JohnFB

Hi, everyone.　
Based on advice I received from fellow thirdgen folks, I decided to have my T-top headliner professionally recovered. I also had the sun visors redone, but not the sail panels (which are still in very good condition).　

Overall, the workmanship was very nice. The material is smooth virtually everywhere, even in the corners (the difficulty of which scared me off from trying this myself).　
Before showing my point of concern (subject title), here are a few pictures of the basic work:
















Now the only thing that took me by surprise was the extra pieces of headliner material on the top inside corners.　


It is more obvious in some corners than others. This corner is probably the most obvious:　







This corner is the least obvious:　





Here are the other two corners:












When I talked to the professional upholsterer (who has decades of experience), he said that the factory originally covered these areas with what he called "tape" but that is no longer available, so they used the regular foam-backed headliner material.　


After doing a lot of research on thirdgen.org, I found a discussion that seems to confirm what the upholsterer said.　


For instance, TTOP350 seemed to know a lot about this, as he wrote:　


"The extra fabric on you see in the top inside corners of the headliner are factory and they cover up the cuts needed to make the material follow the odd contours."　


"Also, on the cuts around the curves for the ttops, the factory headliners used a colored material to lay over the back side of those curved areas that were cut short. It wasn't headliner material but strips of colored cloth ..."　


The only thing I couldn't find anywhere is a good picture of what these T-top inside corners looked like from the factory.　


Does anyone have a picture, so I can compare it to the pictures above? (Foolishly I didn't take pictures of my headliner before I took it to the upholsterer.)　


The one thing that probably makes the biggest difference is that the thick foam (exposed on the edge) is a different color (black) than the headliner itself (gray).　


Do the experts out there think that what I have is "close enough", or should I try to make it more "factory looking"?　


The simplest thing I could do (if it makes sense) would be to color the exposed foam so that it better matches the gray headliner. I might be able to color it with a marker, though it would take me time to find an acceptable color match.　


If anyone else has had their headliner professionally recovered, how were their corners done?　


Thanks for any advice,　
John　

Drew

iTrader: (58)

What the factory used was a cloth tape, basically the headliner material without thr foam backing. Sometimes you can cheat the cloth around the corners, others you take a fresh single edge razor blade and cut away the foam backing from a scrap of headliner cloth, and stick the patch over the blemish.

JohnFB

Drew, by "blemish", are you referring to the exposed foam edge?
In other words, I could take a scrap of the headliner cloth (the upholsterer gave me plenty of extra), cut most or all of the foam off, and try to cover the exposed foam edge with the thin remaining cloth. That might work, unless the material without foam is too hard to work with.
Or are you suggesting something else?


Thanks,
John

Mikos_89

Yes, the factory use the "tape" to cover up those corner edges. What I would do is gently pull up on those areas and remove the small pieces of headliner material. Get your finger nail or something stiff and hard to scrape off the foam backing from the gray fabric headliner material. Get some DAP Weldwood Contact Cement and smear it on to the back side of the gray fabric material with your fingers. Let it tack up a bit and then reapply the foam less fabric material back into those areas. Otherwise, they did a great job on recovering the T-top headliner. A few areas look to be a little too tight, but I've seen much worse.

JohnFB

Thanks, Mikos, for the tip.
I think I'll first try some experiments on the spare headliner the upholsterer gave me -- to see how easy I can cut off the foam and work with the remaining cloth.


Cheers,
John

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Yup, just use a fresh sharp razor blade to cut away as much of the foam backing as you can, then lightly glue the cloth over the ugly spot. Originally the 'patch' is nearly entirely on the back side of the corners. Most of the time, it's only visible at the very edges of the headliner in the corners.

Due to the compound curves involved, it's nearly impossible to bend and stretch the headliner material around the the inside corner and fold it over the back. It just about requires a pie cut relief to relieve the tension. Hence the tape.

Works pretty well, because 99% of people never even noticed the patch.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Good pic in this thread...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...ml#post6037585

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Here's what I mean about separating the foam from the cloth... If you get it close with a razor blade, you can peel the cloth free fairly easily.

JohnFB

Thanks, Drew, for sending those pictures. I had a good idea of what you guys were talking about, but that is good confirmation.


I'll start practicing with some spare headliner material.
I'll let you know how it goes.


Cheers,
John

JohnFB

I was away from home for a couple of weekends, but I finally got around to trimming back the foam backing on the
headliner corner patches as Drew and Mikos suggested (with a single-edge razor blade). After a couple of experiments
with some spare headliner material, I decided to cut off most but not quite all of the foam on the edges of the material.　
It seemed to me that preserving a thin layer of foam made it easier to work with the material, so that it would keep a
straight edge without curling up. As one can see in the pictures below, one can therefore see a black (foam color)
seam at the edge of the material, but it is now so thin that it looks very clean (hopefully "professional looking"). 　
After I cut back the foam, I glued down the edge of the material with the contact adhesive that Mikos recommended.

I will show photos of the four corners in the same order as in my first entry above, in case any one wants to compare
"before" and "after" the trimming of the foam. 　

Here is the rear corner on the passenger side:


Here is the front corner on the passenger side:



Here is the front corner on the driver side:　


Here is the rear corner on the driver side:


I'm now happy with the appearance. I thank everyone for their helpful advice on this!　

Cheers,　
John

LiquidBlue

LiquidBlue

LiquidBlue

Had a chance to look closer at this the other night, but it was dark. I see something in there that looks like it rises up a bit, but doesn't look like tape. heading over to the car today, so will take another look. Here is what I got, sorry about dark photo. Was the tape in all four corners or just one particular corner? It appears to me that your installer may have been correct (at least for a 1990)

LiquidBlue

Had a fabulous day with my baby. After seeing this in daylight, it definitely looks like something else other than headliner. The headliner tape make sense. Where do we get this tape?!!! (sorry for the white specs, recently waxed her and not cleaned up the dust)

JohnFB

Hi, LiquidBlue.

Thanks for posting those pictures -- they show the "tape" (thin cloth which is different from headliner) very well.
My installer said they don't make that thin cloth any more. He has been in the business for decades, so I suspect
he is correct about that.

Now I suppose you could try to make some tape yourself from strips of cloth. Drew (see above) showed how
one could cut the foam completely away from the headliner cloth, but that cloth might be a bit thin and too prone to curling
to match the original factory tape perfectly. (As mentioned above, I kept a thin layer of foam on the cloth to
make it easier to work with.)

I suppose you could talk to shops who do headliner work and find out if they know of a suitable replacement.
(Since my installer used the headliner as the patch without discussing it, I never asked around.)

I think all four corners probably had such tape (certainly my installer used it on all four corners). However,
depending on the exact alignment of the headliner to the T-top moldings, it might be more visible in some corners
than others (as shown in my pictures above).

Cheers,
John

LiquidBlue

Your installer did a fantastic job. How did you find him? Had he done 3rd gen t-tops in the past?

LiquidBlue

What areas are you thinking are too tight?

JohnFB

I searched various Camaro and Corvette forums (including this one). I was looking for someone who does interior work
in the NY/NJ area.

Multiple people seemed to be satisfied with Jay at "Back in Time" (Mount Holly, NJ).
His price (about $300 for everything including installation) seemed reasonable, so I went with him.
I don't have a lot of experience with other shops for comparison, but the workmanship seemed very good
overall.

He said back in the day, he used to do about three thirdgen headliners a week, so he has
a lot of experience!

scottmoyer

$300, including install, is not bad. A few years back, I paid about $180 for mine, but I dropped the headliner myself and delivered it to the upholstery shop. I then had to reinstall it when he finished. If I had to add in the R&R pricing, I'm sure it would be around the same $300.

JohnFB

My upholsterer also gave me the option of removing the headliner itself, which would have dropped the price to about $165. But I read that the headliner backing is kind of fragile, and then I would have been the one responsible for any damage. (I noticed a sign in his shop even saying that they are not responsible for damage due to the owners' removal/installation).
By paying $300, I ensured that they were responsible for the whole job. Plus, they apparently had a lot of experience with thirdgens.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

I removed it myself and fixed the damaged portions with fiberglass and resin. They always have cracks in them.