 6000 rpm on a tpi setup .. mine is a great example , awesome down low but not much after 5000 rpm and thats with a big mouth intake and as&m runners .. facts are facts and just because its 2018 nothing has changed , lol ..
I have a 1987 Firebird I recently setup with a 10:1 355, LT4 Hotcam, Stock SD TPI system, LT1 injectors, tuned by me with my Autoprom, 1 3/4" primary shorty headers, dual 2.5" exhaust with a X-pipe, custom CAI, 4th gen cooling fans, and 170*F thermostat. The engine is backed to a TH400 with 2,800 rpm stall 9.5" converter and a 9-bolt limited slip 2.77 rear end. The car launches hard and the engine has ZERO difficulty pulling to the 5,800 rpm shift points. The car has run a best pass at full weight of 8.20 @ 85 mph in the 1/8th in 2,800 DA NO LESS with the stock intake base, stock runners and a plenum with the egr diffusers ported out.. The power in this car peaks at 5,200 and stays completely flat up until the ecm fuel kill at 5,800. From what I remember while tuning the car runs 2,500 rpm @ 75 mph on the highway, the owner is getting about 26 mpg with lean cruise enabled @ 16.5:1 air/fuel ratio and 52* of timing. This car on a conservative street tune made 280 RWHP through the TH400 with its loose converter on 91 octane at 12:1 air/fuel ratio and 32* total timing. I have since retuned the car to bring it up to about 13.2:1 air/fuel ratio and 34* total timing which it responded noticeably too. Even before the retune based on the previous track times and my track experience with cooler weather, in good weather this car would run 7.90s @ 88+ mph in good weather and that is good for a mid 12s 1/4 mile run.
Last edited by Fast355; 08-11-2018 at 11:11 AM.
#300
Re: TPI go fast tips and tricks?
Originally Posted by chazman
Have either of you had the opportunity to read a "performance chip" of the day, like a Hypertech Stage 1 vs Hypertech Stage 2 vs the factory PROM? If so, I'd like your take.
As for Ray Jr, I just caught your response from what Fast355 quoted. Here's a tip. In reference to your hero, any fool can slap a turbo onto an engine, or tune an engine, what matters is that the engine lives and can still be used as an example as viable proof. Where is it? As for your engine, well, lets just say I don't blame the setup. All the best...
- Rob