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Organized Drag Racing and AutocrossDrag racing and autocross discussions and questions. Techniques, tips, suggestions, and "what will I run?" questions.
After over 6 years of messing with Turbo V6 engines in these thirdgens im switching over to V8s. I had a catastrophic failor last weekend with my V6. Broke the crank, which bent some forged rods and really trashed the piston and a cylinder. SO I had a friend with this proven 385 SBC who had this for sale.
Im a bracket racer first and foremost. The past few years I fell away from that always chasing times in the V6s. Almost like I was trying to prove something. Granted I did make a best of a 11.23@123Mph and that was in 3.1/3100 engine at the time(191 cubic inches). But I need to get back to what I was good at 6 years ago when I didnt chase down times, and have to fix my car each and every weekend trying to keep the loaded bomb together.
So I may be racing this Sunday if the weather co operates.
Its a 385 stroker SBC. Scat 9000 cast rotating assembly. .040 350 block.
Dart Iron 200cc heads
Comp cam XE268 baby cam
Comp Ultra Gold 1.6 rockers
Holly DP 750 carb
Elderbrock Nitrous plate system, wet (and every other bell and whistle on the car to complement it. My V6 used n20 every pass)
Elec Proform 35gpm pump
Mini starter.
MSD 6al-2 programmable ignition
MSD Pro billet dizzy
Taylor 10.2mm wires.
Performer RPM intake
and theres more im sure but the engine was a proven 12.0 et in a 3500 f bird so hopefully it can propel me to about the same.
My car was not set up for a NA set up so my gears are off.... 3.23 but i luckly have a smaller stall I can use. A freakshow 3500 instead of the 5k PTC stall that was in the car.
I have a hughes trans in this car with a T-brake but dont plan to use it as with this slower engine im sure to be in sportsman class only and not pro like i was in the turbo 6. Sometimes it was a bit too fast in sportsman at certain tracks where the cut is 12 flat. Hard to turn down a 11.30-40 car to 12 flat and be consistant.
I hope to be much more consistant and win more rounds with this set up and will be sure to update anyone that is interested.
Everybody has their own requirements for how they want to race. Like you, some may want to see how good they can do with a V6 turbo. Others may limit themselves to a 305. If you want, you could even race the 2.5L 4 cylinder in a third gen. There are still a lot of other people who only want to run a small tire with a high HP car. Each restriction is something you need to find a way to overcome just to prove that it can be done.
Then on the other scale, there's people like me. Stuff the biggest engine I can under the hood. Well maybe not completely under the hood. Stuff the biggest tire I can under the car, etc, etc etc. I have no restrictions to what I can do. Yes there are cars that can run faster with smaller engines with turbos or even a small tire but like you said, they are always a grenade waiting to go off. Even with what I have, I go racing expecting to break something.
As for the gearing, I originally had an old school 383 in the car that ran high 11's at 117 mph with a 3.27 gear 9 bolt. Gearing was really bad. By the time I crossed the 1/4 mile, I was just starting to get into the powerband. It was fun launching up against another car running a similar ET. They would jump ahead at the start and I would start pulling hard by the 1000 foot mark when they were topping out. I had a few racers tell me it was hard to judge when I was going to pass them or not.
The car is set up perfectly now. When I hit the 1/4 mile mark, I can't go any faster.
Turbos may make a lot more power but lack consistency for a bracket car. It's impressive to see a twin turbo 6 liter car drive to the track, make an 8 second pass then drive home but trying to run the same ET for a bracket race isn't as easy as with a NA engine.
fasteddi, I think you got in to Drag Week 2017, right?
That would be Mars. He has one the only V6 is that I know of that's faster than me on this board.
I was planning on doing drag week 2018 because they are so many guidelines you have to conform to and with V6 as it's a little harder to get certain parts that are certified. I was very close to sending in paperwork for drag week 17 but I am very glad I didn't now because I would have been very upset if I didn't have a car capable of running low 11s High 10s and being consistent on the road
Everybody has their own requirements for how they want to race. Like you, some may want to see how good they can do with a V6 turbo. Others may limit themselves to a 305. If you want, you could even race the 2.5L 4 cylinder in a third gen. There are still a lot of other people who only want to run a small tire with a high HP car. Each restriction is something you need to find a way to overcome just to prove that it can be done.
Then on the other scale, there's people like me. Stuff the biggest engine I can under the hood. Well maybe not completely under the hood. Stuff the biggest tire I can under the car, etc, etc etc. I have no restrictions to what I can do. Yes there are cars that can run faster with smaller engines with turbos or even a small tire but like you said, they are always a grenade waiting to go off. Even with what I have, I go racing expecting to break something.
As for the gearing, I originally had an old school 383 in the car that ran high 11's at 117 mph with a 3.27 gear 9 bolt. Gearing was really bad. By the time I crossed the 1/4 mile, I was just starting to get into the powerband. It was fun launching up against another car running a similar ET. They would jump ahead at the start and I would start pulling hard by the 1000 foot mark when they were topping out. I had a few racers tell me it was hard to judge when I was going to pass them or not.
The car is set up perfectly now. When I hit the 1/4 mile mark, I can't go any faster.
Turbos may make a lot more power but lack consistency for a bracket car. It's impressive to see a twin turbo 6 liter car drive to the track, make an 8 second pass then drive home but trying to run the same ET for a bracket race isn't as easy as with a NA engine.
All of the years that I had a turbo bracket car I bet a dozen times that I want to race only because I was so slow at the beginning but would trap speeds that were way higher then somebody running a comparable ET. It was definitely an advantage. And I'm sure this new setup I have will be close to it but not nearly as dramatic.
I do look forward to starting up the engine hopefully tonight. I got quite a bit done in the last 2 nights after work. It's amazing that about 4 days ago I had a V6 turbo in this car.
obviously my engine bay is not the best shape right now. I'm sure that after I keep tweaking it will look better.
I am not going to hook the nitrous up for a little while until I get that all situated. I don't even know how much nitrous I can put this motor to be honest. I've only tune fuel injected Nitrous system before never a carbureted one so I have some learning to do with carburetor. I do have a wideband, on my car a knock sensor, a map sensor hooked up to a 6al 2 programmable. I will still be using the computer for certain things such as actually starting the car and data logging what information I can.
I am really hoping it does not rain on Sunday so I can take this car to the race track it should be ready by then
Sill a lot of wiring to fix. Braided fuel line to add among other things but it runs very good and is a Damn healthy motor.
4 days ago just had a blown up V6 and it had five days ago and had a workong V6 so I think I did pretty well considering I work 40 or 50 hours a week LOL it's been 3 late nights in a row getting it running.
Thats awesome man. As far as gearing i love having the mph. Yea i aint gettin all the et out my car but it runs 7.40 and mph like a 6.80 car. Quarter mile is 11.50 with 124 mph. Everyone here runs 4.56 with 28 tires. Dont be a sheep! Good luck
if you have any usable buick v6 parts for sale let me know i may be interested,
I never ran a Buick V6 so I don't have any parts like that but I do have a turbosmart wastegate turbosmart blow off valve in a Borg Warner s366 Turbo for sale let alone a lot of braided oil return an oil supply line.
well they cancelled the races today because of rain so I didn't get to make it there although the car is definitely ready to go to the track I am hoping for a 12.50 or lower right out of the gate. Right now it's open headers so I haven't got to drive it around on the road very much to tune the carburetor but the wideband was telling arround 12.7 afr the few times i dis got wot. As long as the weather holds up next weekend I will be racing on Sunday. I have the timing lock at 34 degrees right now I have a MSD 6al2 programmable box but I haven't got it to connect yet to my computer I have a racetronix USB to serial adapter that I cannot find the driver for online. So right now I am running a MSD 6al box and I switch the ignition on after a cranks over a few times. I still do need to finish up the roll cage and harness but I can do that this week.
Let's see if anyone can make a close guess to get another 1/4 Mile estimate. Last week I went racing and it was a grudge race no ET the timing system has problem so we did not get any Time Slips but I did make one successful pass out of the 2. The first half my throttle cable came unhooked so I didn't make a full pass. Racing Sunday so I'll be sure to post times. 75 and sunny forecasted.
One of his passes when he first did the swap. 12.26 on the brakes. Iirc he was running super rich. Dialed it in better later on. Running 12.0s later that year. Hes a good friend of mine.
https://youtu.be/zkLLWajy30o
mods.
385 ci 11.1:1 compression
dart iron heads 200cc intake runners.
xe268 cam
comp gold rockers 1.6 ratio
eagle cast rotating assembly. Forged rods.
rpm performer dual plane intake
msd pro billet dizzy and msd coil
msd 6al 2 plus a programmable box
Taylor wires
holley 750 dp carb. 31/33 squirters 73/79 jets.
mini starter
hooker headers open headers
elec water pump
Sfi balancer
freakshow 3500 stall converter
Hughes th350 trans. Rev. Man. Valve body with brake(Not using 2 step or brake)
3.23 rear end gears. Lock right locker. Moser 28 spline axles. C clip eliminaters. Girdle with bearing supports. Welded tubes.
275 drag radials mts
3320 race weight.
lots of suspension goodies. Lake wood 90/10 struts lake wood 50/50 shocks. Adjustable tq arm. Adjustable lca. Adjustable pan hard bar. All tubular.
No front seat bar.
6pt cage
sub frame connectors.
NOT shooting n20 right now.
Running at 6.5psi fuel pressure. Shifting at 5700 seemed like I was about 5200 at the traps the other day. 12.6-12.9 AFR On the pass. 35 total timing after 2k rpm.
My gear suxs. Ment for my old turbo trapping 120 plus mph, But the larger converter I'm running does get it outta the hole ok.
the engine before with a 89 fbird weighing in at 3500lbs race weight. Had a best of 11.90@114mph. With a th350 and a ford 9 inch rear 3.70 gear, b&m 2800- 3k stall. He went 1.66 1.67 60s
From what it felt like I would guess at 12.20 12.30 as a good pass. If I can knock down a 1.70-1.73 60.
12.159 12.171 and a pass that would convert to 12.163 all at 110mph. 1.64 1.64 1.65 60 foots. Shifting at 5400 weighed the car. 3380 race weight
bad 1st time reaction .100 red. After that .030 and .027 just where i wanted it.
a close friend of mine locked his 12 bolt up at the 1000 ft Mark going a bit over 100mph. Saved the car thankfully buy did a little bit if damage. Trashed the rear end. Tranmsmission gas tank and driveshaft. 1970 chevelle. So I had my mind else where at elims but I still managed to cut a respectable .027 light but I heard some bad sounds from the rear area clicking and stuff like that so I let off and peddled and it did it again so I threw that away. The car I was racing had a .4xx bulb. Suxs I should have won but I'll live to race again. I was going to buy a aftermarket rear this week so this speed up my desision.
https://youtu.be/T_XwgE1065s
may have to copy and past link. 12.15@110 1.64 60.
Here is better links of the vids. The car really is a competitive car I feel. Very consistant moving under 2 hund in 3 hits thoughout the day. first 2 linked below.
I must say I am really happy with the suspention mods ive done since the last times I raced. I noticed that my 60 foots are much better even then with 100hp shot of n20 and a turbo on the V6. Even back when I could pull 1.6xs with the V6 it didnt feel this good. It likes to lift the front and stay up. It goes straight and is easy to get going. The second vid you can see the front end comes up and stays all the way up. The first hit, it did dive a bit. I made a adjustment and feel it fixed the diving.
Back when i had mostly stock crap. The front end loved to come up and quickly take a immediate large dive and bounce back up... and sometimes back when I had a crappy auburn lsd in the rear it would even pull to one side. I remember the best 60 was a 1.58 iirc with the Turbo 6 and i thought i was going to drive into the wall....
There is no points racing this weekend for me so I figured I would tinker around. I am adding this main body into the Holley 750 DP I have right now not sure if it's going to gain any horsepower or anything but it definitely looks a lot better. For about $80 after the coupons I had from Summit I don't think you can go wrong.
Well I hope to go racing Sunday of the weather holds off. I was on the border of what I wanted to do with my car this winter coming up. I don't plan on messing with the current set up up till the points season is over. I'm just gathering parts slowly so I'm ready come September.
The proform body is on and feels more responsive.
I got a pair of Doug's full length headers coming today from summit. Currently I have some hooker shortie headers on the engine that came with the motor. They help with tq but top end it's choking me a lot.
My goal is to be on the bottom of our sportsman class time bracket next year(11.50). So I will be swapping out the tiny xe268 cam this fall along with tossing on the headers 1 3/4 and hopefully using my custom built PTC. 4500-5k converter.
I'm unsure of the cam I want though. Stuck between a xe284 and 294. I have dart heads with springs capable of .600 lift. I want the power range up there but don't want to totally kill my tq out of the whole. I feel shifting at 6000-6300 Is plenty sufficient.
Currently I shift at 5400 with the xe268 cam.
Right now I'm pulling 1.64 60 foots with the xe268 cam. And 3.23s out back. 3000 but really stalls at 3500 freakshow converter. 9.5 inch.
I played with my car today and ended up having a 35 and 37 squirter that helped my hesitation problem.
I also got the headers I am assuming that this Notch since it is a slip on primary for the one I am supposed to cut? It did not come with any instructions about it. The headers look very very nice I'm not going to put them in just yet but I don't see them being much of a problem except maybe some of the upper control arm a arm area.
these are 1 3/4. I have 1 5/8th currently and I'm hoping to help my 4k and up power range with these. Also want to put a 18 inch collector on each to help retain some tq in the mid area.... ideas on that? Does it help it is better to just run them open headers?
I got the one and three-quarter inch primaries because it is a 385 cubic inch engine that at least I would say has 400 horsepower. And I did want to do a turbo and everything else but I changed my mind and want to keep it naturally aspired just put in a larger cam larger stall converter and try to get into the 11.50 area if I can with all motor. And I also have a Moser 12 bolt ordered and coming. Hopefully here by the weeks end.
I have 1 3/4 long tubes with a .600 lift roller. Had the same thought about collector extensions. Nope made no difference at all. Added 6 inch race mufflers and picked up .03 consistently. Motor seemed to want some back pressure.
I have 1 3/4 long tubes with a .600 lift roller. Had the same thought about collector extensions. Nope made no difference at all. Added 6 inch race mufflers and picked up .03 consistently. Motor seemed to want some back pressure.
Nice. I may toss them on. I have 2 weeks off until the next points race.
I made it to the 3rd round today then fell asleep at the line and broke out .005 because of it. A 12.215 on a 12.22 dial. Cars consistent, which I really like.
first 2 elimination passes I peddled for the win but I got a lot of 1/8 mile slips to compare. 7.79 7.80 7.80 and 7.81. And 1/4 miles of 12.19 and 12.21.
60 foots were dead on the same evey run.
Although the v8s a lot slower it sure is much easier to race. Very happy about that.
Something i notice in your pic that really gets my attention. It appears to be blue sky and sunny! I have not raced since first weekend of april because of rain. Car looks awesome and am really digging the project.
Something i notice in your pic that really gets my attention. It appears to be blue sky and sunny! I have not raced since first weekend of april because of rain. Car looks awesome and am really digging the project.
we got lucky last Sunday because the rain stopped just in time for racing. That was only the second time I got to go because of the weather this spring.
it has been such a rainy year so far especially on race day
And thanks. The car has been very very fun so far this year to race
Well went faster today on accident. Serpentine belt broke so I ran with no power steering or alternator. Lost 2nd round because of this and the red light. Not too bad bad for 3.23 gears xe268 cam and shifting at 5200.
Finally tossed the dougs lt headers on. Sound and look very nice. Easy fit. No cutting of the k member to make them fit.
racing again tomorrow.
last 3 races I've won.... 2 rounds 2 rounds then 1 round. So the cars pretty consistent. When i lose its usially from a red light. I've had a few problems here and there with it but things to be expected from swapping a motor in so quickly. Fun fun car. Best so far... 11.97@112.5mph with a 1.64 60 foot. Not too bad for 3.23 gears. Shifting at 5200 and going though the traps at 5300 5400. The slip below is when my belt came off 2 cars from the burnout box. Didn't have time to fix it so I picked up a lot.
My expectations of the headers are not to make it faster. But if it does that's great. They are 1 3/4 compared to the 1 5/8 shorties. They look much better. Sound a ton better and also allow me a lot more room to change spark plugs.
Racing tomorrow as is but plan to weld up some 18 inch long turn down extensions.
11.63 and a 11.62. 1.59 and a 1.58 60 foot. She lightly pulls the drivers side tire but threw the rear view mirror off into my helment.. opps. I'll link the vid later. Not I just need to learn to not red light since it leaves so fast.
Looks like those headers made quite the difference.
Lots of great info here - I'm so subscribed.
I can't wait to see what happens after you change the cam, rear gears, and the converter.
Looks like those headers made quite the difference.
Lots of great info here - I'm so subscribed.
I can't wait to see what happens after you change the cam, rear gears, and the converter.
Thanks.
I definitely did not think the engine would ever go as fast as it has considering the cam..gears...exc. but its a fun ride. I ended up getting a xe284 cam and a vic. Jr intake but don't plan to install till late summer early fall as I'll be putting in the ptc 5k stall I have then as well. I would think that will help my et out a bit. Also I ordered a Moser 12 bolt with 4.11s cost alot but at least I finally have it coming. Should be here next week. That will hopefully go in at the same time as the cam, intake, and converter. I hope for low 11s with that set up if the car gods help me out a bit.
my wife saying yellow yellow yellow green... trying to help my camera man get the pic. Only works if I have a good rt..
Pulled some more 1.57-1.59 60 foots again. Got a vid and some pics as well. Lost 3rd round yesterday because of a red light.
We are going to start calling the "car dead on"...lol it went 11.715 on a 11.71 and a 11.718 on a 11.71. So dead on with a 5 and dead on with a 8 first 2 rounds. 3rd rou d 11.706 iirc on a 11.71.
Time trials it went 11.706 and 11.708
I would win every round with this thing if I could just figure out the tree.
Here are my terrible reaction times but thankfully my car got me through a few rounds because it only moved .009 of a sec. In 5 passes. Just amazing the consistency at the 1/4 mile.
Ever since the car has launched so hard I have had a terrible time getting consistent reaction times .
it definitely never pulled the wheels with the v6. Although I never got the opportunity to use the transbrake, which if I did I think it would have. Or it would have exploded the rear end.
My 60 foots with the 6 shooter were usually in the 1.70s because of the lag. But trapping 120mph use to really mess up some racers at the stripe. But that turbo sure was inconsistent. I'm really enjoying the consistency of the v8. And now that it's back into the solid 11s it's curbing my fixation to go fast for the time being...haha.
Well I had 2 weeks off racing and cleaned up the car alot. Also painted the hood black since the gel coat was looking pretty terrible from the sun.
Also got a killer deal on a scratch and dent special at summit on a UEI drag bar anti roll bar. So hopefully racing sunday to dial in the drag bar and get the car launching straight and even. Possible even beat the best 60 of a 1.57.
I do have a xe284 cam and lifter set in hand, rollers were just outta my budget. Also PTC is trading me my 9.5 inch custom billet converter I had made for the turbo V6(cost over 1k) for a new 8 inch stall. They are aiming at 4800-5000 stall with the new cam combo and 3.90 gears that Ill have when i toss this all in. If i keep doing ok at points then ill leave the car be till the season is over. I still have a chance to go to divisionals if i just win at least 2 rounds a week.... here is for hope!
I would win every round with this thing if I could just figure out the tree.
I'm a top bulb racer with a delay box but the same principal applies.
Humans are terrible timing devices. Since you say you have a transbrake, use it. Push the button as soon as you're staged. Take your foot off the brake pedal and put it over the throttle. As soon as you're both staged, push the throttle to the floor. The transbrake will hold the car and the engine rpm will come up to the converters stall speed or a lower rpm set by a starting line rev limiter if you have one.
Now come the tricky part. Ignore the top 2 yellow bulbs. Strictly concentrate on the bottom yellow. As soon as it comes on, let go of the transbrake button. By the time you and the car react, the green light should be on when you break the beam. If you watch the other yellow lights coming down and try to time yourself with them, you'll never get the same reaction.
If you don't use the transbrake then you need to bring the engine rpm up while on the brakes and try to keep the car from pushing through the brakes. Again when the last yellow comes on, let go of the brake pedal with the left foot while pushing the throttle to the floor at the same time with the other foot. Good reaction times can be done but there's too many things going to to be consistent every time.
yea sadly it is. It's the beefiest one you'll ever see but that doent change the ring gear size... but it's got 3.23 gears in it. Which are helping it survive for now. Moser 12 bolts going in this fall.
looks like the panhard bar is bent up In the middle or is it the picture? Have you considered a aftermarket adj one?
I really like the stability a rodended bar brought to the rear suspension, it doesn't feel so squirmy anymore.
looks like the panhard bar is bent up In the middle or is it the picture? Have you considered a aftermarket adj one?
I really like the stability a rodended bar brought to the rear suspension, it doesn't feel so squirmy anymore.
Yea I think it is bent slightly. Been like that since I got the car. Is a adjustable tubular one worth it's weight? Not sure on what the pan hard actually does.
Yes, I think its worth it. It keeps the rearend centered.
Ill have to look into getting one. I think it saw a used one for sale a week or so back.
Im excited my new PTC converter will be here tomorrow. 4800-4900 Rpm stall 8 inch. With the XE284 cam. 240/246 durr. at .050 .540/.544 lift with my 1.6 rockers. 110 lsa. Im excited to put that all in and hope for lower 11s on all motor. Hopefully its possible. 3.90 gear will be in the 12 bolt when it goes in as well. That combo hopefully keeps my rpms high but not too high. 6300-6500 though the traps but i have no idea to be honest. Its just a mathematical guess.....
I have 3 points races left. I'm not doing as good as i really needed a lot of wins yesterday but the rain stopped that from happening. If i don't do well at the next race or it rains out, ill be outta the divisional race for sure so i will go ahead and start tossing all the new stuff in to see what its capable this year.
yea sadly it is. It's the beefiest one you'll ever see but that doent change the ring gear size... but it's got 3.23 gears in it. Which are helping it survive for now. Moser 12 bolts going in this fall.
Well, you must be doing something right to keep it alive while running in the 11s.
Care to share any secrets?
Yea I think it is bent slightly. Been like that since I got the car. Is a adjustable tubular one worth it's weight? Not sure on what the pan hard actually does.
It sets the location of the rear end side-to-side in the wheel wells.
You need an adjustable panhard bar when you alter the height of the vehicle.
Well, you must be doing something right to keep it alive while running in the 11s.
Care to share any secrets?
The biggest thing I think that helped me was the girdle for bearing support. No crush sleave (solid spacer installed) and I welded the tubes 360 degrees... That stuff may have helped. And its a 3.23 gear which helps
The biggest thing I think that helped me was the girdle for bearing support. No crush sleave (solid spacer installed) and I welded the tubes 360 degrees... That stuff may have helped. And its a 3.23 gear which helps
Good. With the exception of welding the axle tubes, I plan on doing the same.
Good. With the exception of welding the axle tubes, I plan on doing the same.
I just knocked on some wood... but I've made at least 15 or 20 1.5x 60 foots now and hundreds of 1.60s and 1.70s with it. It may be a freak but it's been a good rear end for many years.
Well the plan was to have a moser 12 bolt a while ago... well things went wrong and that idea is just scratched. It was time to call who was highly recommended to me So today I called midwest chassis and after talking and hearing their advice, suspension stuff in the rear I already have, over all budget..exc we went with the S60 race package. Which has 35 spline pro race axles. Light weight steel spool. Of course 1350 joints. And after much deliberation I decided on 4.11 gear over 3.73s. Only because the way im setting up this engine for next spring the shift point will be 6500-6600rpm and guessing off trap mph that i want to obtain then, converter slip (which isnt much with the PTC im sure) and the fact that im running a 26 inch tall drag radial that hooks just fine, 4.11s will put me in the 6500-6700rpm area at 123-126mph which is about the fastest i think ill be able to do with this 385. With the current baby cam..small converter, im trapping 115mph Hopefully this gearing doesnt bit me in the butt like it did when I went from 3.73s to 3.23 because i was setting up the car better for a turbo. But i have no intentions of turboing this car, at least for a long time. Goal is to just have a consistant bracket car. And the rear end is a huge part of that.
(ET 11.60-70----1.57-1.60 60 foot)
Once I get it, this winter ill install it, and then see what length driveshaft it need. So now i just wait...... for this big *** box.
Will do. And I'll take plenty of pics. 2-3 weeks for delivery. I called today to pay for the strange brake kit and such. Itll be nice to have disc brakes all arround. I still need to toss on the areospace drag race front disk brake, caliper, and spindle package i have. That should take a good 40 or so lbs off the front of the car.
04-26-2017 | 04:49 PM
