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No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
Hey All,
Car in question is down in the sig. It has sadly been stored all winter under a car cover outside. It was running great when I put it away last fall. Went to start it last weekend and it cranks great, but it wouldn't start. Not even with starter fluid. I hear the fuel pump prime when I turn the key. Hooking a timing light up I get no flashes, which means no spark, and when I hook a node light up to a fuel injector I get no flashes, which means no injector pulse. I can smell NO fuel smell coming from the exhaust. Checked and I'm getting ballpark 40 PSI fuel pressure and it is holding for at least a few minuets.
Where it gets interesting when I popped the hood, I found 'someone' had been in there and took a good sized chunk of my under hood insulation and wadded it up in a ball under my intake manifold for a cozy place to hang out in the winter... Leads me to think whoever made themselves at home either bit through a wire, or at least made a connector come undone. I've been looking but haven't found anything yet. All my fuses in my fuse box check out as ok using my digital multi meter.
Please, if possible, give me specific places to look or tests to run, or links to places that give me such info. I have been searching for the last two days, but have not found anything that has helped me solve my issue yet.
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
I had a wire come loose last summer in that same neck of the woods but after looking I was unable to find anything wrong. I just put a new distributor in the car (including cap, rotor, and ICM) I would be surprised any of that would go bad so fast, I specifically bought a D.U.I unit because people said the ICM's from them held up better than most.
Either way the link looks good I'll work through it as soon as I can find a few min.
Also, a few other details that I just remembered from my testing this weekend. All of the fuel injectors connectors (both contacts) are lighting up a standard 12v test light. And neither of the smaller incoming wires to the coil seem to be hot (lighting up the test light) with the ignition on...
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
Well cr@p, I though I would look up my order date form the distributor, for possible warranty, and I guess I'm loosing my mind, it was ordered summer 2014. This is making me wonder if it is the ICM that wend bad. I think that would be most likely aside from an eaten through wire. I still find it hard to believe a) the ICM would go bad this soon, car has only had maybe 3-4000 miles on it since and b) the ICM would go bad just while sitting, I though it was heat that kills them.
I will still go through the testing in the link, but if it does end up being the ICM, which one actually lasts???? All I ever hear about is how terrible they all are...
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
Originally Posted by RBob
Skip the Delphi stuff, they are no longer owned by GM. Use AC Delco ICMs. Or, hit a u-pull-it yard and search for vehicles that either have low miles or a not-so-old distributor in it. Look for GM ICMs.
If looking at V8 engines, skip any module with 048 on it. The ones marked 369 are good modules to use.
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
Alright, so I spent an hour or two trying to trouble shoot today and have some new findings.
-I confirmed that I have no spark using a spark tester on the spark plug wire coming directly from the coil. (That gets me through page 4 of the diagnosis process in the link above)
-I confirmed I am getting 12V (~11.8) at the battery, and at the pink wire that usually goes into the coil.
-I am not getting any power to the orange wire that does go to my coil.
-Fuel pump does prime when key is turned (and I have plenty of fuel pressure)
-engine seems to crank with adequate speed
-Node lights say no injector pulse, but smell fuel out the exhaust??? see below.
This all has me wondering if there is something going on with my IGNITION BOX. It seems like there is power going in but no power going out... When the ignition is on though I see the red light on the back on.
Also, I am not smelling at least some gas out of the exhaust after craning the engine more. STRANGE THING IS, I have a node light set and trying either of the two node lights that have the correct connector, I don't get any flashing at least on all the injectors on the drivers side bank. HOW CAN THIS BE???
I do not have the wire jacket piercing accessory for my DVM. Does anyone have an alternative process to complete the rest of the testing without one? simply by disconnecting connectors and checking voltages at those points. You cant really even back probe most of these connectors since they are all molded as one piece.
I'm starting to think more and more about saying screw it and taking it to a shop, but there are no shops in the area I feel I can trust.... Any pointers or help would be greatly appreciated!
Last edited by raptere; 04-24-2017 at 09:19 AM.
Reason: Brain fart, calling the coil a capacitor....
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
The noid light blinking on one bank only. Have you checked the ohms of the injectors and the injector fuses ?
You can backprobe with a safety pin or paper clip.
Last edited by Tuned Performance; 04-23-2017 at 10:38 AM.
Reason: Spell checker
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
Originally Posted by Tuned Performance
The noid light blinking on one bank only. Have you checked the ohms of the injectors and the injector fuses ?
You can backprobe with a safety pin or paper clip.
I guess I wasn't very clear. I have not gotten the node light to blink at all. I only happened to test it from the driver side where I was inspecting all the ignition wiring back between the engine and the firewall. Can crappy Advance Autoparts note light kits sometimes just not work, or not flash bright enough to see in day light? Also are they directional, must the leads bee connected one way or the other?
Is it possible that after having the fuel pump prime so many times during testing that a bit of fuel is now just leaking past the injectors giving me my fuel smell. The smell is not super strong...
A lot of this is pointing towards my ICM and they are notorious for going out, so I'm thinking about just grabbing a new ACDelco one and trying it, if it doesn't help, then I'll have a spare for when it does go out...
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
Two new developments:
-Removed the ICM and brought it to advance auto... It passed with flying colors.
-When I removed the distributor cover there was a munch of motor oil all around the lower inside part. ICM was all oily, and it seemed most of the heat sink paste had been washed away by the oil.
Not sure where to go from here, could the pick up cool be the culprit? Still need to test it. Any thoughts on where the oil could be coming from?
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
That would be very strange, considering the distributor is only 3 years old and only has a couple thousand miles on it... Could there be some other reason for premature failure if that is in fact the case?
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
So after a lot of reading around the forums, I have come up with two new things to test/check. But I dont have a very good understanding of them.
Fuel Pump Rlay - If the pump is priming when I turn the key does this mean the relay is fine? I would think so.
The Oil Pressure Switch - from my reading if the switch is malfunctioning, it will never send an oil pressure signal to the computer which will never activate the injectors. Not certain how to check this switch though. Especially when the engine wont start to establish oil pressure... Or is this something that wont keep an engine from starting, but may cause it to stop once running?
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
So to confirm I'm reading this right. If I connect the orange to grey wires that would send the signal to the computer that the switch is reading 6 psi or more and enable the fuel pump, right? Should the orange be a +12v wire? Is it switched or no?
The Tan wire (to I/P) is just for the oil pressure gauge? What does I/P stand for?
Lastly, would it be possible for my fuel pump to still prime when I turn on the ignition, but for a faulty OPS to cause the fuel pump to not turn on for the engine to fire? When I was testing fuel pressure, the pressure was holding even while cranking, which would suggest the injectors are not firing right, which was what I though in the first place.
Last edited by raptere; 05-01-2017 at 11:53 AM.
Reason: Further thoughts
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
If you can hear the pump priming before you start the car, then the pump relay and ECM is not your issue. The oil pressure switch is a backup in the event of relay or ECM failure. You do not need it for normal driving.
If you want to test your pump, just put 12V on the gray wire at the relay. However, you are getting fuel pressure. If your pump and/or regulator was not working you would not get fuel pressure. I think your fuel system is fine.
I did not read that you ever resolved your spark issue. How do you know your coil is good? I would replace it. I do not fully trust the hi-lo-hi resistance testing the manual dictates. I just recently went through the no spark issue. Due to the low cost, and the apparent age of my components, I replaced all components- the pickup, module, and coil and it fired right up. I bought all ACDelco parts. There are very cheap parts out there that are not robust. I can only imagine what came inside your packaged distributor.
This is from my 1989 manual:
Last edited by Tootie Pang; 05-01-2017 at 12:24 PM.
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
I have mentioned it previously but I understand it's a lot read so the cliff notes are as follows. I removed the ICM and took it into the shop where they tested and it passes. I am not getting power to the orange wire going to the coil though. I have one of the crane cams hi-6 ignition boxes and their LX-92 coil. I would think I should be getting 12v to the orange wire but I cant figure out why. I think I see the other end of the orange wire coming from the wiring harness and I get 12 v at the weather pack connector by the battery, and at the wire going to the under hood light, which is also orange. (same wire?)
I kind of feel like I'm chasing my tail or going on a wild goose chase here... I did have some sort of animal get into the engine bay over winter, but I have yet to be able to find any damaged wires...
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
I will check the pick up coil tonight, and also my ignition manual says the status light should flash when cranking to show it is getting the signal from the pickup coil, or ICM, or something, so I'll check for that too.
Is it possible the oil that is all up in my distributor could be causing my pickup coil to be inoperable even if it is mechanically ok? Do I need to pull the distributor, tear it apart clean it all, and put it back together with a new distributor seal?
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
Well, that oil shouldn't be up there. I would suppose that eventually it will cause the module to fail but probably not immediately. And probably not degrade it, just fail.
I would pull the dist, clean it and replace the pickup coil. It's not hard.
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
It has been raining non stop since my last post, I really hope to get out under the hood tonight to start checking the next things off my diagnosis list...
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
So, I got a chance to test the pickup cool. Its reading between .32 and .35 V ac while cranking. Does that sound ok? The testing procedure says I should get between .3 and 1.8 V ac, so I'm not sure. I am using a digital volt meter, so maybe the refresh rate is just too slow to see the peak?
Secondly, the leaking oil issue. I pulled out the distributor and it has the one seal between the manifold and the flange of the distributor. Are there also supposed to be o-ring(s) somewhere? I wiped it all down and it looks pretty good.
I have video of the dvm/pickup coil while cranking. And pics of the new and old distributor, if any of that helps.
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
Well I just retested the pick up coil with the dizzy out of the engine, spinning the gear by hand. I also tested my old factory one. I was able to get both to read 1.8 V ac or more, which leads me to believe both pickup could are good. Right?
The more test, the more I think I have a loose wire or connector. I was talking to another gearhead at work today and we both agree if I can find the reason the coil orange power wire is not getting power I'll have my solution...
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
I'd really like to put the dizzy back in to continue trouble shooting, can anyone tell me anything about proper sealing for my dizzy? Just the gasket at the top, or should there have been o-ring(s) too???
Side note: I made a rookie mistake and pulled all the spark plug wires off the cap without marking any of them, am I going to be screwed when it comes to putting the wires back on?
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
Mine seen to look a little different than yours. Where should the ring(s) go? There were never any on my new or old one... One on right is new one on left is old. Both have the gasket near the top. Do distributors not come with them if needed? Again, this is a 1991 Z28 in case it makes a difference.
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
Originally Posted by raptere
Mine seen to look a little different than yours. Where should the ring(s) go? There were never any on my new or old one... One on right is new one on left is old. Both have the gasket near the top. Do distributors not come with them if needed? Again, this is a 1991 Z28 in case it makes a difference.
Darn it, I'm sorry. Those were to something else I wont mention!!!
Just the ring gasket at Manifold and Dizzy. My Bad....move along
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
So that brings me back to the question of why there was oil under the cap of the dizzy... It seems strange but I've tested each part in there and they're all good. Is a little oil up there alright/normal? Just want to make sure there isn't anything else I need to be dealing with before putting everything back in the engine and moving on.
Actually, no one has verified that my test results for the pickup coil are acceptable. I just suspected it was ok. I would really like to confirm that before putting everything back together.
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
Hmmmm, so I've posted a link to the dizzy I'm using. It was installed two summers ago, and the car honestly has maybe 1500 miles on it, at most. I would think something like end play is factory set no? Should I have checked it? Does this sound like a manufacturing defect if this is happening so soon, with so little use. The GM dizzy I took out was rusty but bone dry, and it had 140k on it to my knowledge, 35k at the very least I'm sure about.
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
I would contact Davis unified and see if they will warranty it. End play should be about .014 . Some aftermarket such as mad uses a bearing instead of a bushing that's replaceable.
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
Well I just found this on the Davis Unified website. See topic 4 about oil under the cap. It seems like the oil issue may be more of a crank case pressure/ventilation issue, more than a failed part. I'll also go back and double check there info for the no fire tips.
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
OK, so a few more diagnostic test results to share:
- I learned about that fuse that hides out in the fender well next to the battery that has something to do with the ECM or Fuel pump. It is fine.
- I checked the resistance on my pickup coil. It is 768 ohms. DUI specifies the one that comes in their distributors should be between 800 and 910 ohms, but I don't feel like it is low enough to be the cause of these problems. The standard ones from Wells say they should be between 683-984 ohms. I'm thinking 768 may not be optimal, but shouldn't be the reason for my problems.
- I checked the Crane Cams LX92 coil primary and secondary resistance were 0.5 and 844 ohms respectively. Primary is rated as 0.23, but my DMM only reads to one decimal anyway. That seems pretty close. The secondary resistance is rated at 920 ohms, but again 844 doesn't seem off far enough to be the source of my problems...
If you disagree with anything I've said above please replay and explain why.
After that I went back and checked both the black and orange wires that go to the coil, which after retracing the wire, I realize comes straight from the ignition box... Neither has power with the ignition on. Should I be testing these wires while cranking? Or if there is no power with the ignition on that is a red flag... I know the ignition box is getting power because when I turn the ignition on the status led on the back lights up.
At this point I'm planning to put the distributor back together and reinstall it, and keep looking elsewhere, especially the wiring for and the ignition box itself. Also, while the oil in under the cap does concern me. I want to get the engine running first, then I can go back and trouble shoot the distributor more in depth.
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
I was going to inspect the PCV valve and system to make sure it is not plugged up somewhere, but you're right for testing purposes I can just pull it out all together and deal with it later. If I get it running, am I going to end up with oil spraying out of the hole in the valve cover?
Re: No spark, no injector pulse, no start, and it's SO nice outside! Help!!!
Well I went ahead and put everything back together, then cranked it just for the neck of it, and wouldn't you know it, SHE FIRED UP!!! I set timing to about 14 deg, and she has been runing great! At this point I'm not exactly what the deal was, but for now I'm a happy man!
Problem thought was while setting the timing I saw a decent amount of coolant leaking from the water pump. I guess it's time to change that...
04-17-2017, 09:34 AM
