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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
No. Toss the fabric, because the foam backing will have rotten away to dust. Very, Very, Very carefully; remove the headliner board from the car. It helps to remove the seat belt guides from the seats so the seat belts can swing around easier. Be careful removing the seat belt escutcheons so the clips don't break. The last piece you want to remove is the dome light. It helps to take the sail panels loose so the headliner doesn't hang up on them, then carefully lower the board down, slip the seat belts out of the slots, and fish the entire thing out the hatch.
Now if you aren't careful, the material will crease, or tear, if you rub it against anything it'll fall apart, etc. So treat it with the utmost respect to avoid damaging the board. Set it on a large flat surface, like a card table, something that will support the entire headliner board. Carefully peel away the old cloth, and you'll be left with the board with bits of rotted foam all over, some areas better than others.
Get yourself a mildly stiff brush, like a cheap HF chip brush with the bristles cut back to about an inch long or so. The idea is to make it stiffer, without turning it into an abrasive scrub brush. Use the brush to sweep away any loose remains of the foam, until you're left with the fiber board. A cornball, low suck vacuum can be used to clean the board, or just hold it on end and carefully shake the crud off.
Any areas that have been creased or torn, or are otherwise coming apart can be reinforced at this time. Tears can be glued with Cyanoacrylate (CA, aka superglue), or whatever glue you like. Weak spots, or creases, whatever can be reinforced by soaking with thin CA, or fiberglass resin. Really bad spots can be patched up or filled in with fiberglass cloth and resin, in a pinch you paper mache paper and glue to reinforce or replace bad spots. It's not too finicky. An old cereal box cut into pieces and glued in place can be used to fix a missing section.
When the board is clean, get yourself a couple yards of headliner cloth, and a can of 3M 08088 General Trim Adhesive. If you're picky, you might want to order the cloth so you're sure it'll match, or get enough to do the sunvisors and speaker covers. If you use any other spray glue than the 08088, and the new cloth falls the first 102* day, it's on you. The 08088 is tried and tested, it works.
Cut a section of your cloth with a few inches of overhang over the edges of the headliner board. Spray the board liberally with the 3M 08088, do the same with the foam backing of your cloth. Let it dry to tack per the instructions. Start at the center of the board, and center of your cloth, and press the cloth to the board working your way out.
On a T-top board, leave extra material around the T-top openings, you'll need to stretch and fold, cut reliefs, and carefully work the cloth around the corners. You'll want the cloth to overlap an inch or so if you have any gaps around the inside of the tops, you'll see headliner cloth instead of the back of your ghetto'd paper mache fiber board. You'll want the same overlap at the front across the windshield, and anywhere else the edge isn't covered by trim. It's up to you to decide if you want to overlap the edges that are covered for additional strength or to hide damage, just keep in mind that extra thickness under the trim can make it harder to fit the trim.
Trim away the dome light, and sunvisor openings with a single edged razor blade, and carefully reinstall in the car.
It's really not that hard, you just have to be careful working with the old board, especially while removing and reinstalling. The cloth will hide a multitude of sins. The foam backing will cover up a lot of ghetto repair.
I recently called an upholstery shop and asked how much to recover the headliner in the '82. I was told around $200-250, depending on what it needed. That included the visors. So I will be seeing the upholstery shop. No sense buying the ill-fitting ABS set when I can reuse my original board and have it recovered.
I recently called an upholstery shop and asked how much to recover the headliner in the '82. I was told around $200-250, depending on what it needed. That included the visors. So I will be seeing the upholstery shop. No sense buying the ill-fitting ABS set when I can reuse my original board and have it recovered.
Do you think it would be worth finding a decent core (if they exist) & save your original? Hate to see it fall short of your expectations & you can't go back.
If somebody can figure out how to restore them & make them look oem, I think they would have a decent following of business. Probably a dozen or more from this site, or maybe just this thread.....
I recently called an upholstery shop and asked how much to recover the headliner in the '82. I was told around $200-250, depending on what it needed. That included the visors. So I will be seeing the upholstery shop. No sense buying the ill-fitting ABS set when I can reuse my original board and have it recovered.
I recently called an upholstery shop and asked how much to recover the headliner in the '82. I was told around $200-250, depending on what it needed. That included the visors. So I will be seeing the upholstery shop. No sense buying the ill-fitting ABS set when I can reuse my original board and have it recovered.
Good Move Scott, you would pay more for the ABS Headliner, Fabric and visors
Personally, I'd leave the visors alone, even if they don't match perfectly. They are an item that seem to be impossible to reproduce. Reproduction visors don't have the same appearance and visors that have been recovered... well, always look like they were obviously recovered.
The visors might even be easier than the headliner... The only catch there is the stitching.
If you carefully cut and the stitching around the outside edge, the sunvisor opens up like a taco. In the middle instead of beef, cheese, and lettuce, you have a slab of Masonite or something similar. Instead of a tortilla, you've got thin cardboard covered with the same foam backed cloth as the headliner.
Clean the old decayed foam away from the cardboard tortilla, and you're ready to 3M 08088 your new material to the taco. Overlap the inside edge about an inch. Fold the now recovered taco over the Masonite plank, and stitch the open side. Tuck the excess rat fur at the top corners inside the taco, and slide the completed sunvisor back on the sunvisor supports. If you have a vanity mirror, and want to put it back on, carefully single edge razor blade an X across the holes in the cardboard/Masonite (one side only) and carefully press the mirror into the holes until it snaps in place.
The hardest part is matching the stitching. It's a bit of a pain with a modern sewing machine. Sit down on the couch and turn on The Cannonball Run, start stitching by hand, before you know it the race will be over, and you'll have finished sunvisors.
I will reuse my headliner board and I think it should be fine. If it needs any work, I'll do what I've seen here and use the fiberglass resin. An upholstery shop charges more to recover this than if I did it myself, but I'm too critical of my own work and will probably be better suited leaving it to the pros. I had my visors in the '87 redone years ago and they came out looking great. The '82 shouldn't be any different. The best part is, the older cars don't have labels on the visors!
Last edited by scottmoyer; 06-23-2018 at 04:46 PM.
This exchange is very timely from my perspective. The headliner on my 1987 Camaro is starting to droop in the back and has some of the same wrinkles that chazman showed.
After reading this thread and several others, I decided I will go to a professional car interior restoration shop and have the original backing recovered. If I find a good place, I should hopefully have something closer to factory fitment than the ABS kit.
While the condition of the original backing could be a concern, I suspect my backing is as good as anyone's, as the car has less than 5,000 miles, with no water leaks. (I'm not even sure if the car ever has seen rain!) Basically, I hope to emulate what Scott did with his 1987.
I do have several questions though:
1) People mention reinforcement of the backing with a fiberglass resin. Would it make sense to reinforce the whole backing, even if it currently has no damage -- to keep it strong for the future?
2) Would the professional shops add the fiberglass resin, or is this something I would have to do myself?
3) Can anyone recommend a good professional shop in the NY/NJ/CT area?
4) Like chazman, I want to preserve the warning labels on the visor. I'm skeptical of regluing the old cloth to new foam -- I doubt that will come out perfectly. Instead, I'm thinking of having new labels made. Has anyone had new labels made? Can they recommend a source? (I found some online, but I appreciate anyone's direct experience.)
5) For my 1987, I have two warning labels on the visor: the engine starting instructions (for fuel injected engine) and usage of the "shift" light (for manual transmission). If I get these labels made, would others also be interested in such labels? This could help me amortize the cost somewhat.
6) Unlike my headliner and visors, the covers for the speakers (sail panels) are perfect and show no sign of deterioration. I'm therefore thinking of leaving them as is, since they are the proper material for the speaker sound. I'm not worried about color matching, as they don't match the original headliner perfectly anyway!
Does anyone think keeping the old sail panel covers would be a mistake?
I've been dealing with a screaming fuel pump since the day I bought this car, almost 7 years ago. Today I removed the tank vent, since cleaning it made no difference. Once I loosened the clamp, I really had to give it a good tug to remove, since the vacuum on it was pretty significant and it hissed pretty loudly when I pulled it off. The screeching appears to have subsided.
I think I'm gonna drive it around like that for a while.
Me and my very good buddy coming home last night from cruise night. He has a super mint 33K mile, 5 speed, t-top '86 GT. He just got repro Gatorbacks for it and they look awesome!
That's me squeaking the tire as I rolled on the throttle. If I still had my 18 year old Yokohamas, this would have been a peg leg smoke show. The new Generals stick!
Put it on Youtube. Copy just the regular URL from your browser, make sure it's
Code:
http://youtube.com/blahblahblah
Most of the embed code on TGO doesn't work, but if you just paste the http link as basic code it usually works. Not httpS but http. Hope that helps.
Re-Visor Decals. Personally I find them tacky. Kind of like the idiotic Captain Obvious labels on the headlight switch and cigarette lighter on 82 Camaros. Has there ever been anyone that couldn't get an EFI thirdgen to start? Does anyone ever need to know about airbags? Do they need to be reminded every time they look at the visor or headliner? So for my money, the decals don't go back on.
However, I'm also a stickler for stickers, so I'd scan or carefully photo the original, and file them for future reference, or buy decals when they're available and keep them with the car's history file - just in case someday I want to put the finishing touch back on.
Re-sunvisor foam backing... When the sunvisors were new, the backing was just as thick as the headliner. The foam compresses over time, and then rots, so it's not uncommon for them to seem thinner than they should be.
Re-Fiberglass Resin... Be careful now, because Fiberglass Resin is heavy. For obvious reason you probably don't want to get too carried away with soaking the fiberboard backing with resin. It'll end up drooping under it's own weight. The areas you need to worry about are generally around the seat belts, near the domelight cutout on ttop cars, and around the sunvisor cutouts.
Of course for anyone still running an original headliner in good shape, the #1 thing is prevention... Don't touch it! The foam will usually hold it's shape even when it's decayed as long as you don't touch it.
I've been dealing with a screaming fuel pump since the day I bought this car, almost 7 years ago. Today I removed the tank vent, since cleaning it made no difference. Once I loosened the clamp, I really had to give it a good tug to remove, since the vacuum on it was pretty significant and it hissed pretty loudly when I pulled it off. The screeching appears to have subsided.
I think I'm gonna drive it around like that for a while.
BTW, how are you supposed know if the vent is operating normally? Mine blows out but doesn't suck in, if that makes any sense.
EDIT: Apparently you are supposed to be able to both blow out and suck in. Both.
scottmoyer, weren't you running your '87 without it and got a similar improvement?
I've put about 25-30 miles on the car with the defective gas tank vent removed. The chronic fuel pump screeching seems to be.......gone!
Furthermore, the car seems happier, more relaxed, less labored, if that makes sense. If this is the cure, I wish I would have done this 7 years ago instead of wasting my time with all that other crap..
The vent valve is a two way valve. It allows air in to the gas tank to displace the gas being sent to the engine. If too much pressure builds, it will allow the valve to vent the pressure. Normal venting is directed to the charcoal canister to absorb the fuel odor.
By removing the valve, you're allowing both air in and tank venting at the gas tank rather than through the canister. It does work, but not as designed. You will smell gas when you park the car.
My '87 didn't have any stickers on the sun visor that I remember. I still have the old fabric, but I don't recall stickers.
If your sail panels don't need to be replaced, then I wouldn't do them. The reason for this is the upholstery shop probably won't remove the foam over the speaker opening. The original design is to use the headliner material over the entire sail panel, but the foam backing is removed over the speaker opening and a heavier foam liner, with holes, is used to allow sound through. Since I have the Bose unit, I don't have speakers in the sail panels, so it's not an issue for me.
Lastly, use the fiberglass resin anywhere the headliner backer appears weak. You may need to sand it smooth. Any imperfections will show through. I wouldn't expect the upholstery shop to do this for you unless you want to pay them for it.
The vent valve is a two way valve. It allows air in to the gas tank to displace the gas being sent to the engine. If too much pressure builds, it will allow the valve to vent the pressure. Normal venting is directed to the charcoal canister to absorb the fuel odor.
By removing the valve, you're allowing both air in and tank venting at the gas tank rather than through the canister. It does work, but not as designed. You will smell gas when you park the car.
.
Scott, any further news on your '87 and this issue?
No. I have been busy and just got new tires on the car. The shop did a crappy job with the tire install, so I had to take them back and have it done correctly. Now that I can drive the car, I'm hoping to mess with the fuel issue more. BTW, I'm driving without the valve myself.
Okay, having read everyone's response on the headliner issue (especially Drew
and Scott's direct answers), I've come to a few conclusions:
I'll add fiberglass resin sparingly (only if needed), not everywhere.
I can talk to the professional shop about whether they have experience with that;
otherwise, I can do it myself.
It's interesting that Scott's 1987 doesn't have the Engine Starting Instructions that my
1987 does. (I wouldn't expect his to have the sticker about the "shift" light since his is an automatic.) I know his is an L98, and mine is the LB9, but I would think they would have
the same starting instructions. Maybe this is a Norwood versus Van Nuys thing?
(My car was built in Norwood.)
I think I'll get some reproductions made for my two stickers. Depending on my mood,
I'll either stick them on or keep them aside for the future (something Drew would apparently
approve of).
If it's not too much more money, I will have a few extra copies made, in case
anyone here wants one -- for a very modest price :-)
I'll leave the sail panels as original then, since they are in such great shape.
I appreciate everyone's input on this.
Thanks!
John
No. I have been busy and just got new tires on the car. The shop did a crappy job with the tire install, so I had to take them back and have it done correctly. Now that I can drive the car, I'm hoping to mess with the fuel issue more. BTW, I'm driving without the valve myself.
It's interesting that Scott's 1987 doesn't have the Engine Starting Instructions that my 1987 does. (I wouldn't expect his to have the sticker about the "shift" light since his is an automatic.) I know his is an L98, and mine is the LB9, but I would think they would have
the same starting instructions. Maybe this is a Norwood versus Van Nuys thing? (My car was built in Norwood.)
I can't speak to why Scott's doesn't have a visor decal. My 87 does, 5.7 auto, Norwood car.
Originally Posted by mantaguy
LOL,How does one get a crappy tire install?
Some tire mounting monkeys don't realize about lining up the markings on new tires with the wheel, or don't use the special coated wheel weights, or they use half a dozen 1oz weights on one side of the wheel and a 6oz weight on the other... One place balanced my wheels without the centering cone once, just clamped the wing nut down on the concave surface of the wheel. Can't remember if that was the same time/place that put a rear wheel on the front of the car... I hate taking my cars in for the jobs I can't do myself.
I think I'm going to have to replace the sending unit. I've poured lots of Techron and MMO down the tank and have barely gotten any improvement in the function of my fuel gauge. Also, might as well change the pump. I think it's tired from screeching in a high vacuum tank all of these years.
Which pump do you guys recommend? Of course, my "go to" is AC Delco, but I've heard they may not be as good as they used to be. Bosch? Walbro? How about the sending unit?
The guys didn't completely remove the tape residue from the previous weights. They put the new weights on top of the old tape. Guess what didn't stick very well and peeled right off? Also, they used the plastic cone without the rubber protector and the plastic left a ring around my center hub that has marred the finish. Lastly, they jacked the car incorrectly, even after I told them not to, mashed the fender mount and blew out my driver's side fender.
Like Drew, I hate paying people to do things I can't do myself. Their incompetence is overwhelming.
The guys didn't completely remove the tape residue from the previous weights. They put the new weights on top of the old tape. Guess what didn't stick very well and peeled right off? Also, they used the plastic cone without the rubber protector and the plastic left a ring around my center hub that has marred the finish. Lastly, they jacked the car incorrectly, even after I told them not to, mashed the fender mount and blew out my driver's side fender.
Like Drew, I hate paying people to do things I can't do myself. Their incompetence is overwhelming.
Scott: do you or a friend have a truck to bring the wheels to them to have balanced? Not that that will prevent your other wheel related issues ha. If I had a mounting and balancing machine I’d do my wheels myself but those are expensive....
I had the car on jack stands Saturday when I took the wheels back to have them fix the balancing. I refused to take the car back, so yes, i do have a truck and took only the wheels back.
The guys didn't completely remove the tape residue from the previous weights. They put the new weights on top of the old tape. Guess what didn't stick very well and peeled right off? Also, they used the plastic cone without the rubber protector and the plastic left a ring around my center hub that has marred the finish. Lastly, they jacked the car incorrectly, even after I told them not to, mashed the fender mount and blew out my driver's side fender.
Like Drew, I hate paying people to do things I can't do myself. Their incompetence is overwhelming.
Holy Crap!!I guess some people can screw up anything.
I remember when I changed my wheels.they put the rears on the front and the car wouldn't move off the lift, they found that right away.
I always supervise these kids and get in the bay with them. On my black '89, I explained my situation with the car and how upset I'd be if they scratched a wheel so the store manager closed down a bay and me and him did it all with hand tools and used rubber/plastic protectors on dismounting/mounting. That guy was awesome! You'd better believe I gave him an incredible review.
It'd sure be nice if you could take your car in for service and not have them screw up something. Last time I ran into it was over a year ago. I made an appointment to get an alignment, went in at the scheduled time, sat down in the waiting area with my book and started reading. Three pages later they called me to the counter. They tried to tell me that aligning the car would take more time and effort than usual. Then their story changed to saying they'd have to drill and open up the adjustment slots, etc to get it lined up right... Then they said they made a toe adjustment, and it should be better. To cap it all off, they charged me over $100. I drove the car a block or two, and while the steering wheel was now straight, it also pulled constantly to the left. Got home and called them up, and told them to refund my card. When I got under the car later, it was easy to see where they tried to adjust the tie rods with pliers. Smashed the hell out of them. That was the first job I'd farmed out in years, and all it did was reinforce my phobia of trusting anyone to work on my junk.
I think I'm going to have to replace the sending unit. I've poured lots of Techron and MMO down the tank and have barely gotten any improvement in the function of my fuel gauge. Also, might as well change the pump. I think it's tired from screeching in a high vacuum tank all of these years.
Which pump do you guys recommend? Of course, my "go to" is AC Delco, but I've heard they may not be as good as they used to be. Bosch? Walbro? How about the sending unit?
I'd go with AC Delco/Delphi, with Bosch as a close second. I've heard horror stories about Walbro pumps, but I've got 2 of them and they've been fine for years now.
I used the Delphi pump on mine and the Spectra sending unit.
Oh, I was watching them work on my car. I thought because they jacked the passenger side correctly after I told them how to do it, that the driver side would have been the same. I also didn't like how they remove the tire from the wheel, leave the wheel on the machine, put the new tire on top of the wheel and spin it around while they put the lubricant on the bead. If any dirt gets on the tire, they're scratching a wheel by using it as a table!
I'd go with AC Delco/Delphi, with Bosch as a close second. I've heard horror stories about Walbro pumps, but I've got 2 of them and they've been fine for years now.
You're cutting an access panel right?
Originally Posted by scottmoyer
I used the Delphi pump on mine and the Spectra sending unit.
Oh, I was watching them work on my car. I thought because they jacked the passenger side correctly after I told them how to do it, that the driver side would have been the same. I also didn't like how they remove the tire from the wheel, leave the wheel on the machine, put the new tire on top of the wheel and spin it around while they put the lubricant on the bead. If any dirt gets on the tire, they're scratching a wheel by using it as a table!
I'd go with AC Delco/Delphi, with Bosch as a close second.
My "spare*" is a Delco. I looked the Bosch, but the more I looked around all I found online were bad reviews.
*I say "spare" because it's theoretically for the Green Firebird. However, if either of the other cars decided to puke it's guts out, the "spare" would be used, seeing as how the Green Firebird probably won't move under it's own power until 1991... As in, when the Gregorian Calendar rolls over back to zero and counts back up one-thousand-nine-hundred-and-ninety one years.
When I was removing the defective tank vent, I noticed some crusty dirt on the fuel lines. Where does this dirt keep coming from? I've power washed and scrubbed the undercarriage of this car at least 10 times. The first couple times, I created a mud field on my driveway thick enough to plant a vegetable garden in. At least the dirt volume seems to be diminishing. Some pics for you viewing pleasure.
Is that from the rocker panels? or the panel behind left rear wheel that hides the gas inlet tube ? strange
From there, from everywhere! You think it's clean, and then more starts to appear.
This car had an unusually thick coat of Minnesota clay/dirt on the undercarriage. The first couple of times I power washed it, I created a prominent river of mud across my driveway. Many pounds worth. I couldn't even tell the car was undercoated at first.
I may have some pics at the beginning of the thread if Photosucksit hasn't stolen them.
The day it arrived. It's really hard to appreciate how dirty it is. It appears as a light dusting over the factory sealer, like something from the desert, but is in fact, a thick, stubborn, clay completely covering the black undercoating.
06-22-2018, 10:56 PM
Can't remember if that was the same time/place that put a rear wheel on the front of the car... I hate taking my cars in for the jobs I can't do myself. 
