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DFI and ECMDiscuss all aspects of DFI (Digital Fuel Injection), ECMs (Electronic Control Module), scanners, and diagnostic equipment. Fine tune your Third Gen computer system for top performance.
Calling anyone that has been down this road before for your wisdom. About 2 yrs back I decided to upgrade my 86 iroc as I could afford. I had it it repainted stock color with all the stickers and emblems put back on and it came out pretty good. I then started collecting the whole interior (everything new). I then decided on an engine as I was able to get enough money saved up for upgrading it to a 350. The more I thought about it and read about it, I went overboard (on my abilities), and bought a 383 crate engine, a stealth ram and all the goodies to go with it (from Holley off one of their SEMA projects). Now I have pored over the threads about these swaps and thought I can do this (all else fails, this place is the most comprehensive place to get answers, right?)... well, my problem is this: I have no time and money for learning how to tune this thing, nor the desire really, with all else I got going on and still trying to get this car swarped and drivable again, the interior, fixing the sagging hinges on the doors, etc. I bit off more than i should of, but im learning and taking my lumps. Im passionate about this car and addicted to 3rd gens, but I'm starting to feel overwhelmed!!! Is there something I can use in this piticular setup like the holley systems that are sold with these stealth rams that would be alot simpler to use to get it running, self learning I guess so I don't have to mess with the chip being burnt several times,etc. Actually, I can't even find anything close enough by me if I needed that can do this type of thing, and of course, I scared to death of getting a mail ordered chip that trashes this engine after all the thousands I got in it so far. So if you have some proven suggestions and would be willing to share, I'm in need of them guys!
You spent all that time and money, and now you say you don't want to spend any more time and money.
You either double-down and finish the mission, or you call it off.
Sorry to be blunt, but it has to be worth it to YOU every step of the way. The rest of the world is too preoccupied with washing the dog, or whatever their own personal drama of the day may be, to give you the emotional motivation to make hard choices.
This being the TGO forum, you know we want you to stay with us. At this point, you are at that crossroads of being all-in or whatever the other thing is. Spiritually, we say keep pushing.
If you don't NEED to sell this car, don't. Right now you are looking at a bunch of puzzle pieces on a coffee table. But you have all the pieces (or nearly all).
I would look forward to this project. It feels overwhelming if you look at the whole thing. But if you spend a little time breaking it into manageable steps of a plan and begin with only that first step, you will soon be rolling.
The tuning is surprisingly affordable and there are many reputable folks like Scott Hansen, ScottHansen.net (who I recently worked with) and board sponsor TunedPerformance (I think) on this board who can work with you on a tune. It is very affordable. For example, Scott offers a performance tune for my stock 305 for $75 exchange.
Your setup is probably typical and they will likely already have a tune that should get you very close to a great starting position.
Plus, on this Board, there are many here who enjoy helping guys like you who take on this sort of challenge and just need guidance and expertise along the way.
Take a breath, survey where you are in this, focus on one objective for now, make a plan and take your first step.
Last edited by Tootie Pang; 09-25-2017 at 11:08 AM.
You should invest in a wb gauge. If your not wanting to deal with multiple chip swaps you will want to look into dynamic efi ebl or similar ecm that will help you self learn fueling. Plenty of info on tpi maf tuning in the stickies. IMO it's easier to tune than speed density.
Tuned is right. Get a WB O2 sensor and at least get Tunerpro up and running to take some data. Even if you get a chip burning outfit to get you a chip, the more feedback you can provide on how the engine is responding, the more accurate the tune will be to your application.
Also agree with Tootie Pang... With how many people there are online who are able to provide assistance, it shouldn't be too difficult to get you up and running.
I like to modify the memcal with a dip to replace the soldered in prom.
A moates.net g1 adapter does the same thing when piggybacked to a memcal.
This way a new chip can be mailed after a starter tune is done.
That is strange that you would buy all that without a plan...
Order a mail tune and datalog the car yourself.
As you start to datalog you'll quickly learn what to look for and what's bad. Then it's quick and easy to fix the tune from there.
I got an ATK that has some forged internals, a decent set of a aluminum heads, etc. If your more curious there is an old thread on it where Notalent from Atk talks about it.
I like to modify the memcal with a dip to replace the soldered in prom.
A moates.net g1 adapter does the same thing when piggybacked to a memcal.
This way a new chip can be mailed after a starter tune is done.
Is there anything else I should be looking at that isn't so dated (that I could get worked on by more places or at least more common for places to) to upgrade this? The more I think about how to do the FI on this, I just want to be smart about this down the road. Outside of this group, now a days, it seems this tech is lost to people. Im just wondering if it would be smarter to (and maybe easier) to look to something else a shop now a day could accually hook into, without me have to Frankenstein something together that most mechs wouldn't understand?? As much as I wish it was true, the reality is I can't always work on my stuff and if needed, I want to be able to take it somewhere for help. If it is smarter to keep this original set up and just get a tune, then that's cool too. I just don't want to miss something here.
If you don't NEED to sell this car, don't. Right now you are looking at a bunch of puzzle pieces on a coffee table. But you have all the pieces (or nearly all).
I would look forward to this project. It feels overwhelming if you look at the whole thing. But if you spend a little time breaking it into manageable steps of a plan and begin with only that first step, you will soon be rolling.
The tuning is surprisingly affordable and there are many reputable folks like Scott Hansen, ScottHansen.net (who I recently worked with) and board sponsor TunedPerformance (I think) on this board who can work with you on a tune. It is very affordable. For example, Scott offers a performance tune for my stock 305 for $75 exchange.
Your setup is probably typical and they will likely already have a tune that should get you very close to a great starting position.
Plus, on this Board, there are many here who enjoy helping guys like you who take on this sort of challenge and just need guidance and expertise along the way.
Take a breath, survey where you are in this, focus on one objective for now, make a plan and take your first step.
Don't need or want to sell it, just need to figure out the computer set up. Not giving up, don't know where that came from (from the other members post)... I'm just looking for some way to set this up on my own now that I have a little time. I'm not a tuner or even much of a wrencher, but this is something I always wanted and I went for it. Just looking for the best option since sodering things together and burning chips, and data logging, and burning new chips, etc just did sound like the most efficient way to go. But I don't know. That's what I'm asking. If I can put a newer system in that can read it's own data, give me access to change the data (without a new chip) and user friendly to modern shop, that's sound better. Plus if it does the changes for me, that would make me more comfortable.
sodering things together and burning chips, and data logging, and burning new chips, etc just did sound like the most efficient way to go. But I don't know.
There's no soldering needed if you buy the part mentioned from moates.
This process is no different from other cars.
Flash, datalog, edit tune, repeat.
Burn, datalog, edit tune, repeat.
The difference is minor.
It's only people unwilling to learn the simple step of burning a prom (VERY easy to do) instead of flashing in-car that make it sound difficult to others. It's like tuning itself. Not hard but people love to make is seem that way so you give them money.
You should invest in a wb gauge. If your not wanting to deal with multiple chip swaps you will want to look into dynamic efi ebl or similar ecm that will help you self learn fueling. Plenty of info on tpi maf tuning in the stickies. IMO it's easier to tune than speed density.
So is this what the holley type of set ups are? What I saw was one with its own LCD that basically said it learns itself and adjust accordingly.
There's no soldering needed if you buy the part mentioned from moates.
This process is no different from other cars.
Flash, datalog, edit tune, repeat.
Burn, datalog, edit tune, repeat.
The difference is minor.
It's only people unwilling to learn the simple step of burning a prom (VERY easy to do) instead of flashing in-car that make it sound difficult to others. It's like tuning itself. Not hard but people love to make is seem that way so you give them money.
So what about having to pull out the chip every time and if the tune makes something worse then you don't just back to what you had with out pulling the chip out each time. I thought it was in a pain of kneck spot under the passenger side dash. Seems like the flash you said would be better?
So what about having to pull out the chip every time and if the tune makes something worse then you don't just back to what you had with out pulling the chip out each time. I thought it was in a pain of kneck spot under the passenger side dash. Seems like the flash you said would be better?
That's where the emulators come in. Ostrich emulator from moates is awesome.
That's where the emulators come in. Ostrich emulator from moates is awesome.
So this makes it like the newer stuff I have seen, with their own lcd's where you can see everything going on and make changes yourself. I assume this hooks to your own laptop, and and you would have full control? But what about the chip, does it still have to be taken out and burned from a file that you saved once you figure out a good setup? I assume you can't save the tune directly.
So what about having to pull out the chip every time and if the tune makes something worse then you don't just back to what you had with out pulling the chip out each time. I thought it was in a pain of kneck spot under the passenger side dash. Seems like the flash you said would be better?
All you do is swap the prom with a second prom. If you screw up a tune swap them back. That's 1000 times faster than flashing. Yes the ecu has to come out while tuning. It's no big deal.
People blow this stuff up to be something so hard.
I'm shocked people don't freak out about the process of adding fuel to the tank.
The ostrich replaces the prom with a processor and dongle thing. It's works like just like a flashing system.
All you do is swap the prom with a second prom. If you screw up a tune swap them back. That's 1000 times faster than flashing. Yes the ecu has to come out while tuning. It's no big deal.
People blow this stuff up to be something so hard.
I'm shocked people don't freak out about the process of adding fuel to the
The ostrich replaces the prom with a processor and dongle thing. It's works like just like a flashing system.
lol...true. ok, I wanna make sure I'm following right. I looked at his Facebook post showing how to use the moates. Looks like that just data logs. Then you send that off for a chip. When you use the ostrich thing it let's you make adjustments to this in real time?. Then all you do is save the file to burn to a chip when your happy? If that's true it sounds ok, but I still don't know what I'm doing with changing parameters on an engine. I'd be as good as buying a chip from eBay with no feedback (big crapshoot). I'm looking at getting this safely running with out me become proficient in something that is totally Greek to me. Are there any options like that? I'm looking into the dynamic ebl like he suggested earlier as we chat
Then you send that off for a chip. When you use the ostrich thing it let's you make adjustments to this in real time?. Then all you do is save the file to burn to a chip when your happy?
Yep. With my Ostrich and a laptop (with Tunerpro taking data), I literally pull over to the side of the road, make a change, hit upload and in about 3 seconds it uploads to the Ostrich. I don't even shut off the engine.
I use Tunercat to actually make the calibration changes since I've been using it for years, but you can use Tunerpro as well.
Problem is once you start tuning, you can't stop! Lol... It's always "hmmmm... I think I can improve this or that"... my ECM has been on the passenger side footwell for I don't know how many years now...
Yeah, I wouldn't buy some chip "blind" like that. Work with someone you can provide feedback to (preferably with data) so they can make the adjustments (if you're not up to doing your own tuning).
09-25-2017, 02:03 AM
It's always "hmmmm... I think I can improve this or that"... my ECM has been on the passenger side footwell for I don't know how many years now...