Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
#751
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
I'm lost in the threads..
What's the target crank HP for this build now, Steve?
I'm running a single 410lph in tank. I don't have e85 available locally so I'm sized for pump gas.
I ran braided ptfe fuel and return. It runs along the frame and then goes up the trans tunnel and into the fuel rails. Lines are sleeved with thermal barrier.
I gotta put some lighting in the race car trailer but I'm close to being ready to tow it up and beat on it at the track. I think it will pass trch.
-- Joe
What's the target crank HP for this build now, Steve?
I'm running a single 410lph in tank. I don't have e85 available locally so I'm sized for pump gas.
I ran braided ptfe fuel and return. It runs along the frame and then goes up the trans tunnel and into the fuel rails. Lines are sleeved with thermal barrier.
I gotta put some lighting in the race car trailer but I'm close to being ready to tow it up and beat on it at the track. I think it will pass trch.
-- Joe
#752
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Steve needs to burp his baby, she's been crying for years and needs a pat on the back. Just like throwing 600 horsepower at the stock ECM code, adding that much power and heat to a stock oriented fuel system was never going to work without revamping quite a few things. The check valve that came with the car was just enough to avoid vapor lock for two hundred horsepower, but adding triple the power and heat to an already restrictive check valve is, umm, well, it's going to build up.
Where's the tums lol...
- Rob
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2J60QsaV1s
I had over 25,000 miles daily driving stock fuel system and no issues.
Idk why some guys experience this weird hot fuel/hot pump problem unless its knockoff pumps?
#753
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
Not sure why he is having problems. I’ve run basically same type fuel system for years and several thousand miles and no issue.
I had over 25,000 miles daily driving stock fuel system and no issues.
Idk why some guys experience this weird hot fuel/hot pump problem unless its knockoff pumps?
I had over 25,000 miles daily driving stock fuel system and no issues.
Idk why some guys experience this weird hot fuel/hot pump problem unless its knockoff pumps?
- Rob
#754
TGO Supporter/Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: SALEM, NH
Posts: 11,786
Likes: 0
Received 94 Likes
on
79 Posts
Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, LT1
Transmission: TKX, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, 3.23
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
"Fuel lines (except steel braided lines) in the
flywheel/bellhousing area must be enclosed in a 16-inch length of
steel tubing, 1/8-inch-minimum wall thickness, securely mounted as
a protection against fuel-line rupture. Fuel lines may not be routed
in the driveshaft tunnel."
-- Joe
#755
TGO Supporter/Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: SALEM, NH
Posts: 11,786
Likes: 0
Received 94 Likes
on
79 Posts
Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, LT1
Transmission: TKX, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, 3.23
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
#756
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Panama City FL
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Yeah I don't know of any checkvalve in my fuel system at this point, other than the pumps. My configuration is two Aeromotive 340's (legit ones), one feeds the factory tank hard line. The other feeds one of the other hard lines that is the same size as the feed line (purge line? I don't remember). After exiting the tank they Y into a braided line I had made (again I don't remember the size off hand but it was whatever size was supposed to be sufficient for my combo). This goes through some fancy filter and directly to the fuel rail. Return line is the original feed hard line. Vented gas cap. Vented enough that a full tank will send fuel down the quarter actually.
Exhaust is dual 2.5 tips I would never try to cram this through 2.25. But I also have a cutout and running it wide open has no impact on the fueling issues. Factory heat deflector is in place. And the muffler is a straight through so it doesn't really build up heat like something baffled would.
I think it is partially the Florida heat.. these issues generally are on my June/July videos over the years.
Exhaust is dual 2.5 tips I would never try to cram this through 2.25. But I also have a cutout and running it wide open has no impact on the fueling issues. Factory heat deflector is in place. And the muffler is a straight through so it doesn't really build up heat like something baffled would.
I think it is partially the Florida heat.. these issues generally are on my June/July videos over the years.
#757
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
i was just browsing the aeromotive site and read this:
a pair of those guys are seriously moving some fuel. dang
13.) Q: I have an aftermarket top-hat/hanger assembly for multiple, stock-style in-tank pumps. I’d like to use several 340 Stealth Pumps with this hanger, will it work okay?
A: Using multiple 340 Stealth fuel pumps should practically be limited to 2-pump hanger assemblies. With a combined flow from just 2 pumps of 680 lph (over 1,000 lb/hr), at 43 PSI and 13.5 volts, there are few OEM fuel tanks with adequate baffled area to feed this much volume for anything more than short bursts of full engine power. WARNING: Fuel tanks with no, or an insufficiently sized baffled area to maintain fuel pickup, may experience dangerous high-load lean-out problems, especially when the tank is ½ full or lower.
Considering the wiring requirements for a single 340 Stealth pulp, installing multiple pumps on a single hanger will require serious, heavy duty electrical bulkheads, along with the same level of external wiring, relay(s) and fuses/breakers. Looking at the flow and current draw chart on page 2 of the 340 Stealth Pump instructions, you see that each pump is drawing 15 amps at 60 PSI and 13.5 Volts. Two pumps draw 30 amps, 3 pumps 45 amps. As pressures go higher, so goes current draw, with a peak of 19 amps per pump at 90 PSI pressure.
If the fuel flow requirement to adequately support the engine exceeds what 2-340 Stealth Pumps can provide, Aeromotive recommends the installation of a larger, single pump such as the Eliminator, or in extreme applications, the Pro-Series pump.
A: Using multiple 340 Stealth fuel pumps should practically be limited to 2-pump hanger assemblies. With a combined flow from just 2 pumps of 680 lph (over 1,000 lb/hr), at 43 PSI and 13.5 volts, there are few OEM fuel tanks with adequate baffled area to feed this much volume for anything more than short bursts of full engine power. WARNING: Fuel tanks with no, or an insufficiently sized baffled area to maintain fuel pickup, may experience dangerous high-load lean-out problems, especially when the tank is ½ full or lower.
Considering the wiring requirements for a single 340 Stealth pulp, installing multiple pumps on a single hanger will require serious, heavy duty electrical bulkheads, along with the same level of external wiring, relay(s) and fuses/breakers. Looking at the flow and current draw chart on page 2 of the 340 Stealth Pump instructions, you see that each pump is drawing 15 amps at 60 PSI and 13.5 Volts. Two pumps draw 30 amps, 3 pumps 45 amps. As pressures go higher, so goes current draw, with a peak of 19 amps per pump at 90 PSI pressure.
If the fuel flow requirement to adequately support the engine exceeds what 2-340 Stealth Pumps can provide, Aeromotive recommends the installation of a larger, single pump such as the Eliminator, or in extreme applications, the Pro-Series pump.
a pair of those guys are seriously moving some fuel. dang
#759
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Are you guys losing it...?
There are four lines coming from the intank assembly, one is the vent. The vent leads to a ball type check valve in which prevents air from coming bank into the fuel tank, but relieves vapor buildup when it builds up. None of you seen a stock intank assembly before? Lemme grab a pic of mine.
- Rob
There are four lines coming from the intank assembly, one is the vent. The vent leads to a ball type check valve in which prevents air from coming bank into the fuel tank, but relieves vapor buildup when it builds up. None of you seen a stock intank assembly before? Lemme grab a pic of mine.
- Rob
#761
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
lol aaah ok i know what you are talking about now. one of my 4th gens was missing that whole line/breather.
one of the cars i worked on in the past had a "bad fuel pump" that would allow the car to run up the road about a half mile and then it would sputter to a halt without restarting. it did that to me one day as i rolled into my driveway. when i got out of the car, i could hear the fuel in the tank bubbling like mad. i loosened the cap and it sounded like a tea kettle whistling for several seconds there was so much pressure in there. he took it back to the guy who put the pump in it, and supposedly replaced the "bad pump". just reminds my of this car's symptoms.
one of the cars i worked on in the past had a "bad fuel pump" that would allow the car to run up the road about a half mile and then it would sputter to a halt without restarting. it did that to me one day as i rolled into my driveway. when i got out of the car, i could hear the fuel in the tank bubbling like mad. i loosened the cap and it sounded like a tea kettle whistling for several seconds there was so much pressure in there. he took it back to the guy who put the pump in it, and supposedly replaced the "bad pump". just reminds my of this car's symptoms.
#762
TGO Supporter/Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: SALEM, NH
Posts: 11,786
Likes: 0
Received 94 Likes
on
79 Posts
Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, LT1
Transmission: TKX, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, 3.23
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Are you guys losing it...?
There are four lines coming from the intank assembly, one is the vent. The vent leads to a ball type check valve in which prevents air from coming bank into the fuel tank, but relieves vapor buildup when it builds up. None of you seen a stock intank assembly before? Lemme grab a pic of mine.
- Rob
There are four lines coming from the intank assembly, one is the vent. The vent leads to a ball type check valve in which prevents air from coming bank into the fuel tank, but relieves vapor buildup when it builds up. None of you seen a stock intank assembly before? Lemme grab a pic of mine.
- Rob
The feed and return connect to braided PTFE hose.
No check valve, charcoal canister, etc.
When people build cars I make general assumptions about stuff, and I assume they delete the emissions crap and run an open air vent.
-- Joe
#763
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Originally Posted by anesthes
When people build cars I make general assumptions about stuff, and I assume they delete the emissions crap and run an open air vent.
-- Joe
-- Joe
- Rob
#764
TGO Supporter/Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: SALEM, NH
Posts: 11,786
Likes: 0
Received 94 Likes
on
79 Posts
Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, LT1
Transmission: TKX, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, 3.23
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Nah, that's not me. I can't drive around smelling fumes, it's nauseating. Newer cars throw codes with an open air vent, heck my wife's car set a code because the guy at Wawa forgot to put the gas cap back on. I even cringe when I see guys running an open coolant reservoir line to the ground, it's so unnecessary. Either way, I think Steve is heating his fuel faster than he'd like to, or the vapor just can't find its' way out fast enough. Something is being overlooked somewhere...
- Rob
- Rob
50s and 60s muscle cars had vented gas gaps.
Anyhow. I don't know that he has that on his system, based on his description of how he plumbed it.
-- Joe
#765
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
You might be used to the smell Joe if that is the case. Other's will that is for sure. Just like those who smoke, they don't smell their clothes because they are used to the smell, but other people do, most definitely. I can tell if someone is a smoker or a dog owner a mile away lol. Can definitely tell if someone is running an open vent from driving behind them, that is for sure. I used to like the smell of fuel back in the day too, but now it makes me sick. But anyways, hopefully Steve sorts it out soon.
- Rob
- Rob
#766
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Panama City FL
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
I would much prefer a canister purge setup.. maybe the dominator can be programmed to do it some day.
I'm ordering a solid state relay today and hoping PWM pump control is the ticket. I really have high hopes for this but I'm also going to run new larger fuel lines as well. Injector time as well, these are NINE years old now holy cow. All of these fuel components will be mindful of the new E85 pump in town. A flex fuel sensor is also on the short list.
Just got the new transmission in the GT-R Friday so that car is hopefully fixed. I say hopefully because I just got back last night. I drove it from Atlanta to LaGrange but speed traps are over every hill in Georgia so I never once stretched it out through the gears. My 49 is at a shop getting the new front end installed so I have nothing but the Iroc to sort out for the time being. So right now I have time (for once) to focus on the Iroc. Should be on PWM fuel pump control by the end of the week!
I'm ordering a solid state relay today and hoping PWM pump control is the ticket. I really have high hopes for this but I'm also going to run new larger fuel lines as well. Injector time as well, these are NINE years old now holy cow. All of these fuel components will be mindful of the new E85 pump in town. A flex fuel sensor is also on the short list.
Just got the new transmission in the GT-R Friday so that car is hopefully fixed. I say hopefully because I just got back last night. I drove it from Atlanta to LaGrange but speed traps are over every hill in Georgia so I never once stretched it out through the gears. My 49 is at a shop getting the new front end installed so I have nothing but the Iroc to sort out for the time being. So right now I have time (for once) to focus on the Iroc. Should be on PWM fuel pump control by the end of the week!
#768
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: garage
Posts: 4,432
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Engine: 3xx ci tubo
Transmission: 4L60E & 4L80E
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
I would much prefer a canister purge setup.. maybe the dominator can be programmed to do it some day.
I'm ordering a solid state relay today and hoping PWM pump control is the ticket. I really have high hopes for this but I'm also going to run new larger fuel lines as well. Injector time as well, these are NINE years old now holy cow. All of these fuel components will be mindful of the new E85 pump in town. A flex fuel sensor is also on the short list.
Just got the new transmission in the GT-R Friday so that car is hopefully fixed. I say hopefully because I just got back last night. I drove it from Atlanta to LaGrange but speed traps are over every hill in Georgia so I never once stretched it out through the gears. My 49 is at a shop getting the new front end installed so I have nothing but the Iroc to sort out for the time being. So right now I have time (for once) to focus on the Iroc. Should be on PWM fuel pump control by the end of the week!
I'm ordering a solid state relay today and hoping PWM pump control is the ticket. I really have high hopes for this but I'm also going to run new larger fuel lines as well. Injector time as well, these are NINE years old now holy cow. All of these fuel components will be mindful of the new E85 pump in town. A flex fuel sensor is also on the short list.
Just got the new transmission in the GT-R Friday so that car is hopefully fixed. I say hopefully because I just got back last night. I drove it from Atlanta to LaGrange but speed traps are over every hill in Georgia so I never once stretched it out through the gears. My 49 is at a shop getting the new front end installed so I have nothing but the Iroc to sort out for the time being. So right now I have time (for once) to focus on the Iroc. Should be on PWM fuel pump control by the end of the week!
What is the lowest voltage you can PWM the Aeromotive at according to them? Or is a try it and see test?
#769
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Panama City FL
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
The Aermotive stand-alone PWM controller says to adjust it to a minimum of 8 volts loaded. The example is with an A1000 but I'm sure the 340 will be the same. There isn't a ton of information on the web on this subject so I will reach out to the Aeromotive tech department and confirm.
I've decided to run one pump PWM and have the second pump come via the standard relay at 3 psi. I don't see any advantage to running paired PWM and if I did my minimum fuel flow (based on an 8 volt minimum requirement) would be twice as much running them both on a single PWM circuit.
I've decided to run one pump PWM and have the second pump come via the standard relay at 3 psi. I don't see any advantage to running paired PWM and if I did my minimum fuel flow (based on an 8 volt minimum requirement) would be twice as much running them both on a single PWM circuit.
Last edited by ZZ3Astro; 07-02-2018 at 10:49 PM.
#772
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
i think i ran 1/0 for the battery cable in my car....
#773
TGO Supporter/Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: SALEM, NH
Posts: 11,786
Likes: 0
Received 94 Likes
on
79 Posts
Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, LT1
Transmission: TKX, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, 3.23
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Two pump would draw a max of 42 amps.
Automotive copper wire is rated at 85c. Doing an ampacity calculation would indicate that the mare minimum 85c copper wire would be 8 awg.
If the battery is in the front, and the cable length is around 15 feet, the voltage drop will b 5.58%.
Stepping up to 4awg wire reduces voltage drop to 2.21%
-- Joe
#775
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Max draw on the walbro 410lph is 21 amps @ 13.5 volts
Two pump would draw a max of 42 amps.
Automotive copper wire is rated at 85c. Doing an ampacity calculation would indicate that the mare minimum 85c copper wire would be 8 awg.
If the battery is in the front, and the cable length is around 15 feet, the voltage drop will b 5.58%.
Stepping up to 4awg wire reduces voltage drop to 2.21%
-- Joe
Two pump would draw a max of 42 amps.
Automotive copper wire is rated at 85c. Doing an ampacity calculation would indicate that the mare minimum 85c copper wire would be 8 awg.
If the battery is in the front, and the cable length is around 15 feet, the voltage drop will b 5.58%.
Stepping up to 4awg wire reduces voltage drop to 2.21%
-- Joe
I also believe 450 walbros have been tested to 15 amps at 58 psi. 16 at slightly higher
#776
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
i think this car just ran 12v to the rear using single 4ga. to a distribution block/stud. from there it goes out to relays for the fuel pumps and possibly other things. same function as a pair of 10ga. wires running side by side.
#781
TGO Supporter/Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: SALEM, NH
Posts: 11,786
Likes: 0
Received 94 Likes
on
79 Posts
Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, LT1
Transmission: TKX, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, 3.23
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
You arent doing a single wire feed. Both pumps get their own but suppose a single 4 would work then splice off from there but i wouldnt do it that way. Dual relays, secondary controlled on ecm or hobbs
I also believe 450 walbros have been tested to 15 amps at 58 psi. 16 at slightly higher
I also believe 450 walbros have been tested to 15 amps at 58 psi. 16 at slightly higher
That is if I needed two pumps. I don't.
I did the amperage and voltage drop calcs to show why someone might choose to run 4awg for dual pumps.
-- Joe
#782
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Panama City FL
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
I don't know what gauge because it's been a good while but I am not one to run smaller than recommended (usually go the opposite direction on wiring size). It's probably 10 though.. Separate wires to each pump, relays on rear right wheel well with large feed wiring going to power distribution board/fuse panel right next to it and the battery back there somewhere too. I'm not running into a current problem.
Swapped out the fuel gauge today with the replacement one.. works like a charm. Next major action items:
1> PWM conversion to pump 1 circuit
2> Build circuit to keep uninterrupted power to gauges/MFD for at least 10 seconds during key cycle/startup.
3> Order bigger NEW injectors, fuel lines and decide on fuel pump options. It turns out my 340's are Gen1 and do not play well with E85. Either replace them with 340 Gen2s or consider other configurations. Most likely just run two new 340s.
Swapped out the fuel gauge today with the replacement one.. works like a charm. Next major action items:
1> PWM conversion to pump 1 circuit
2> Build circuit to keep uninterrupted power to gauges/MFD for at least 10 seconds during key cycle/startup.
3> Order bigger NEW injectors, fuel lines and decide on fuel pump options. It turns out my 340's are Gen1 and do not play well with E85. Either replace them with 340 Gen2s or consider other configurations. Most likely just run two new 340s.
#783
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...ter-purge.html
This seems complicated in a way I hadn't anticipated. I am pretty sure you could do this though.
This seems complicated in a way I hadn't anticipated. I am pretty sure you could do this though.
#784
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Panama City FL
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Interesting info.. thanks. I just built a set of conditions to match most of those. I was able to set up a test output with the following conditions (5 is the limit but there is a secondary deactivation option that can be used to deactivate for very high coolant temperature as in this example).
150 second start delay once all conditions met:
CTS Above 176F and Below 238F (secondary deactivation)
IAC Below 80% (can be changed above/below etc as needed)
Speed Above 20 mph
RPM Above 1100
MAP Below 75 kpa (added to deal with boost)
So it definitely can be done!
150 second start delay once all conditions met:
CTS Above 176F and Below 238F (secondary deactivation)
IAC Below 80% (can be changed above/below etc as needed)
Speed Above 20 mph
RPM Above 1100
MAP Below 75 kpa (added to deal with boost)
So it definitely can be done!
#785
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Panama City FL
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Another day of effort gone to heck with the Iroc.. I spent a couple of hours working on wiring up the two-step button that the shop didn't, as well and doing some planning for mounting a delay off relay for the gauges. I was to the point of setting up the button activated rev-limiter and trying to get it to work. During one of the restarts my laptop suddenly gives a "USB port surge detected" and shuts down the USB ports. I reboot with the ECM unplugged, no problem. Plug in the Holley ECM, surge detected. I went inside and was able to charge my video camera and access it with no issues on the same laptop and ports. Car still runs at least. I guess next it is disconnect the battery from the Holley and see if it fixes the problem. Done for the night though.
I should have just spent the time washing the GTR and I could be out riding in it right about now. Frustrating, this car.
I should have just spent the time washing the GTR and I could be out riding in it right about now. Frustrating, this car.
#786
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Panama City FL
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Turns out the USB cable ($48) is bad. No one has even sat in the passenger side - not a chance the cable was damaged by anything. I'm going to ask the dealer to replace it under warranty.
Two-step working. It's meh... I don't see an antilag feature although you can set up other actions based on the input trigger, such as retarding the timing. I don't see a way to remove X sparks from Y spark events, random or otherwise. I've never found a two-step that works better than the MS6AL. So far the Dominator does a lot of backfiring but I'll keep working with the settings.
Given the setbacks and extreme heat this week, the PWM fuel setup is not finished as was planned.
I also ordered a delay-off relay which will be wired into the analog gauges' power source (and possibly the MFD). This will keep the gauges powered during restarts which as frequently required for various config changes on the Holley. Had hoped to get this installed this weekend as well but... guess it will be another time.
The only good news is I was able to use a spare USB cable to finish the ECM config for the two-step.
Two-step working. It's meh... I don't see an antilag feature although you can set up other actions based on the input trigger, such as retarding the timing. I don't see a way to remove X sparks from Y spark events, random or otherwise. I've never found a two-step that works better than the MS6AL. So far the Dominator does a lot of backfiring but I'll keep working with the settings.
Given the setbacks and extreme heat this week, the PWM fuel setup is not finished as was planned.
I also ordered a delay-off relay which will be wired into the analog gauges' power source (and possibly the MFD). This will keep the gauges powered during restarts which as frequently required for various config changes on the Holley. Had hoped to get this installed this weekend as well but... guess it will be another time.
The only good news is I was able to use a spare USB cable to finish the ECM config for the two-step.
#787
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Panama City FL
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
So I found the PERFECT gauge bezel for my setup. Problem is these people make gauges too and even though they are standard sizes (same as my particular gauges) they REFUSE to sell the bezel WITHOUT their gauges. So the question is can I sell the gauges on ebay for enough (approx. $50/ea) to bring the total cost down to around $300 for the bezel alone? Because I would have been willing to pay $300 for it alone. They are New Vintage USA (NVU). Or would I make more money making a youtube video showing my displeasure and smashing the gauges I remove to replace with my Holleys?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/n...t/model/camaro
The manufacturer told me selling the bezel alone would be like chevy selling a Camaro minus the body so I could put a mustang body on the chassis. I told them that sounds like a much better way to build a Mustang!
Oh well.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/n...t/model/camaro
The manufacturer told me selling the bezel alone would be like chevy selling a Camaro minus the body so I could put a mustang body on the chassis. I told them that sounds like a much better way to build a Mustang!
Oh well.
Last edited by ZZ3Astro; 07-09-2018 at 08:04 AM.
#789
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Panama City FL
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
That was my plan, but there is a lot involved to cut that panel out... get the screw holes centered properly, actually cutting the panel to the same shape as the original bezel, make clean holes for the gauges etc.. not to mention buy $40+ worth of hole saws, painting, figuring out indicator light positions etc. It would be at least a multi-hour job and probably go into several days to get it all perfected. My free time is so limited these days I automatically prefer buying something already made.
#790
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
You on Turbomustangs/the turbo forums? I think ri85gt used to run gaugeplates.com but I'm not sure if he's gone or not.
#791
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Panama City FL
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Haven't been to those forums in a while.. Looks like that site is gone. I think he only makes Mustang bezels now. Nice looking stuff though.
Finally drove the Iroc to a destination last night. It did very well in the cool night air, staying below 195 the whole time. I'm trying to remember where I've driven it since the gas station visit where it was sucking fumes. It took 2.3 gallons to fill up and I haven't driven much. Amazing how much it drinks when you're boosting!
Still haven't made the PWM circuit but I did think of another one I'm going to add. My gauges are LED lit so the headlight switch twisty analog dimmer doesn't work any more. I figure I can use a 0-20 volt input on the Holley to come from the analog dimmer, and set up a PWM output to the LEDs of the gauges. This way I can set up auto-dim with the headlights as well as variable dimmer level. Those gauges are WAY too bright at night for my very light sensitive eyes.
While driving last night I really learned to appreciate how nice the revised gauge layout will be. Driving around with 4 visible gauges on the dash is not sufficient. Can't wait!
Finally drove the Iroc to a destination last night. It did very well in the cool night air, staying below 195 the whole time. I'm trying to remember where I've driven it since the gas station visit where it was sucking fumes. It took 2.3 gallons to fill up and I haven't driven much. Amazing how much it drinks when you're boosting!
Still haven't made the PWM circuit but I did think of another one I'm going to add. My gauges are LED lit so the headlight switch twisty analog dimmer doesn't work any more. I figure I can use a 0-20 volt input on the Holley to come from the analog dimmer, and set up a PWM output to the LEDs of the gauges. This way I can set up auto-dim with the headlights as well as variable dimmer level. Those gauges are WAY too bright at night for my very light sensitive eyes.
While driving last night I really learned to appreciate how nice the revised gauge layout will be. Driving around with 4 visible gauges on the dash is not sufficient. Can't wait!
#792
Senior Member
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
OP said in his video, "...Im wondering what the h311 im doing...".
LOL!
-also, what did 9K buy again?
LOL!
-also, what did 9K buy again?
#793
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Panama City FL
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
9k... have to think about this for a minute lol! I think the breakdown was $6k in Holley EFI and related parts plus $3k from the shop. Part of that labor included wrapping the new downpipe, re-engineering the rear mounted battery cabling (adding circuit breaker, rear relay/fuse panel, rerouting main battery cable to starter) and making new front brake hardlines.
Some good news over here... my Jeep Rubicon finally sold yesterday. That vehicle was a real thorn in my side since the day I drove it home. Cost of ownership worked out to $1/mile before fuel but money well lost because now it can't cost me any more. Best of all, vehicle #4 in my signature now has funding. I just need to find one so I can fill out the information. Only thing I'll say is it will be something very old!
Some good news over here... my Jeep Rubicon finally sold yesterday. That vehicle was a real thorn in my side since the day I drove it home. Cost of ownership worked out to $1/mile before fuel but money well lost because now it can't cost me any more. Best of all, vehicle #4 in my signature now has funding. I just need to find one so I can fill out the information. Only thing I'll say is it will be something very old!
#796
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Panama City FL
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
86CamaroDan - Actually I've already turned down several nearby options due to various states of restoration. I found a couple of perfect options (perfect as in price + appearance + distance) but both had engines that were in need of reconditioning. I was actually going to buy something before I sold the Jeep, but realized I need about 10k more to get something that is already DONE... so the Jeep selling added 15k to my budget. Point is, I'm definitely not looking for a project. I want a turn the key and enjoy it car. Oh and this one is going to be 100% stock!
Anesthes - I love love LOVE those old Chevy's too. Model A's are the best option as far as spare parts and upgrades but I always seem to go towards the less often traveled paths. I always seem to pay for going that route... but anyway both of those cars are on my list of possibilities. It's just that I will be going with all original, though I would like to own a 5 window Chevy with a turbo V8 or better yet an injected 8-71 small block!
Anesthes - I love love LOVE those old Chevy's too. Model A's are the best option as far as spare parts and upgrades but I always seem to go towards the less often traveled paths. I always seem to pay for going that route... but anyway both of those cars are on my list of possibilities. It's just that I will be going with all original, though I would like to own a 5 window Chevy with a turbo V8 or better yet an injected 8-71 small block!
#797
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Panama City FL
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Today was great! I learned a whole lot about PWM on the Holley system, had a 100% successful PWM test driving the LED gauge backlighting as a dimmer off the TPS, and concluded with setting up a 0-20 volt input on the factory dimmer which in turn controlled the PWM circuit for a 1:1 dimming of the LED using the factory rotary dimmer! It also occurred to me that I could easily run separate outputs in specific gauges and set up a PWM table to light up a gauge based on something like AFR vs MAP. Instead of a dumb gauge LED that lights up at a specific value, the gauge would light up (or brighten for example) if the AFR went higher than 12:1 at 15 psi or 13:1 at 5 psi. It would also be fairly easy to replace the gauge's warning light or add in a separate light in the gauge. This would be useful also for a low oil pressure warning vs rpm. The possibilities are endless!
Also I received the New Vintage USA gauge cluster. Very disappointing that they forced me to buy the whole $580 rig just to get the bezel, but the piece is pretty nice. The gauges look decent as well. I removed the gauges and installed the Holley gauges without incident. They fit nicely without interference to each other or the Iroc dash. Man what a nice layout. All of the gauges are very visible, obstructed only slightly by the tilt steering lever for the bottom left gauge which will be my fuel level indicator.
Very pleased with the bezel overall, but the company needs to re-assess their approach to paying customers. Now I have to decide whether to try try and sell the gauges by mounting them in the faux carbon bezel or perhaps smash them on Youtube in protest of their business practices. I'd prefer to sell them! Picture isn't so clear but here is the new bezel minus the fuel gauge.
Also I received the New Vintage USA gauge cluster. Very disappointing that they forced me to buy the whole $580 rig just to get the bezel, but the piece is pretty nice. The gauges look decent as well. I removed the gauges and installed the Holley gauges without incident. They fit nicely without interference to each other or the Iroc dash. Man what a nice layout. All of the gauges are very visible, obstructed only slightly by the tilt steering lever for the bottom left gauge which will be my fuel level indicator.
Very pleased with the bezel overall, but the company needs to re-assess their approach to paying customers. Now I have to decide whether to try try and sell the gauges by mounting them in the faux carbon bezel or perhaps smash them on Youtube in protest of their business practices. I'd prefer to sell them! Picture isn't so clear but here is the new bezel minus the fuel gauge.
#798
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Panama City FL
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
5 Posts
Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Unboxing video is up... for those of you who might be interested in getting this product.
#799
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Flip the gauges or use em in another project. You have enough of them. You should have stuck it in a flat bed scanner then had someone water jet you one :rofl:
#800
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Steve, the steering wheel assembly is slotted, and is adjustable from left to right, so if there is too much gap on one side of the gauge panel like you stated in your video, just loosen, line up, and tighten. As far as the gauge assembly, I can't believe you spent that much on it. You could have easily of made your own. But either way they do look great.
- Rob
- Rob