jeremyb1988

Hey guys...so about a month ago I got my top end rebuilt by my mechanic...well the car has been running great. Until today...so I took up up the highway...and then came back home. Its a very hot and muggy NC day...like 95 and humid as can be as usual. Well the car seemed to be struggling in lower speads to get fuel it seemed...mainly from 0-35MPH range. I noticed it was low on fuel figured well maybe its not getting good fuel pick up. Filled it full of fuel (premium and added some fuel cleaner). Well I noticed too that when its at idle, it stays I guess around 500 RPM or so...but its not steady. It will do a steady pattern of about 2 seconds of the low idle then go up to about a grand I want to say then back to the 500 range. Its a steady up and down sounds so its like 2 seconds or so of the normal idle then a split second of the higher spike then back down to the normal idle. I just dont remember it doing this before. Is it possible my fuel pump is showing signs of failing? It sounded like it wanted to stall a few times here and there as well I should add...it did get hot today as well the car that is. I have completely replaced the entire coolant system and it holds great pressure. However I just cant keep the thing cooled down when I'm in traffic! It got up to about 240 today which I think is fine. Of course I cut the AC and heat on full blast trying to keep it down. Its got a 180 Tstat in it and down the highway stays about 160ish but man as soon as you start to get going slow thru town it really struggles staying around 220.

Also it does start a bit hard sometimes...not bad though...it starts a little easier sometimes than others...but seems like when its hot it takes a split second longer to crank, the car also does back fire a tad bit when decelling from lower gears while slowing down. I can hear the pump from inside the car...I dont think its real loud...but maybe I'm not sure how loud these pumps should be, I figured it was normal. It does not sound like a really loud song to me...more of a hummmm

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Check fuel pressure.

Also are the injectors original? They weren't a great injector. Swap to some Bosch D3's from SouthBay. Lean conditions will generate more heat. You may have inconsistent cylinder fueling. Some rich and some lean, etc. If an injector starts to fail the computer will simply richen them all up to compensate but that may still leave one or more cylinders lean with the rest overly rich. Throws everything off because the computer *assumes* all the injectors are the same size and flow rate.

If you are going to run a 180 thermostat then you also need to get a chip burned to turn on the fans sooner. Say 200 on, and 190 off would be good.

I have 24lb Bosch D3's, 185 thermostat, and lowered fan set points. I was maintaining less than 220 on the freeway in 105 degree weather week before last. Cooling system is new, but stock.

GD

jeremyb1988

Hey man the fan is hardwired to the ignition by previous owner...yes I highly imagine there stock injectors...u think there just messing up when they get so hot...Iv been told a while back they weren't the best in general and especially when running for a while and hot

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Yes the original style injectors tend to short out when hot. That results in them not being able to open or not open as far - this will cause lean, lean = hot.

Also intake manifold leaks - hoses, gaskets, etc. Intake leaks will cause a lean condition also.

GD

jeremyb1988

Yeah well...assuming my mechanic did a good job on the WHOLE top end rebuild I imagine I could rule that out...the injectors make sense....

jeremyb1988

Hey man...these are the closet ones I have found! https://www.southbayfuelinjectors.co...el-injectors-8

I'm taking it to my mechanic on Monday and hopefully getting a fuel pressure test done on Monday if i'm lucky and Tuesday at the latest...I'm really praying he says its the injectors and not the pump lol...I dont think its the pump...I'm gonna drive it tomorrow when the engine is cold and see how she does...I think that will give me a better indicator.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Yep those are the ones you want. They make a huge difference in how these engines run.

GD

jeremyb1988

K...hey man...so I have spent literally thousands on this car getting it up to par...I believe it sat for a while sadly. I had a rear main seal bad, oil pan gasket, etc...the electronics seem to be slowly coming back alive with continued use of me driving it when I can. Is this maybe symptons of a car that sat for a long time and has been neglected. Its only got 70K on it...the interior is in really good shape. The car is so interesting to me though...a lot of weird things was going on with it.

The rear hatch motor would work...I took apart the panels...and someone had completely taken out the relay and wiring harness for the motor??? Weird...the horn didnt work...took the cover off, and someone had removed the entire harness lol...the windshield washer pump nozzle was broken of and pump didnt work...so someone had just run the washer fluid hose directly from the jug to the wipers and bi passed the pump all together...just really weird stuff going on. I'm restoring the car and I'v tried really really hard to get her in really good working order. Its a bit frustrating that she keeps having these issues here and there is all. Im not an expert mechanic and can fix the small things, starter alternators, etc...and am timid to work on the more detailed things. I just dont know a lot about these third gens...and I dont think there money pits...its just that as of now it seems slightly this way is all...smh. I am actually a pretty imo skilled mechanic on helicopters and we have had some before that sat for years and had to bring back from the dead...they all would do fine but it seemed like they would nickle and dime you to death until about a year later when you got them really back on track, I feel that way about this thing. I guess I'm venting a bit and thank god for this site...there are some really good people on here I have become friends with and without this place I really would be lost. I use this site so when I take it to my mechanic I can give more detailed info to hopefully help him out and save a bit of time on his part...

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Yeah that's about the size of it.

Mine sat for 11 years and was pretty much left to the mice till I came along. It took 6-8 months before I drove the car under it's own power. I'm a professional mechanic - actually I own a 5 bay shop so I guess I've graduated to "shop owner" or "upper management" or something... king **** of turd island.... etc.

Just keep at it. If you are an experienced helicopter mechanic then I would encourage you to change the injectors yourself. It's definitely not a difficult job. I would suggest a set of socket-head Allen tuned port injection runner bolts off eBay, etc to go along with the injectors. A 6mm, ball-tipped, 1/4" drive Allen socket pairs perfectly with these to make plenum/runner removal much easier IMO.

GD

jeremyb1988

Thanks man...I will...im going to make a huge post with lots of pics of me and the car and kinda the story behind the car soon . That's great u have a successful shop! I watch a lot of business shows and studied business...I know u must deep down be proud!

Tootie Pang

iTrader: (2)

I'm an engineer and have worked on my own cars for 30 years now. I got my 89 in February and its been waaaay more of a mechanical project than I was anticipating and I'm still trying to "herd the cats" of troubles on this thing. I've changed everything, yes everything, except the crank, pistons, and cam stuff and getting it to run smoothly is elusive. Patience and money is an absolute must on these cars.

jeremyb1988

I'm really starting to find that out...well my credit card as of now has a zero balance...but I'm deploying in about 8 months...and like I told my GF. I said I love this car...I want it running the way it should or better than from the factory...the reality is I may not come back...even though in todays times you may not come back from the grocery store bc of some lunatic...but I told her, I dont care what it cost...I want to enjoy my car the way it was meant to be...I want to have confidence in her that I can take her to the beach and back and it be okay...I would rather have a 150K IROC-Z that has been taking cared of and runs well rather than a 20K that has barely been driving and the paint looks great but nothing else has been tested, and tried and true! I'll be honest financially I should get certain things done...but the money will be coming in while I'm gone and I really dont care...u kind of have a **** it attitude when it comes to my situation. I want her to sound loud and proud...not that guy that has the old classic but it misses and backfires all the time...I'm like you, I will get there...just takes time, and money...money most ppl on here dont have...unless you have a really good job. You dont see a lot of super rich ppl driving these that I'm aware of...mainly guys that make modest means...

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

These are increasing in value right now. You're getting in at the right time IMO. I didn't pick mine up as an investment..... I just like to play with different things - like to change it up a bit from time to time. A friend offered it to me for doing a clutch on his Vette. It was almost certainly a better deal for him but he's a friend and good times were had. I got my clapped out Trans Am and four Camaro's in various states of decay. I just love me some discarded machines!







That was when we dragged it out.

This is a few months ago. I have more done now like the hood vents, and such. Still working on the paint. RustOleum/mineral spirits and a roller.





I may own a shop, but that just means I'm one of the poorest suckers on here - I just happen to get parts for wholesale and they are a write off. And of course I don't have to pay for labor or lift time... or a host of other incidentals which means I can do a lot with small monetary investment. And very, very occasionally I can tell one of my employees to wash my car and they can't really tell me no. LoL

You don't have to be rich. Motivation and Ingenuity and a good set of tools will take you a long way.

GD

vinny R

The 3 P's! Patience, Persistence, Paypal! I am a Graphics guy by trade and took a mechanic shop class when in high school. The later was many moons ago. I got my 91 about 2 yrs ago and just like most everyone who buys a third gen it had its 25 yrs of issues. I have pretty much sorted most of those issues by myself with this sites help. I am also limited on my tools and knowledge. This site has really helped me with the knowledge part. I too work on limited funds, so it has taken more time to get her back to where she is now. I drove her home when I bought it with a massive vaccum leak, busted TPS sensor and a throttle cable held in place with a tie wrap! Yeah I whiffed on that one before I drove home. Used a cell phone charge cable to get me home. Anyway I never drove one new but I think it runs better than it did when new. The three P's paid off. Good luck with the car and Thank you for your service to our country!!!!

BTW check that TPS sensor, that symptom of the up and down idle could be it. It was on mine.

jeremyb1988

Hey guys...sorry...I'm meaning to respond to each and every one of you individually just been a busy weekend. Okay...so THERE is definitely a problem. I'm not sure what it is...but I started old girl up...and man she is idling rough and WILL not stay in one spot. Just all over the place. Kinda sounds like its missed timming...its not trying to shut off really...so that leaves me to believe its not a fuel problem. I checked the TPS (thanks to this site)...its a little low..its more around .40ish. Now mind you the car was running great prior to this! I got it back from my mechanic, full top end rebuild and she was doing great! Now its running like crap!

So to recap...woke up, drove her down the I-40 highway...did fine for like a 40 minute drive, super hot NC day! Stopped by the fish store, cranked her up, all good...got back towards home on the side streets in town...she started to as I would call "foul up"...started to act like she couldnt get fuel at certain time...but she was doing okay. Thought she was TOO hot...but temp was okay 220 ish give or take.

Let her cool down for about 2 hours...restarted and had the up and down idle as described above in the earlier post. Shut her down. Now its 2 days later, cranked her up...running like ****! Idle is all over the place...starts to sound like she wants to die but wont...feel like she has flow...tries to idle consistently for a bit and then get back to idling like ****. Thought it was the fuel pump or injectors at first...but as many has said the injectors cause problems when hot...HOWEVER I wonder if an injector has gone bad! The car...IMO and I cannot verify has sat for a while at some point...either way I'm taking it to my top notch mechanic on Monday damn it! Its gonna get fixed either way...smh...

jeremyb1988

Hey man cool pics! So thats a GTA right? Very nice car indeed! Are parts harder to find for those than the Camaros? Thats soo cool how you brought this one back from the dead basically! You see SOOOO many for these for sale on FB adds or CG or wherever and there almost beyond bringing back to life for the average person. I added to the post on here last night...wonder if its a bad spark plug. Never had a bad one before on a car...whats the symptoms of one of them bad? Rough idle, high fuel consumption I read online?

jeremyb1988

Hey yeah I tested the TPS...I got 1.40ish I believe on the mulitmeter...or .40 whatever its suppose to be...it was not at the .54 range from what I could tell but when I moved the throttle cable the volts changed up and down...so I think thats working okay. I asked GD on here...maybe its a bad spark plug, started it up last night...good lord...thing was not idling well at all lol...so who knows. I'll let my mechanic figure it out on Monday or Tuesday...hopefully they can adjust my TPS sensor too...

jeremyb1988

Hey guys...I wanted to add that the car really smells like its running rich!!! I mean I cranked that thing up in the garage and within like 1 minute my eyes were burning! It always smelled a bit but now its a lot worse...does things with exhaust leaks or w/e cause this?

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

If you haven't done a "tune up" then that should be first on your list. Plugs are so cheap that if you are going to remove them to check them out you may as well replace them with new ones. A new set of wires, and a cap/rotor should be included. That's a standard tune up and on these vehicles should be about every 25-30k miles for plugs, cap, and rotor. Wires less often and depends on quality. Some wires like Magnecore, are nearly lifetime, while generic parts store stuff may want replaced every tune up.

GD

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

It's not a GTA because it's an 86. GTA's were introduced in 87. It has every feature you could get in 86 except the power drivers seat though. The wheels actually are original and were special order in 86. The 87 GTA came with essentially the same wheels as standard equipment for their package. It was a pretty good find overall. Was off the road for 11 years and never modified or driven by idiot kids. Adult owned - two owners since new both worked at the same hospital. Best of all - no rust. Here in Oregon cars don't rust and it was parked on plastic and covered by a collapsed greenhouse.

I would say parts are about the same to find as Camaro's. I got a parts car for $300 so most of what I need has come from that. EBay for the rest.

GD

jeremyb1988

Yeah I was asking bc the front end looked like a GTA? I knew they came out in 87...but I figured maybe you took the badge off or something. Either way its nice...yeah I'll get my mechanic to look at it...my NEW mechanic. I paid 40 bucks for a carfax report today ...I got documentation all the way back to 91..seems as though it had 3 owners total, lived in Indiana most of its life...I emailed the dealership thats on the key chain that came with the car...they never got back with me...I'm trying desperately to find its origins and stuff...ugh! I'll be honest with you...if one day I have to drive or fly up to PA to talk with the owner of the dealership that is amazingly still alive and doing well and ask him if he can find records I'll do it one day lol. I gotta find this stuff out man its really important to me. I feel like a adopted kid looking for his parents lol.

Tootie Pang

iTrader: (2)

So it sounds like you've got two issues- unstable/rough idle RPM (500 or so), and overheating in traffic.

The idle at 500 RPM is a good thing. Many times these cars suffer from high or hunting idle. So, rough at 500 RPM is a good place to start.

I would get a can of starting fluid spray and when the engine is cold, start it up and give it shorter bursts of spray around all the vacuum seal (manifold, plenum, tb, etc) and vacuum line areas (including both ends and including the brake booster). The engine will rev up if an open vacuum line sucks some of that spray in and you will have located the area and should be able to find it. Be very cautions you do not have any open sparking otherwise you will have a fireball. Full face mask probably isn't a bad idea.

Also, make sure your fuel pressure is good. Also, there should be no gasoline coming out of the vacuum connection on the regulator.






Not sure if by "top end" you meant ignition stuff, but if not could be dirty plugs, bad wires, etc.