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yea, i can see how that would be a pain/get expensive in a hurry on the older sbc. i have used a efi 24x system as well as a torquehead on an LT1 and they are pretty much plug and play. the torquehead is nice because it is adjustable outside of the engine. i had some issues with reluctor alignment with the behind timing cover setup due to variances in machining/crank/etc.
i was also pretty sure ati would do a balancer with reluctor on it.
Are you using valve cover mounted coil packs?
I have some EDIS coils and wires, which I could mount on the firewall directly behind the intake I think. Might interfere with my STB though.
yes, coils are mounted on the valvecovers. being a blower car, they work out pretty good up there. The LS pcm is a nice setup for a street car, and has plenty of features. in the future, im going to try to get the rear abs sensor wired up and running sometime to log wheel speed at the track.
i really like the crank sensor setup compared to the distibutor. when you consider all the slack in the timing chain, cam/dizzy gears, dizzy bushings, etc. its a big upgrade. actual timing should be pretty dead on with the crank sensor.
yes, coils are mounted on the valvecovers. being a blower car, they work out pretty good up there. The LS pcm is a nice setup for a street car, and has plenty of features. in the future, im going to try to get the rear abs sensor wired up and running sometime to log wheel speed at the track.
i really like the crank sensor setup compared to the distibutor. when you consider all the slack in the timing chain, cam/dizzy gears, dizzy bushings, etc. its a big upgrade. actual timing should be pretty dead on with the crank sensor.
That's what I was thinking, dead perfect timing.
EFI connection sells brackets, but fails to provide illustrations showing how they mount to the valve covers or what they look like..
I believe LS1 coils are all logic level, so they can be directly driven by the ECU (low current) and don't need an ignition module.
I have 4 ignition outputs, so I can run 8 coils in a wasted spark configuration.
I also have an EDIS box and some EDIS coils and plug wires, so I could also run that setup. That strictly only supports a 36-1 wheel though, whereas my Megasquirt will support any crank trigger.
I believe LS1 coils are all logic level, so they can be directly driven by the ECU (low current) and don't need an ignition module.
I have 4 ignition outputs, so I can run 8 coils in a wasted spark configuration.
-- Joe
Correct, the LS pcm has a pin for each coil, so thats how they are setup. i think there is 4 wires on each coil- 12v, gnd, ecm trigger wire, ecm gnd. (going off foggy memory) you may be able to do the wasted spark setup as well.
Intake is back on. I ran some DEI heat sleeve over the fuel lines, and installed the Milodon oil pump drive:
Unfortunately when I was swapping the fitting on the water pump I over tightened it, and cracked the pump. So I had to grind a V in it and weld it. It better not leak:
So I need to figure out how I want to deal with the crank trigger, and which coil packs I want to use. I have the EDIS coils and wires, but I don't like the fact that I can't do a spark based rev limit with EDIS.
I'm leaning towards VW coil packs. They make a wasted spark quad tower pack. Two of those would work, they have built in igniters so it's just power, ground, and 4 triggers.
I read right over the waste spark part. *rolls eyes* the VW COP coils have a very high rate of failure (To the point where the EPA mandated a recall because it was killing cats)
I read right over the waste spark part. *rolls eyes* the VW COP coils have a very high rate of failure (To the point where the EPA mandated a recall because it was killing cats)
I over tightened the heater core fitting on the water pump and split the pump. I welded it, but being cast iron the weld failed.
I ordered an aluminum pump last night.
Right now I'm working on my crank trigger. I think I'm gonna weld the reluctor to the crank pulley about 1/4-3/8" away from the balancer. Originally I was going to weld the reluctor to the balancer, but only 1/8" tooth depth/height would be available, and I'm fairly certain that a minimum of .200" is required for the sensor to read.
How did you come up with that tooth? I thought it was 8 teeth before the gap on a 36-1?
Nope, should be 4 teeth in between:
I'm using an EDIS ignition box because my coils don't have built in ignitors, but if you were to use LS1/LS2 coils with built in ignitors, you would wire the SPARK A, B, C, D output directly to the coil pairs. In that case, you could mount the trigger on any tooth, and simply enter the offset in tunerstudio.
With the EDIS box, I've only got +/- 30 degrees correction available, so it should be to spec.
EDIT: You have a vortech block right? So you already have a crank sensor ? If I was you I'd already be running DIS.
I'm using an EDIS ignition box because my coils don't have built in ignitors, but if you were to use LS1/LS2 coils with built in ignitors, you would wire the SPARK A, B, C, D output directly to the coil pairs. In that case, you could mount the trigger on any tooth, and simply enter the offset in tunerstudio.
With the EDIS box, I've only got +/- 30 degrees correction available, so it should be to spec.
EDIT: You have a vortech block right? So you already have a crank sensor ? If I was you I'd already be running DIS.
-- Joe
Aah intresting. Block is vortech, but i wasnt aware of it untill after i bought the roller cam retro fit kit. If i change cams in the future ill run the cam retainer plate and a crank sensor. I was kicking myself in the @ss for not taking it apart first then ordering parts. (GM put a flat tappet cam in a roller block)Id have to buy all the stuff, but i have a spare block sitting in the back yard i can scavenge stuff off of. Thats a ways off though (unless another ICM ***** out/acts up on me anyway) It is on the bucket list to eventually get to though. I might switch to MS3/COP/Crank trigger all at once though
Last edited by 86CamaroDan; 03-27-2018 at 09:12 AM.
Aah intresting. Block is vortech, but i wasnt aware of it untill after i bought the roller cam retro fit kit. If i change cams in the future ill run the cam retainer plate and a crank sensor. I was kicking myself in the @ss for not taking it apart first then ordering parts. (GM put a flat tappet cam in a roller block)Id have to buy all the stuff, but i have a spare block sitting in the back yard i can scavenge stuff off of. Thats a ways off though (unless another ICM ***** out/acts up on me anyway) It is on the bucket list to eventually get to though. I might switch to MS3/COP/Crank trigger all at once though
The MS3 would be fantastic, I've considered re-purposing my MS as a transmission controller and switching to MS3 so I can do full sequential. I could then fix the uneven air distribution of the miniram.
So then I finished up the crank trigger. Actually fabricating parts is what makes this hobby interesting. If it was jut a matter of buying and bolting on stuff, I'd probably get bored more often.
So first I stole Steve's idea of using the plasma cutter and a 'jig' to make a perfect circle:
Once that was done, I was concerned that I wanted to make sure the reluctor had absolutely NO runout, so I clamped it to a hub-centric wheel and drilled 3 holes to bolt them together. This ensured that the teeth were perfectly aligned on both wheels, and essentially made another 'jig' to allow me to weld it to the crank pulley perfectly centered.
So that's finished. Hopefully I'll have time today to bolt it up.
So to recap - the reason I did this was because I didn't want to sandwich a reluctor between the crank pulley and balancer, which would screw up belt alignment. Also, the reluctor was hub centric on the crank pulley but didn't have a hub itself, so it relied on the 3 bolts to center it. Lastly, the 8 1/4" reluctor only allowed 1/8" tooth depth that close to the balancer face (8"), so I thought maybe it would have issues with the sensor picking up the teeth.
Looks good. I wish i didnt have a aluminum under drive pulley otherwise id be copying you.
Yeah that is a no-go for sure, but since you have a vortec block you can run the 24x reluctor and timing cover without issue. I'd have happily done that if I had a vortech block.
Although, I think the next build I'm gonna use an LT1. I have a few of them in the shop. They take the same rotating assembly, but have cam/crank sensors, a good intake, etc.
Cleaned up a few things last night. I wrapped my trans lines in some DEI heat sleeve. Still kinda close to the headers. These headers are a little too high (too much ground clearance, if you could believe it), and really hug the trans. Can't really find an ideal way to route the lines.
Lookin good! Ive heard that wrapping anything with heat will keep heat out for a bit but as everything gets hot eventually it will heat up and then lock the heat in. I see you have no choice so I would agree with you doing it. But maybe developing a heat shield that clamps to the header would be a good idea. Some scrap thin aluminum, a pair of tin snips and a couple of worm hose clamps could be all you need.
I had issues with starter heat soak with a header that was close on a 521 BBF, I used one of those summit reflective starter blankets that wrap around with velcro. It actually made the problem worse after it warmed up (after some run time).
This car is terrible on the street. Basically, any time I'm giving it throttle it holds around 2800rpm and is loud AF. If I let off it will grab the next gear and then cruise again around 2800 (3k stall converter so I guess that's normal?).
If I try reving it past 3,000 RPM the tires just break loose and the BOV goes crazy.
It changed lanes on me without asking on a 30mph road.
It's way to freaking loud. At idle it sounds great. Under throttle its louder than my neighbors street glide with baffles removed.
are you sure you got the right bov spring in there? It needs a light spring in there (My tial uses a "2 psi" spring)
I noticed when i did my cam the noise volume/output was pretty significantly louder than the previous cam. Not sure if its the nature of the cam swap or just this particular cam. My room mate can literally hear me leaving the stop sign 3 streets away. lol
are you sure you got the right bov spring in there? It needs a light spring in there (My tial uses a "2 psi" spring)
I noticed when i did my cam the noise volume/output was pretty significantly louder than the previous cam. Not sure if its the nature of the cam swap or just this particular cam. My room mate can literally hear me leaving the stop sign 3 streets away. lol
I can adjust the bov, I'm more concerned with the exhaust and blower whine. It's Soo damn loud.
The trans though.. I looked at the paperwork, and it's a 2600 stall. It basically revs under throttle to 2800 or so. It will move off idle, but if you give it any throttle it slips wicked. The tires break lose after 3k.
I need to get an alignment Friday, and the other issue is my edis8 module is going into limp mode at idle
Probably because it doesn't support the multispark mode. (Found out afterwards not all modules support it). Hopefully today I'll resolve that, and work on my ae a little cuz I get some lean pops on heavy throttle transitions.
I'm regretting the automatic though.. I almost wonder if a e trans with a much lower stall converter would be more street able..
I don't know how the 9 second guys drive their stuff on the street..
This car is terrible on the street. Basically, any time I'm giving it throttle it holds around 2800rpm and is loud AF. If I let off it will grab the next gear and then cruise again around 2800 (3k stall converter so I guess that's normal?).
If I try reving it past 3,000 RPM the tires just break loose and the BOV goes crazy.
It changed lanes on me without asking on a 30mph road.
It's way to freaking loud. At idle it sounds great. Under throttle its louder than my neighbors street glide with baffles removed.
wtf.
-- Joe
are you running an actual bov or a bypass valve? it should be open at idle and pretty much closed under throttle.
what exhaust is on it?
I'm regretting the automatic though.. I almost wonder if a e trans with a much lower stall converter would be more street able..
I don't know how the 9 second guys drive their stuff on the street..
-- Joe
You may be used to driving a car with overdrive/lockup converter. a th350 will drive like you mention. you could put a tighter converter in it, but what you have now would probably rip with sticky tires at the track.
are you running an actual bov or a bypass valve? it should be open at idle and pretty much closed under throttle.
what exhaust is on it?
Tial or whatever it's called BOV. It's open off throttle. I gotta log and see what MAP was doing, I think when the tires broke loose I backed off the throttle and it made vac and pulled the valve open.
Hooker Aerochamber. So I have long tube headers that go into a flowmaster merge right behind the tail shaft of the trans into a 3" catback.
A LOT of the noise is actually the ticking/tinging/popping inside the headers. It echos against the road. I put it up on the lift thinking there was an exhaust leak, but it's just resonating sounds I guess.
Originally Posted by DIGGLER
You may be used to driving a car with overdrive/lockup converter. a th350 will drive like you mention. you could put a tighter converter in it, but what you have now would probably rip with sticky tires at the track.
As far as 'hot rods' go, I've only ever built manual trans cars. I decided to do the auto in this because I want to use it more as a track car.
Some background, I talked to Mike @ Freakshow yesterday. He said the converter is a 2400 stall, 2600 flash rated at 400hp. He said on my combo it's gonna flash higher. It's a 9.5" converter with anti-balloon plate.
I don't know if the modulator is set up properly on the TH350. I feel like I had to back off the throttle to get it to shift each time. I guess I need to get some education on how those work.
My ultimate plan next year is to put an e-trans in it, and control that with the Megasquirt. I could lose the stupid rathet shifter and program it so the WOT shift points are track friendly. But for now, I need to live with what I have because it's a brand new TH350 with alto reds and all that crap, new converter, etc and I need to actually put some miles on the car.
I'm kinda at a point where I don't know what is "next". I have some suspicions on what I think the combo makes in terms of horsepower, and I think it might be faster than the car can tech for (11.49). I'm really not that interested in cage and all the other nonsense to make it 10.00 legal.
To re-cap - it's a 412" SBC, afr 210 heads, 276* cam, miniram, and T-trim blower spinning 50,000 RPM (80lbs/min or 1200 cfm).
Should be north of 600hp, probably significantly I'd think ?
Welcome to the blower world!!! I had the same issues with my exhaust and BOV with my torqstorm centri. Whine is what it is but BOV street sweeper noise drove me BONKERS! I ran a 10-12" spring so It was open at idle but closed unless I was giving it good throttle to help with BOV noise. It also helped build boost alittle quicker. Tial recommends 1-2" spring but its not "necessary" as Blowers originally didnt even come with BOVs and they dont work the same as a turbo does.
Also the exhaust got to me as well. The boost exhaust from the supercharger required me to step down from a 4" catback to a 3" catback. Then I had to swap to a large non flow hindering muffler that would help with noise. I removed the smaller chambered summit muffler (summit catback) and went with a larger dynomax ultra flow SS which quieted it down but also doesnt restrict flow at all. I now run a 13" straight through perforated core muffler in the same location as you with my new turbo setup. Of course the turbo already quiets the exhaust but I can hear the dang lifters now thats how quiet. Also BOV noise is a thing of the past with the turbo, and the exhaust is quiet too. The issue with superchargers is that you CAN'T have a restrictive exhaust as it will hurt boost more than a turbo. As we all know freeflowing is loud lol, so you gotta get creative with noise suppression. It think your added muffler will help but idk how much. The hooker aerochamber is a good flowing straight through perf core muffler but idk what the length of the case is? Might want to look into stepping it up to a bigger/longer case muffler to help it absorb more noise.
My original was LT 1 7/8" primary to 3" collector headers, 3" ypipe to 4" merge which necked down to 3" catback. Idle it was quiet but on the throttle it was too much, I had to crank the tunes just to hear them. Now its much much better and I can get on it and attract no attention
Good luck!
Also on the drain. Steel pans are no fun to tap... it would be better to remove, drill and weld a steel fitting. What is your timing cover? Might be a better location and easier to remove/mod and put back? In the LS world all our covers are aluminum so drilling and tapping is easy.
Last edited by customblackbird; 04-25-2018 at 09:37 AM.
Welcome to the blower world!!! I had the same issues with my exhaust and BOV with my torqstorm centri. Whine is what it is but BOV street sweeper noise drove me BONKERS! I ran a 10-12" spring so It was open at idle but closed unless I was giving it good throttle to help with BOV noise. It also helped build boost alittle quicker. Tial recommends 1-2" spring but its not "necessary" as Blowers originally didnt even come with BOVs and they dont work the same as a turbo does.
Also the exhaust got to me as well. The boost exhaust from the supercharger required me to step down from a 4" catback to a 3" catback. Then I had to swap to a large non flow hindering muffler that would help with noise. I removed the smaller chambered summit muffler (summit catback) and went with a larger dynomax ultra flow SS which quieted it down but also doesnt restrict flow at all. I now run a 13" straight through perforated core muffler in the same location as you with my new turbo setup. Of course the turbo already quiets the exhaust but I can hear the dang lifters now thats how quiet. Also BOV noise is a thing of the past with the turbo, and the exhaust is quiet too. The issue with superchargers is that you CAN'T have a restrictive exhaust as it will hurt boost more than a turbo. As we all know freeflowing is loud lol, so you gotta get creative with noise suppression. It think your added muffler will help but idk how much. The hooker aerochamber is a good flowing straight through perf core muffler but idk what the length of the case is? Might want to look into stepping it up to a bigger/longer case muffler to help it absorb more noise.
My original was LT 1 7/8" primary to 3" collector headers, 3" ypipe to 4" merge which necked down to 3" catback. Idle it was quiet but on the throttle it was too much, I had to crank the tunes just to hear them. Now its much much better and I can get on it and attract no attention
Good luck!
Also on the drain. Steel pans are no fun to tap... it would be better to remove, drill and weld a steel fitting. What is your timing cover? Might be a better location and easier to remove/mod and put back? In the LS world all our covers are aluminum so drilling and tapping is easy.
Did you sell the superchagrer setup ?
Soo.. I couldn't get to the fuel pump plate with the -10 hose. The bend required would have kinked it.
So I tapped the pan in the spot vortech recommends for LT1 applications. The fitting stops about 1/4" away from the front crank counterweight, so hopefully it will be fine.
I think the -6 drain I was running before was causing oil to back up..
I bought 4 new tires. Now I'm on the fence about wheels. I have a set of 4th gen wheels that I kinda like. I'm running a 4th gen rear end so I'm tied to the 6.8" BS in the rear. I kinda don't like the idea of using the spacers in the front. I've just seen pictures of too many sets that cracked and split..
I can't seem to find any wheels that will work on all 4 corners though.
These are just street tires.. I might get some drag radials or slicks for the track.
And on another note, someone offered me a '92 Corvette, 6 spd, 3.45 dana44 car yesterday. Thinking about adding it to the fleet.
No, I still got it. Sitting in a box at the moment. I agree that the -6 was prob the issue.
What are the tire brand and size? They look alot like my sumimoto HTRZ IIs on the tread pattern.
I run the 4th gen rims (c6 replicas 18x9.5 on all 4 corners), front spacer is about 1"-1.25" and just barely clears my BAER hub wheel studs. No problems and the roads are crap here and I drive it like I stole it.
No, I still got it. Sitting in a box at the moment. I agree that the -6 was prob the issue.
What are the tire brand and size? They look alot like my sumimoto HTRZ IIs on the tread pattern.
I run the 4th gen rims (c6 replicas 18x9.5 on all 4 corners), front spacer is about 1"-1.25" and just barely clears my BAER hub wheel studs. No problems and the roads are crap here and I drive it like I stole it.
Riken raptor ZR's.. 245/50/16. Just cheap tires with a 300 treadwear, so hopefully won't be too hard. I have some goodyear eagles on the car now with a 500 treadwear and they are hard as a rock (mind you, they are quite old now, they were on my 4th gen previously).
Which reminds me, I should list those wheels and tires for sale here.
Yeah I've got the 2" adapters on the front (lug centric). I just worry about safety. I'd love to buy a set of rims with a 6.8" rear BS and 4.5" front BS.
Have some '96 formula rims, 16x8 which I'll be using otherwise. On the fence about sanding and painting them flat black.
what is that long brass piece screwed into the blower? is that an npt adapter or some sort of screen/filter?
Just a nipple. There isn't enough room between. The casting and the bracket to fit a -10 nut, so a 3"npt nipple (3/8) to get it under the mount plate.
Vortech uses 1/2" hose Barb's stock, but I wanted to be able to take.it on and off easily.
Soooooo. The magnaflow takes all the bite out of the exhaust, but the blower is loud AF. The high pitch screech gave me a headache earlier I'm the shop lol.
I'm replacing the roof on.the race car trailer today . Public service announcement: if you get 3 feet of snow, shovel your trailer off...
Thanks. Having a little problem with the steering. I put new tires on it, and it wanders from right to left going down the road. I have a ton of slop in my steering box, so I don't know if it's the box or what. Alignment was good. 0.00* of toe, good caster + camber.
03-14-2018, 06:50 AM
)Id have to buy all the stuff, but i have a spare block sitting in the back yard i can scavenge stuff off of. Thats a ways off though (unless another ICM ***** out/acts up on me anyway) It is on the bucket list to eventually get to though. I might switch to MS3/COP/Crank trigger all at once though 
