BMR MBK001 manual master
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BMR MBK001 manual master
Who is using BMR MBK001 manual master?
Description is for 93-02, and when I emailed BMR they said "The firewall is different so people must be modifying it".
Can someone confirm?
I intend on running it with stock front delco calipers and rear PBR's.
-- Joe
Description is for 93-02, and when I emailed BMR they said "The firewall is different so people must be modifying it".
Can someone confirm?
I intend on running it with stock front delco calipers and rear PBR's.
-- Joe
Last edited by anesthes; 09-03-2016 at 09:06 PM.
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Re: BMR MKB001 manual master
All I can offer is that I'm using 4th Gen booster in my 92 and just had to enlarge 2 of the holes, iirc the top ones, to bolt it on.
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Re: BMR MKB001 manual master
I'm waiting for my adapters to show up, then I'll get everything bent up and moved over to the firewall.
Gonna do like a 6:1 pedal ratio. Hopefully it will be nice.
-- Joe
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Re: BMR MKB001 manual master
So. I took this out of the shop today and I didn't even feel comfortable leaving my neighborhood. The pedal feels bled, but must be pressed as hard to the floor as possible to stop. I don't mean that it's hard to press, simply that it does nothing for the first 3/4 travel.
This is stock calipers, pads ( all new), earls hoses, all new lines front and rear. I moved the pivot point about an inch.
I wonder if the ratio isn't providing enough travel?
-- Joe
This is stock calipers, pads ( all new), earls hoses, all new lines front and rear. I moved the pivot point about an inch.
I wonder if the ratio isn't providing enough travel?
-- Joe
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Re: BMR MKB001 manual master
So. I took this out of the shop today and I didn't even feel comfortable leaving my neighborhood. The pedal feels bled, but must be pressed as hard to the floor as possible to stop. I don't mean that it's hard to press, simply that it does nothing for the first 3/4 travel.
This is stock calipers, pads ( all new), earls hoses, all new lines front and rear. I moved the pivot point about an inch.
I wonder if the ratio isn't providing enough travel?
-- Joe
This is stock calipers, pads ( all new), earls hoses, all new lines front and rear. I moved the pivot point about an inch.
I wonder if the ratio isn't providing enough travel?
-- Joe
Best option is to buy new AFCO stock replacement calipers.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/afc-6635003/reviews/
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/afc-6635004/reviews/
These calipers are NON low drag, normal calipers and will work with strait bore master cylinders.
Once you get the AFCO calipers installed, you will have a very firm pedal, but with the large bore master cylinder, your brake system will may build pressure to effectively stop the car. If this is the case, you may need to reduce the size of your master cylinder to a 7/8" bore or 24mm bore depending on what rear brakes you are using.
What is your rear brake setup? If disc, what rear caliper are you using?
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Re: BMR MKB001 manual master
If you have stock, from the factory calipers, they are LOW drag and need a step bore master cylinder to function correctly. This is why you get about 3/4 of travel before you get some pedal pressure. LOW drag calipers require more fluid to work correctly. The strait bore 1.03" bore master cylinder included in the kit is filling up the LOW drag calipers first, then starting to apply pressure in the system after the calipers fill up with the volume of fluid they need.
Best option is to buy new AFCO stock replacement calipers.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/afc-6635003/reviews/
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/afc-6635004/reviews/
These calipers are NON low drag, normal calipers and will work with strait bore master cylinders.
Once you get the AFCO calipers installed, you will have a very firm pedal, but with the large bore master cylinder, your brake system will may build pressure to effectively stop the car. If this is the case, you may need to reduce the size of your master cylinder to a 7/8" bore or 24mm bore depending on what rear brakes you are using.
What is your rear brake setup? If disc, what rear caliper are you using?
Best option is to buy new AFCO stock replacement calipers.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/afc-6635003/reviews/
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/afc-6635004/reviews/
These calipers are NON low drag, normal calipers and will work with strait bore master cylinders.
Once you get the AFCO calipers installed, you will have a very firm pedal, but with the large bore master cylinder, your brake system will may build pressure to effectively stop the car. If this is the case, you may need to reduce the size of your master cylinder to a 7/8" bore or 24mm bore depending on what rear brakes you are using.
What is your rear brake setup? If disc, what rear caliper are you using?
I ordered some speedmaster calipers which are supposedly not a low-drag design:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Big-Bo...per,25158.html
So hopefully that will solve the problem.
My rear calipers are PBR from like a 93-94.
-- Joe
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Re: BMR MKB001 manual master
Hello,
I ordered some speedmaster calipers which are supposedly not a low-drag design:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Big-Bo...per,25158.html
So hopefully that will solve the problem.
My rear calipers are PBR from like a 93-94.
-- Joe
I ordered some speedmaster calipers which are supposedly not a low-drag design:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Big-Bo...per,25158.html
So hopefully that will solve the problem.
My rear calipers are PBR from like a 93-94.
-- Joe
Can you post up pictures of those calipers once you get them?
Here are the Wilwood version.
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Re: BMR MBK001 manual master
The calipers measure out to 2.55/2.56, about .200 larger than stock.
-- Joe
-- Joe
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Re: BMR MBK001 manual master
I have used those calipers with a 7/8" bore master cylinder and had good results.
The 1.03" bore master cylinder that you have will give a firm pedal, but the clamping force at the front and rear calipers will be low and you most likely find it hard for the car to stop.
I would start with a 7/8" bore master cylinder and if you feel that you are not getting the volume you need, step up to a 24mm or 15/16" bore master cylinder. Smaller bores will give you higher brake line pressure and more clamping force at the calipers.
Double check your pushrod alignment with your current setup. Because of the design of the 3rd and 4th gen F-body's brake pedal assembly, the brake pedal arm is pointing strait down at the floor board when it is not being pressed. If your push rod is set up going strait into the master cylinder when the brake pedal is not being pressed, then the piston travel of the master cylinder will be reduced as the brake pedal is pressed.
As the brake pedal goes through its range of motion, the pin in the brake pedal arm that the push rod attaches to will arc up and away from the master cylinder piston. It is easier to see this than write about it. Bottom line is that at the end of the pedal stroke, your brake pedal will be moving 2 to 3 inches, but your master cylinder piston will not be moving much at all.
The push rod will need to be level with the piston of the master cylinder when it is at the end of the pedal stroke. The stroke of the master cylinder piston only needs to travel about 1 inch in distance to supply the volume of fluid needed for the calipers.
I would set up the pin location on your pedal like this. This will be easier to do with the pedal assembly out of the car and the manual brake conversion mocked up on the bench.
1. Have the brake pedal at the resting (NON pressed) position.
2. Unhook the pushrod from the master cylinder.
3. Using a long, thin wood dowel (about the same diameter as the push rod), have the wood dowel come strait out of the master cylinder. Wood dowel should be positioned against the center of the master cylinder piston.
4. Mark on the wood dowel where it intersects the middle of the pedal arm.
5. Remove the wood dowel and measure one inch on the dowel from where you marked on the dowel. Make the one inch mark towards the direction of the master cylinder piston.
6. Install the wood dowel back up against the piston like it was previously and have it come strait out the back of the master cylinder centered on the master cylinder piston.
7. Press in the brake pedal.
8. While keeping the dowel level with the master cylinder, mark on the brake pedal arm where the middle of the dowel intersects the brake pedal arm at the one inch mark.
9. This is where you should drill your hole for your pin.
What I wrote is most likely clear as mud. Let me know if you have additional questions.
The 1.03" bore master cylinder that you have will give a firm pedal, but the clamping force at the front and rear calipers will be low and you most likely find it hard for the car to stop.
I would start with a 7/8" bore master cylinder and if you feel that you are not getting the volume you need, step up to a 24mm or 15/16" bore master cylinder. Smaller bores will give you higher brake line pressure and more clamping force at the calipers.
Double check your pushrod alignment with your current setup. Because of the design of the 3rd and 4th gen F-body's brake pedal assembly, the brake pedal arm is pointing strait down at the floor board when it is not being pressed. If your push rod is set up going strait into the master cylinder when the brake pedal is not being pressed, then the piston travel of the master cylinder will be reduced as the brake pedal is pressed.
As the brake pedal goes through its range of motion, the pin in the brake pedal arm that the push rod attaches to will arc up and away from the master cylinder piston. It is easier to see this than write about it. Bottom line is that at the end of the pedal stroke, your brake pedal will be moving 2 to 3 inches, but your master cylinder piston will not be moving much at all.
The push rod will need to be level with the piston of the master cylinder when it is at the end of the pedal stroke. The stroke of the master cylinder piston only needs to travel about 1 inch in distance to supply the volume of fluid needed for the calipers.
I would set up the pin location on your pedal like this. This will be easier to do with the pedal assembly out of the car and the manual brake conversion mocked up on the bench.
1. Have the brake pedal at the resting (NON pressed) position.
2. Unhook the pushrod from the master cylinder.
3. Using a long, thin wood dowel (about the same diameter as the push rod), have the wood dowel come strait out of the master cylinder. Wood dowel should be positioned against the center of the master cylinder piston.
4. Mark on the wood dowel where it intersects the middle of the pedal arm.
5. Remove the wood dowel and measure one inch on the dowel from where you marked on the dowel. Make the one inch mark towards the direction of the master cylinder piston.
6. Install the wood dowel back up against the piston like it was previously and have it come strait out the back of the master cylinder centered on the master cylinder piston.
7. Press in the brake pedal.
8. While keeping the dowel level with the master cylinder, mark on the brake pedal arm where the middle of the dowel intersects the brake pedal arm at the one inch mark.
9. This is where you should drill your hole for your pin.
What I wrote is most likely clear as mud. Let me know if you have additional questions.
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Re: BMR MBK001 manual master
I have used those calipers with a 7/8" bore master cylinder and had good results.
The 1.03" bore master cylinder that you have will give a firm pedal, but the clamping force at the front and rear calipers will be low and you most likely find it hard for the car to stop.
I would start with a 7/8" bore master cylinder and if you feel that you are not getting the volume you need, step up to a 24mm or 15/16" bore master cylinder. Smaller bores will give you higher brake line pressure and more clamping force at the calipers.
Double check your pushrod alignment with your current setup. Because of the design of the 3rd and 4th gen F-body's brake pedal assembly, the brake pedal arm is pointing strait down at the floor board when it is not being pressed. If your push rod is set up going strait into the master cylinder when the brake pedal is not being pressed, then the piston travel of the master cylinder will be reduced as the brake pedal is pressed.
As the brake pedal goes through its range of motion, the pin in the brake pedal arm that the push rod attaches to will arc up and away from the master cylinder piston. It is easier to see this than write about it. Bottom line is that at the end of the pedal stroke, your brake pedal will be moving 2 to 3 inches, but your master cylinder piston will not be moving much at all.
The push rod will need to be level with the piston of the master cylinder when it is at the end of the pedal stroke. The stroke of the master cylinder piston only needs to travel about 1 inch in distance to supply the volume of fluid needed for the calipers.
I would set up the pin location on your pedal like this. This will be easier to do with the pedal assembly out of the car and the manual brake conversion mocked up on the bench.
1. Have the brake pedal at the resting (NON pressed) position.
2. Unhook the pushrod from the master cylinder.
3. Using a long, thin wood dowel (about the same diameter as the push rod), have the wood dowel come strait out of the master cylinder. Wood dowel should be positioned against the center of the master cylinder piston.
4. Mark on the wood dowel where it intersects the middle of the pedal arm.
5. Remove the wood dowel and measure one inch on the dowel from where you marked on the dowel. Make the one inch mark towards the direction of the master cylinder piston.
6. Install the wood dowel back up against the piston like it was previously and have it come strait out the back of the master cylinder centered on the master cylinder piston.
7. Press in the brake pedal.
8. While keeping the dowel level with the master cylinder, mark on the brake pedal arm where the middle of the dowel intersects the brake pedal arm at the one inch mark.
9. This is where you should drill your hole for your pin.
What I wrote is most likely clear as mud. Let me know if you have additional questions.
The 1.03" bore master cylinder that you have will give a firm pedal, but the clamping force at the front and rear calipers will be low and you most likely find it hard for the car to stop.
I would start with a 7/8" bore master cylinder and if you feel that you are not getting the volume you need, step up to a 24mm or 15/16" bore master cylinder. Smaller bores will give you higher brake line pressure and more clamping force at the calipers.
Double check your pushrod alignment with your current setup. Because of the design of the 3rd and 4th gen F-body's brake pedal assembly, the brake pedal arm is pointing strait down at the floor board when it is not being pressed. If your push rod is set up going strait into the master cylinder when the brake pedal is not being pressed, then the piston travel of the master cylinder will be reduced as the brake pedal is pressed.
As the brake pedal goes through its range of motion, the pin in the brake pedal arm that the push rod attaches to will arc up and away from the master cylinder piston. It is easier to see this than write about it. Bottom line is that at the end of the pedal stroke, your brake pedal will be moving 2 to 3 inches, but your master cylinder piston will not be moving much at all.
The push rod will need to be level with the piston of the master cylinder when it is at the end of the pedal stroke. The stroke of the master cylinder piston only needs to travel about 1 inch in distance to supply the volume of fluid needed for the calipers.
I would set up the pin location on your pedal like this. This will be easier to do with the pedal assembly out of the car and the manual brake conversion mocked up on the bench.
1. Have the brake pedal at the resting (NON pressed) position.
2. Unhook the pushrod from the master cylinder.
3. Using a long, thin wood dowel (about the same diameter as the push rod), have the wood dowel come strait out of the master cylinder. Wood dowel should be positioned against the center of the master cylinder piston.
4. Mark on the wood dowel where it intersects the middle of the pedal arm.
5. Remove the wood dowel and measure one inch on the dowel from where you marked on the dowel. Make the one inch mark towards the direction of the master cylinder piston.
6. Install the wood dowel back up against the piston like it was previously and have it come strait out the back of the master cylinder centered on the master cylinder piston.
7. Press in the brake pedal.
8. While keeping the dowel level with the master cylinder, mark on the brake pedal arm where the middle of the dowel intersects the brake pedal arm at the one inch mark.
9. This is where you should drill your hole for your pin.
What I wrote is most likely clear as mud. Let me know if you have additional questions.
I will check the rod tomorrow, but I'm at a loss here. I expected a more firm pedal.
Any chance the rear PBR brakes are causing an issue?
-- Joe
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Re: BMR MBK001 manual master
I wasn't aware of that. Perhaps they are in fact 2.75" then. The stock pistons (at the pad end) measured about 2.36", so either way they are bigger.
I bled and bled and bled these things, but I still have a soft pedal and it doesn't clamp unless I hold it to the very bottom. I double checked my rod, and it is 1" higher than the stock which should be 6:1 ratio, but either way the problem seems more like air trapped.
-- Joe
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Re: BMR MBK001 manual master
So.. I'm wondering if I caused a problem when I discarded the factory combo/prop valve.
Right now I have the rear port of the master going to a linelock, and then the linelock splits off and feeds each front wheel.
The front port goes to the Y block on the rear axle, and feeds both rear BPR calipers (93-97 style)
I wonder if I need a pair of risidual valves, one for each circuit...
-- Joe
Right now I have the rear port of the master going to a linelock, and then the linelock splits off and feeds each front wheel.
The front port goes to the Y block on the rear axle, and feeds both rear BPR calipers (93-97 style)
I wonder if I need a pair of risidual valves, one for each circuit...
-- Joe
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Re: BMR MBK001 manual master
If you moved the push rod up on the pedal with out moving the master cylinder up on the firewall, the last half of your pedal stroke it not moving the master cylinder piston much at all because the the pin that holds the push rod to the pedal is moving up and away from the master cylinder piston.
Your pushrod will need to be in a strait line (inline) with the master cylinder piston when the brake pedal pad is pressed about 5 inches from its resting (unpressed) position. You will have a slight downward angle to the push rod when the pedal is in its resting position and when the pedal is in its fully pressed position, the push rod will be inline with the master cylinder piston. This is the only way you will get the inch of travel needed to move the volume of brake fluid needed to fill the calipers up with fluid.
Your pushrod will need to be in a strait line (inline) with the master cylinder piston when the brake pedal pad is pressed about 5 inches from its resting (unpressed) position. You will have a slight downward angle to the push rod when the pedal is in its resting position and when the pedal is in its fully pressed position, the push rod will be inline with the master cylinder piston. This is the only way you will get the inch of travel needed to move the volume of brake fluid needed to fill the calipers up with fluid.
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Re: BMR MBK001 manual master
If you moved the push rod up on the pedal with out moving the master cylinder up on the firewall, the last half of your pedal stroke it not moving the master cylinder piston much at all because the the pin that holds the push rod to the pedal is moving up and away from the master cylinder piston.
I checked my rod again. I did drill the hole 1" up as per BMR instructions. I was tempted to try it in the stock location, but found out tonight that I can't even get the rod to angle down low enough to go to the stock location.
I can measure the travel tomorrow. You say an inch total?
-- Joe
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Re: BMR MBK001 manual master
Yes. 1 inch travel at the pin
From your picture, it looks as if the pushrod is in the correct location for your setup
From your picture, it looks as if the pushrod is in the correct location for your setup
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Re: BMR MBK001 manual master
I saw you posted this on your thread:
Part Number: NM1983
Weight: 4.08lbs
Warranty: Limited Lifetime
Application: Except Turbo
With 15" wheels
Notes: With reservoir
Installation Hardware Included: Yes
Item Grade: OEM Standard
Master Cylinder Bore Diameter (in): 0.9439
Master Cylinder Color / Finish: Metallic
Master Cylinder Material: Aluminum or Cast Iron
Master Cylinder Port Sizes: Primary 0.375"-24 , Secondary 0.375"-24
Master Cylinder Reservoir Included: Yes
Package Contents: New Brake Master Cylinder, Reservoir, Bleeder Kit
Product Condition: New
-- Joe
Last edited by anesthes; 09-11-2016 at 06:24 AM.
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Re: BMR MBK001 manual master
To test your current master cylinder, plug both ports of the master cylinder and slowly pump the pedal. If the pedal gets very firm with little movement, hold the pedal down with some pressure for about 45 seconds. If it slowly sinks to the floor, it is bad.
For aluminum master cylinders, use the following part numbers:
These master cylinders have 3/8-24 inverted flare outlets.
Dorman M39451 is a 7/8" bore ALUMINUM master cylinder
Cardone 132412 is a 24mm bore ALUMINUM master cylinder
For aluminum master cylinders, use the following part numbers:
These master cylinders have 3/8-24 inverted flare outlets.
Dorman M39451 is a 7/8" bore ALUMINUM master cylinder
Cardone 132412 is a 24mm bore ALUMINUM master cylinder
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Re: BMR MBK001 manual master
Joe, it isn't going to be that the MC bore is too small. A smaller bore will move less fluid and put the pedal further down to the floor.
Most likely there is air trapped someplace in the system. A couple of years ago I went through the same thing on a manual brake 4 wheel disc car. No amount of pedal pumping, vacuum bleeding, or gravity bleeding would get the air out.
Had a low soft pedal. I finally built a pressure bleeder and that did the trick. During bleeding a fine stream of the smallest bubbles I've ever seen was exiting the system.
Pressurized at 15 psi the fluid was moved rather quickly though the system. This allowed it to compress the air bubbles and move them out.
RBob.
Most likely there is air trapped someplace in the system. A couple of years ago I went through the same thing on a manual brake 4 wheel disc car. No amount of pedal pumping, vacuum bleeding, or gravity bleeding would get the air out.
Had a low soft pedal. I finally built a pressure bleeder and that did the trick. During bleeding a fine stream of the smallest bubbles I've ever seen was exiting the system.
Pressurized at 15 psi the fluid was moved rather quickly though the system. This allowed it to compress the air bubbles and move them out.
RBob.
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Re: BMR MBK001 manual master
Joe, it isn't going to be that the MC bore is too small. A smaller bore will move less fluid and put the pedal further down to the floor.
Most likely there is air trapped someplace in the system. A couple of years ago I went through the same thing on a manual brake 4 wheel disc car. No amount of pedal pumping, vacuum bleeding, or gravity bleeding would get the air out.
Had a low soft pedal. I finally built a pressure bleeder and that did the trick. During bleeding a fine stream of the smallest bubbles I've ever seen was exiting the system.
Pressurized at 15 psi the fluid was moved rather quickly though the system. This allowed it to compress the air bubbles and move them out.
RBob.
Most likely there is air trapped someplace in the system. A couple of years ago I went through the same thing on a manual brake 4 wheel disc car. No amount of pedal pumping, vacuum bleeding, or gravity bleeding would get the air out.
Had a low soft pedal. I finally built a pressure bleeder and that did the trick. During bleeding a fine stream of the smallest bubbles I've ever seen was exiting the system.
Pressurized at 15 psi the fluid was moved rather quickly though the system. This allowed it to compress the air bubbles and move them out.
RBob.
I bought a new 24mm master today, and started taking the rod off the pedal to dissasemble. I noticed that my pedal was returning about 3/4" away from the brake light switch. I found it odd, but thought nothing of it initially.
I removed the master from the firewall and went to pull the rod out and I couldn't. I had to put the master in a vise and slide-hammer it out.
It then dawned on me, when i initially put the rod in it wasn't seated all the way. The rubber gromet just behind the ball was keeping it from seating. The first hard pump with the pedal seated it, and thereby reduced the travel of the brake pedal.
My guess is that it was getting maybe 1/2 the travel it was supposed to.
Compounded by the fact that I initially "bench bled" it hooked to the firewall with a pedal, I probably never got all the air out of it.
I decided to move forward and install the 24MM (.944") master. (the original was 1.032".
You're suggesting I use my pneumatic brake bleeder? How did your pressure bleeder work?
Otherwise I was gonna wait for the wife to get home tonight and ask her to kindly sit in the vehicle for an hour again
-- Joe
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, LT1
Transmission: TKX, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, 3.23
Re: BMR MBK001 manual master
Ok, got it bled and have a nice pedal now.
But now it won't always return, because the heim joint is binding on the arm of the pedal. You can't make this stuff up..
I think my hole is too far back, and the heim joint is fat so it's rubbing against it in the arc. wtf.
So. Either double up on the washers, or grind the heim joint down a wee. Maybe both.
I'm also tempted to tack weld the nut on the pedal arm as it's a pita unbolting it.
-- Joe
But now it won't always return, because the heim joint is binding on the arm of the pedal. You can't make this stuff up..
I think my hole is too far back, and the heim joint is fat so it's rubbing against it in the arc. wtf.
So. Either double up on the washers, or grind the heim joint down a wee. Maybe both.
I'm also tempted to tack weld the nut on the pedal arm as it's a pita unbolting it.
-- Joe
#22
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, LT1
Transmission: TKX, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, 3.23
Re: BMR MBK001 manual master
So the heim joint itself is just junk. It's hard to rotate, so when the bolt is tight it doesn't return the pedal all the way. If you leave the bolt loose, it rotates around the pedal returns fine.
-- Joe
-- Joe
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