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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
Thanks!! And 100% right you are, when you see the one, pull the trigger. Negotiation was done in a little over 90 minutes including a good going over and test drive for me. It's not perfect, but waiting for perfect was going to cost a lot more time and coin.
Thanks!! And 100% right you are, when you see the one, pull the trigger. Negotiation was done in a little over 90 minutes including a good going over and test drive for me. It's not perfect, but waiting for perfect was going to cost a lot more time and coin.
hey guys, if given a choice between any year iroc and a z28. Which would you choose and why? Both would be a project in the making. Pretty much a shell
If you want to build a third gen from just a shell and heavily mod it out, why not grab a base 86/87 Camaro for cheap and build it out? I think if you find a nice IROC or Z28 that’s all original and well kept it’s a shame to mod it into something else since they aren’t ever going to make these cars again. You can use any Thirdgen as a shell and you could score them for pretty cheap.. just look at the last COTM:
I think if you find an IROC or Z that is original and in good shape with a leaky, tired 200k motor and wonky suspension then, go Resto-Mod.. but maybe keep the factory looks..
This is just my opinion, but the market also responds less well to the more “unique” restorations.
With anything though, life is short, do what makes you happy..
Most people wouldn’t have re-painted my car if they saw the original paint.. I realized I would be happier with 100% flawless paint and I knew it would be as good (and it’s definitely better) than the factory job. The painter just painted a car worth $500k so I knew he was the guy. That was my decision and every day I see my IROC and it looks like a brand new car I’m glad for that decision.
hey guys, if given a choice between any year iroc and a z28. Which would you choose and why? Both would be a project in the making. Pretty much a shell
Lot of factors in play. For me, the ultimate was a 1987 as I could get a 5.7L engine and in my region not be subject to emission testing every two years (which starts for 1988 model year).
I read here that the last 2-3 years of 3rd gen production had the best chassis.
Certain models are better performance/collectibility. I think you need to ask yourself what you like? I started out looking for an 83/84 5 speed HO car. I just love these early variants. They're are out there but in original shape and well cared for they are becoming more scarce.
Last edited by Bow_Tied; 03-11-2018 at 04:18 PM.
Reason: splelling
hey guys, if given a choice between any year iroc and a z28. Which would you choose and why? Both would be a project in the making. Pretty much a shell
Probably ought to start a new thread on one of the other subforums. This is History/Originality. If the plan is a project, built from a shell, it wouldn't be historic or original.
Probably ought to start a new thread on one of the other subforums. This is History/Originality. If the plan is a project, built from a shell, it wouldn't be historic or original.
Once again Drew nails it.. I think this needs to be a whole new thread..
I am a fan of 87-89 IROCs..
-T-Top with 5 Speed TPI
-T-Top with 5.7L TPI
-Vert with 5 speed TPI
-Vert with Auto TPI
-1LE
I do like the 1990 IROCs except not such a fan of the yellow gauges and Airbag Wheel.. I can appreciate them and I do think they had great leather seats..
I love the 87 leather seats and the 88 Leather/Cloth combo seats..
I love the 80s steering wheels.
I think the 91/92 Z28s are super cool and used to want to put those ground effects on my 87, but I’m partial to the IROCs from the 80s..
All IROCs turn my head, but I tend to search for 87-89 mostly..
Last edited by 88IROCvertZ; 03-11-2018 at 11:21 PM.
Once again Drew nails it.. I think this needs to be a whole new thread..
I am a fan of 87-89 IROCs..
-T-Top with 5 Speed TPI
-T-Top with 5.7L TPI
-Vert with 5 speed TPI
-Vert with Auto TPI
-1LE
I do like the 1990 IROCs except not such a fan of the yellow gauges and Airbag Wheel.. I can appreciate them and I do think they had great leather seats..
I love the 87 leather seats and the 88 Leather/Cloth combo seats..
I love the 80s steering wheels.
I think the 91/92 Z28s are super cool and used to want to put those ground effects on my 87, but I’m partial to the IROCs from the 80s..
All IROCs turn my head, but I tend to search for 87-89 mostly..
how can you tell if a camaro is in fact a IROC-Z. I’m looking at this 87 camaro. Guy says it’s an IROC. But there are no decals. No motor or trans. Just the body and interior?
A member here sent me the SPID. This car started out life with an 700R4. I wanted to get that that out there so any prospective buyers are aware.
It's true. Manny Both-Hanz died to bring us this info. Just goes to show that a small detail like the wrong shifter **** can give away a huge modification.
I'm not sure HOW this really effects the value. As a collector I view it as a reduction. As a car enthusiast it's an upgrade. How sayeth the rest of the flock?
I should edit, but oh well... Also to be clear, I withdraw my earlier statements that the car could be worth $X or Y dollar value. Based on the trans swap, I'd say it's worth less than if it were an original 5spd, but as a fun driver it might not be bad.
It all depends on how the swap was done. If it was done properly with all the correct bits and pieces, correct tuning etc. then fine. If it was done by someone who knew what they were doing, then I don't view it as a problem. Damages the car's originality for the purists, but to the average enthusiast, it's a huge upgrade that lots of guys would actually pay extra for.
I don't think anyone who has experience with these cars would say that the 700R4 does these car's any favors. In fact, I think they ruin the performance of these cars for street use. There is a reason 305/T5 cars are so popular. Years ago I figured the 305 would kill the value of any thirdgen and only the 350 cars would be desirable, now 15 years later it seems the manual trans has been the equalizer. For good reason I say, the only place a 700R4 belongs is in the scrap pile at Omnisource....
If he changed the cam then it might be a good thing but otherwise it's the same lo-po motor as 86 even though he does have the J65 & G92 but what gears are GU5?
I’d rather have a legit from factory 305 5 Speed combo unless it was just a driver car that I was going to have fun with.. I like to tow the line between enthusiast and collector and want the best of both worlds.. at the right price I’d drive the hell out of one of those transmission swap cars but probably wouldn’t keep it forever.
i don’t mind the 700 R4.. the right rear end and a shift kit and it can be fun.. I loved racing in Grand Nationals and my buddy had a fast 5.7 IROC back in the day that would pin you to the seat.. was just as fun as my 5-Speed.. I think GNs has the 200-4R though..
The only thing I really dislike about the 700R4 is it's lifespan in 2nd hand condition. The 1-2 ratio difference is only mildly annoying, and the torque converter locking and unlocking.... But yeah, I still prefer a manual transmission.
GU5 is a 10-bolt with 3.23 gears. Interesting that it didn't get a 9-bolt like a 350 car would, but I suppose it makes sense... The loss in power is a bummer.
The only thing I really dislike about the 700R4 is it's lifespan in 2nd hand condition. The 1-2 ratio difference is only mildly annoying, and the torque converter locking and unlocking.... But yeah, I still prefer a manual transmission.
GU5 is a 10-bolt with 3.23 gears. Interesting that it didn't get a 9-bolt like a 350 car would, but I suppose it makes sense... The loss in power is a bummer.
On the Camaro's, only the 5.7s and G92, 5 speed LB9s got the 9 bolt, through '89.
What makes this interesting is that it's a G92, LB9, auto car, with oil cooler and 3.23. Only available in '87 and '88.
If he changed the cam then it might be a good thing but otherwise it's the same lo-po motor as 86 even though he does have the J65 & G92 but what gears are GU5?
On the Camaro's, only the 5.7s and G92, 5 speed LB9s got the 9 bolt, through '89.
Sure. I mean I'll take your word for it, and the one reference I checked earlier seems to confirm it. I just generally consider any 85-89 thirdgen worth peeking under the skirt to have a 9-bolt. I'd just sorta expect them to be 9-bolt cars. But then I generally didn't pay much attention to thirdgens unless they were LB9 5spds or L98 cars.
Not sure if this is the place for this but a note of thanks to all for the guidance. Originality is high on my list and I am willing to pay for it but this one doesn't make the cut.
Newbies are often not well treated public forums because they ask things that have been asked 1000 times before but you guys are great!! You have prevented me from making an expensive mistake. Now off on the hunt I go again!!
Not sure if this is the place for this but a note of thanks to all for the guidance. Originality is high on my list and I am willing to pay for it but this one doesn't make the cut.
Newbies are often not well treated public forums because they ask things that have been asked 1000 times before but you guys are great!! You have prevented me from making an expensive mistake. Now off on the hunt I go again!!
Feel free to run the next one by us as well. Good luck! Half the fun is the hunt!
Well NOW you do, and it can be yours for only 15k dollars! There's a line of buyer's backed up around the block, thats why it's on Ebay. You better act fast without doing any research!
Well NOW you do, and it can be yours for only 15k dollars! There's a line of buyer's backed up around the block, thats why it's on Ebay. You better act fast without doing any research!
When I was a kid I used to marvel at the infomercials on TV when they would say "Act now, & you can have this awesome super one time deal if you call within the next 10 minutes, operators are standing by"
I just couldn't image how incredibly complicated that had to be to set up........ But, I was a naive 10 year old, & luckily there are not many 10 year olds buying cars..
The seller also forgot to mention the "FACTORY DELETE", factory wheel paint.
I'm thinking the owner of that car is browsing THIS thread....... Most things that have been mentioned here, have been fixed on the car, or at least talked about in the ad......and they're careful NOT to mention that it DID NOT COME with the gear grinder
The subwoofers are different, too. And the steering column is from an AUTOMATIC car.....no little trigger thingy to move to get the key out.
Prime example of knowing your info before you buy something, or at least have the smarts to research it on a site like this before you buy
I'm not understanding your statement of cloth door panels with leather seats. C'mon Drew, I know you better than this!!
Hmm.. Ya know, now that you mention it... The red leather interior in the 1987 brochure looks to have cloth door panels, and it says Leather seating surfaces. I feel like I've been living a lie for never noticing that the 87 Camaro with leather apparently came with cloth door panels? Mind blown.
And the steering column is from an AUTOMATIC car.....no little trigger thingy to move to get the key out.
Ah good catch! I didn't think to look for that.
It's really too bad the seller just won't learn enough about the car to sell it honestly. If he'd be honest about the lack of decals and transmission swap, he'd probably have better luck selling.
The SPID was added this morning, so at least people can see whats real if they take the time to research a bit.
I don't really miss decoding these cars manually. Or the years when option packages were listed along with each individual option code....
AC3 : ADJUSTER, FRT ST, POWER, 6 WAY, BKT, DRIVER
AG9 : ADJUSTER, SEAT, POWER, 6 WAY
AM9 : SEAT, RR, SPLIT, BACK, FLDG
AR9 : SEAT, FRT BKT, EUROPEAN STYLE, PASS A DRIVER RECL
AU3 : LOCK CONTROL, SIDE DR, ELEC
A01 : WINDOW, TINTED, ALL SHADED, W/S
A31 : WINDOW, POWER OPERATED, ALL DOORS
A90 : LOCK CONTROL, RR COMPT LID, REM CONT ELEC RELEASE
B18 : ORNAMENTATION, INTR, DELUX
B34 : COVERING, FRONT, FLOOR MATS, CARPETED INSERT
B35 : COVERING, REAR, FLOOR MATS, CARPETED INSERT
B4Z : IROC PACKAGE
B48 : TRIM EQUIPMENT, LUGGAGE COMPARTMENT
B84 : ORNAMENTATION, EXTR MLDG, BODY SIDE
B91 : ORNAMENTATION, EXTR MLDG, DR EDGE GUARD, COLORED
B94 : FENDER EMBLEM, Z28
B97 : ORNAMENTATION, EXTR MLDG, LOWER ACCENT
CC1 : ROOF HATCH, REMOVABLE PANELS, GLASS
CD4 : WIPER SYSTEM WINDSHIELD, PULSE
C49 : DEFOGGER, RR WINDOW, ELECTRIC
C60 : HVAC SYSTEM, AIR CONDITIONER FRT MAN CONTROLS
DD8 : MIRROR I/S, R/V, LT SENSITIVE
DG7 : MIRROR O/S, LH & RH, REM CONT, ELEC, PAINTED
DK6 : CONSOLE, ROOF, OVERHEAD
D08 : PAINT, HIGH GLOSS FINISH
D27 : COVER, RR COMPT, TRUNK STOW
D34 : MIRROR, VISOR VANITY
D42 : SHADE, RR COMPT SECURITY
D6F : GEAR, SPEEDO DRIVEN
D80 : SPOILER, RR END PNL
D88 : DECAL, STRIPE, SPORT
E5Z : SPEEDOMETER ADAPTER (DELETE)
E7Z : UNK ????
E9Z : SPEEDOMETER KEY (DELETE)
FE2 : SUSPENSION SYSTEM, RIDE HANDLING
GU5 : AXLE REAR, 3.23 RATIO
G80 : AXLE POSITRACTION, LIMITED SLIP
G92 : AXLE REAR RATIO, PERFORMANCE
J65 : BRAKE SYSTEM, PWR, FRT & RR DISC
KC4 : COOLING SYSTEM, HEAVY DUTY ENGINE OIL
K34 : CRUISE CONTROL, AUT0MATIC, ELECTRONIC
K68 : GENERATOR, 105 AMP
LB9 : ENGINE, GAS, 8 CYL, 5.0L, TPI, HO
MD8 : TRANSMISSION, AUTO 4 SPD, THM 700 R4
MXO : MERCHANDISED, TRANS, AUTO PROVISIONS, O/D
NA5 : EMISSION SYSTEM, FEDERAL, TIER O
N0D : NORWOOD OHIO ASSEMBLY PLANT
NP5 : LEATHER WRAPPED, STEERING WHEEL, PARKING BRAKE, AND SHIFT ****
N33 : STEERING COLUMN, TILT TYPE
N64 : WHEEL & TIRE,SPARE, SPACE SAVER, ALUMINUM
N96 : WHEEL, 16 X 8, CAST ALUMINUM
PB4 : LOCK CONTROL, WHEEL
P20 : HUBCAPS, WHEEL, STYLED
QDZ : TIRE ALL, P245/50VR16/N BL R/PE ST TL HW4
TR9 : LAMP, GROUP
TT4 : HEADLAMPS, HALOGEN, 4
T93 : LAMP, TAIL & STOP, SPECIAL (GRID TAIL LIGHT LENSES)
T96 : FOG LAMPS - FRONT
UQ1 : RADIO PROVISIONS, FOR STEREO
UQ4 : SPEAKER SYSTEM, BOSE, 4
UU8 : RADIO, AM/FM STEREO, SEEK/SCAN, AUTO REV MUSIC
U21 : CLUSTER, INST, OIL, COOL TEMP, VOLTS, TACH
U25 : LAMP, INTR, RR COMPT, COURTESY
U26 : LAMP, INTR, ENG COMPT, COURTESY
U29 : LAMP, INTR I/P, COURTESY
U75 : ANTENNA, POWER, RADIO
VK3 : LICENSE PLATE, FRT MOUNTING PKG
V73 : VEHICLE STATEMENT, USA/CANADA
YR1 : SEAT,FRT CUSTOM
YS1 : SEAT,RR CUST
YT1 : BUILD UP DR & QTR
YT9 : OPTION PACKAGE, FISHER FURNISHED PARTS
Z28 : MERCHANDISED PKG, SPECIAL PERFORMANCE
1AY : STOCK ORDERS PROCESSING OPTION (DEALER ORDERED CAR)
1HV : UNK ????
1SC : OPTION PACKAGE 03 (AG9, AU3, A01, A31, A90, B34, B35, B84, CD4, C60, D42, D80, DD8, DG7, DK6, K34, N33, TR9, TT4, T96, UX1, U21)
11Q : MOLDING COLOR, WHITE
15P : WHEEL COLOR SILVER METALLIC
40U : PRIMARY COLOR, EXTERIOR, WHITE
6ZX : SPRING, COMPUTER SELECTED, FRONT, LEFT HAND
7ZX : SPRING, COMPUTER SELECTED, FRONT, RIGHT HAND
8NL : SPRING, COMPUTER SELECTED, REAR, LEFT HAND
82I : INTERIOR TRIM (DARK MEDIUM GRAY)
822 : TRIM COMBINATION, LEATHER, MED DK GRAY
829 : SEAT BELT COLOR, MED DK GRAY
86A : STRIPE COLOR, ACCENT, ?????
9NL: SPRING, COMPUTER SELECTED, REAR, RIGHT HAND
Well, I told him that his claim of limited production 5 speed was a joke and that the DX3 decal delete option started in 1988, so there was no "Factory decal delete" for 1987. He did clean those up. Maybe he wants to be correct, but was fed a lot of stories when he bought it.
I probably should be less cynical. It's possible some of these sellers are just running a business & trying to make a buck (or many thousands) & are just regurgitating what they are told. It would take a passion for each car to know every detail I suppose. I just tend to paint all of these online sellers with one brush stroke. Same old rule though, buyer beware. He quickly provided the SPID, so he wasn't trying to hide his claims. But, on the other hand the lack of MM5 he now knows about & its not mentioned that its converted, Just the rarity has just been removed. So I'll give the seller credit for a partial add overhaul, but its still a little deceiving.
Who knows for sure what is going on? I was indirect contact with him for 2 months and came real close to buying the car. He is good at using language that can be taken more than one way. He insinuated that he bought the car new but I dont know that he used those exact words. When I asked about the decals and stripes he suffered from memory lapse. When I asked about the RPO being wrong for manual trans he acted like he wasn't aware of RPOs or what they mean. Now he claims that an "expert" has told him that the RPOS mean nothing. If you look closely at the Hemmings ad or the ebay ad neither one says the cay is a factor 5 speed,,,,,,, I did notice that the dent is gone. I dont hold any ill will toward the guy, used cars are a buyer beware market and there are people with lots of money and little knowledge buying them every day. He might just snag one of them.
I kinda give sellers the benefit of the doubt. Most simply just don't know any better, or don't know where to look, or don't care to research. Fortunately, thirdgens are pretty easy to decode and identify, as long as a person knows where to look.
03-10-2018, 08:07 PM
Just goes to show that a small detail like the wrong shifter **** can give away a huge modification.
