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Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
I have a black passenger side door panel off of one of my old Camaro's, it was an '87 if memory serves me correctly. I can look around for other interior pieces if you need Dave, whatever I have left, if you need, you can have, just pay shipping...
all the parts i need are big stuff dash door panels console etc so shipping would prolly be expensive , when i bought the car years ago somone had already changed the carpet and plastics from red to black .
the dash is cracked , driver seat is torn , no headliner
i think i can just dye my door panels black they are in really good shape, not sure what im going to do about the dash and console just yet , might do a 4th gen console as that will be easier to get locally , though there is a guy 2 blocks over that bought a 3rdgen to turn into a dirt track car , i might have to stop by and see if he has any interior parts hes getting rid of
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Hey Dave, do you have any datalogs on the engine yet? Some of us can calculate horsepower via fueling ya know, no need to wait for dyno's and track days. Throw up some tuning vids, I wanna see that megasquirt in action bro...
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
Hey Dave, do you have any datalogs on the engine yet? Some of us can calculate horsepower via fueling ya know, no need to wait for dyno's and track days. Throw up some tuning vids, I wanna see that megasquirt in action bro...
i just fixed the flexplate , so i should start driving it again soon. time is limited right now its just about time to start cutting and bailing up the 1st alfalfa crops
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by project89
i just fixed the flexplate , so i should start driving it again soon. time is limited right now its just about time to start cutting and bailing up the 1st alfalfa crops
Been through two flexplates myself with this turbo, first time broke a bolt taking it off, almost lost my damn head when I heard it snap.
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
tunerstudio will actually calculate it right in the data logs.
im sure its not supper acurate as injectors have different opening and closing rates , and ms data logs shows the entire pulsewidth even when no fuel is being sprayed , though the percentage of time the injector isnt actually spraying fuel is very very very short out of the overall pulsewidth time
60# = 640 Horsepower @ 80% DC
70# = 750 Horsepower @ 80% DC
interesting. Doign the math shows 70lb/hr converting 60lb @ 43.5psi to 58psi. But injector data shows 72.021 boost referenced 1:1 as a zero'd out value.
So a 70lb @ 58 FP between 50-59% DC I'm at 470 - 555hp. Def going to have to look at my log when I get home. Does BSFC efficency change with boost?
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by customblackbird
Just checked my log. Apparently I have injector flow rate at 72.05lb.
52.5 INJ Duty %
4463 Rpms
8.1psi or 156.7 kpa
70lb at 58psi
11.79:1 AFR
14* total spark
68.6% throttle
if fuel presure is going up 1-1 with boost then u use ur base fuel presure number as the boost presure in the runner counteracts the increase in fuel presure , at 1-1 rising rate ur injectors flow the same
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by customblackbird
Just checked my log. Apparently I have injector flow rate at 72.05lb.
52.5 INJ Duty %
4463 Rpms
8.1psi or 156.7 kpa
70lb at 58psi
11.79:1 AFR
14* total spark
68.6% throttle
You're making excellent power at low boost and very conservative timing of 14*. Normally we pull 1 to 2 degrees of timing for every pound of boost from total, so if your total is 36*, you should be closer to 20* of timing at 8-psi of boost pressure. Also, the numbers I quoted at 80% duty cycle are only those if you stay at 8-psi of boost pressure, they will be much greater as boost increases. You got yourself one hell of a build there. Now I want to see it lol. Hit me up one night and we'll compare setups in person...
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Ls is different they usually like 28 deg total all motor stockish
Mid teens timing is generally safe for 8-12 psi and still make decent power. Seen 5.3's make 400's at the tire on low 8-9 psi boost. Seen ls1's do 450-500 whp on 10-12 psi depending on the power adder type
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
That is really strange. When I had my old LS1 F-Body the idle state was around 22* stock, and wide open throttle was closer to 40* from what the tuning was showing me back then. I had to look for a stock timing table just to be able to confirm that, and I came across one that Orion posted for a 2001 WS6 Trans Am...;
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by project89
if fuel presure is going up 1-1 with boost then u use ur base fuel presure number as the boost presure in the runner counteracts the increase in fuel presure , at 1-1 rising rate ur injectors flow the same
Yup! I even put a 1 way vacuum valve inline to the FPR so it only see's boost to rise the FP rate at 1:1. I realized I had set all the injector flow to constant 72lb and then it was pulling like 5-8psi at idle with engine vacuum. The valve now keeps it at 58psi at idle and only lets positive pressure through to the regulator.
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
You're making excellent power at low boost and very conservative timing of 14*. Normally we pull 1 to 2 degrees of timing for every pound of boost from total, so if your total is 36*, you should be closer to 20* of timing at 8-psi of boost pressure. Also, the numbers I quoted at 80% duty cycle are only those if you stay at 8-psi of boost pressure, they will be much greater as boost increases. You got yourself one hell of a build there. Now I want to see it lol. Hit me up one night and we'll compare setups in person...
Car feels strong but I wasn't sure how strong it really was. The thing with the SC is that it will eat 50hp at full boost. I run conservative timing as I'm still tuning it and wanted to make sure I didnt get overly pedal happy and blow it lol. I would hope to get timing to 18* at WOT if possible but I have it pulling timing due to high IATs, 140ish cruising and saw it hit 160*F at 8psi in a short boost run. Hopefully the FMIC and 2 meth nozzles will solve that and I'll Zero out the IAT retard below 120*F.
ITs funny you talk about stock timing tables. I saved my 99 5.3 base tune and the main spark table had only like 9* at WOT lol... but their are a ton of adders/tq management etc that would prob bump that up. I was just shocked to see it that low on the main spark table.
The supercharger i run is all out of steam by 650-700hp so its a low rpm boost maker which makes it more fun on the street. I can be in boost by 1700rpms and ive seen it lol. Boost should be between 10-12psi on the stock motor, now with the FMIC i'm assuming some pressure drop but even if it stays at 8psi its a cooler charge plus the meth will allow more timing.
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
Ls is different they usually like 28 deg total all motor stockish
Mid teens timing is generally safe for 8-12 psi and still make decent power. Seen 5.3's make 400's at the tire on low 8-9 psi boost. Seen ls1's do 450-500 whp on 10-12 psi depending on the power adder type
This is what I've read and heard, hence the 15* commanded timing. I would love to bump it to 18* but will see how it looks IAT wise. LS motors like more inital timing but less overall timing... prob due to how efficient they are.
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
A lot of it has to do with cam specs and air flow, just like the SBC's. Timing tables are very different when comparing stock TBI's to TPI's, yet both are SBC's, so we can't imply both when we say SBC. So when we say LSX, it honestly depends on what came with it stock, as I'm sure they too differ. But anyways, I'm literally ten minutes from Englishtown Raceway Park in Central Jersey, but I take the GTA all over...
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
That is really strange. When I had my old LS1 F-Body the idle state was around 22* stock, and wide open throttle was closer to 40* from what the tuning was showing me back then. I had to look for a stock timing table just to be able to confirm that, and I came across one that Orion posted for a 2001 WS6 Trans Am...;
It only goes that high in light load cruise areas like any other application. Wot in there is mid high 20's as wot only hits .60-.70 grams cyl air flow. More modded .80-.90's
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
It only goes that high in light load cruise areas like any other application. Wot in there is mid high 20's as wot only hits .60-.70 grams cyl air flow. More modded .80-.90's
No. You're referring to a naturally aspirated engine that was never intended for boost pressure. The moment boost is realized in any engine 100-kpa is immediately realized, whether you measure kpa or g/sec, 1 Bar is already maximized. We pull one to two degrees of timing from that point, not from an earlier point.
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by customblackbird
This is what I've read and heard, hence the 15* commanded timing. I would love to bump it to 18* but will see how it looks IAT wise. LS motors like more inital timing but less overall timing... prob due to how efficient they are.
You have to remember that we are referring to only 8 pounds of boost pressure, which is nothing. The reason why guys will run low timing on an engine never intended for boost is because of the rolling assembly, and pump gas. They are being extra careful not to detonate. But again, 8 pounds of boost is nothing for an engine with less fuel consumption per cylinder than say a Grand National engine running 25-psi of boost pressure at 18* of timing and making the same, if not more, power. I mean unless you are running watered down crappy gas with IAT's well over 200 degrees, 14* of timing at 8 pounds of boost pressure is very very conservative. Understand that when I say it is conservative, I'm just referring to the amount of boost pressure along with it. I would expect your setup to see 14* of timing at 15+psi of boost pressure, not below. It's preference though, and there are plenty of variables, but again, you're making excellent power regardless and it works for you...
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
You have to remember that we are referring to only 8 pounds of boost pressure, which is nothing. The reason why guys will run low timing on an engine never intended for boost is because of the rolling assembly, and pump gas. They are being extra careful not to detonate. But again, 8 pounds of boost is nothing for an engine with less fuel consumption per cylinder than say a Grand National engine running 25-psi of boost pressure at 18* of timing and making the same, if not more, power. I mean unless you are running watered down crappy gas with IAT's well over 200 degrees, 14* of timing at 8 pounds of boost pressure is very very conservative. Understand that when I say it is conservative, I'm just referring to the amount of boost pressure along with it. I would expect your setup to see 14* of timing at 15+psi of boost pressure, not below. It's preference though, and there are plenty of variables, but again, you're making excellent power regardless and it works for you...
Understood! I'm def going to be bumping timing to like 18* if I can once I get the meth and WOT tuning done. Gas is a problem tho as I get the cheap stuff, 93 octane (delta brand) but I do mix in some BP if I can once and a while. No real good gas stations around here. 8psi isn't alot but I should be over 10psi with another 1000 rpms before redline and 30% more throttle left.
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by customblackbird
Ok cool, I'm in NNJ, like 30 min north of englishtown up in essex county. Well have to set something up!
Yea Im in the 1.34 g/s cylinder airmass in my logs at 8psi.
You gotta meet some of the local fella's. There's this one guy I'm friends with running a Chevy sidestep C10 w/Grand National engine that I am patiently waiting to run, he's waiting on a new converter from PTC, truck is cool as hell. Hoping to run him in the coming weeks. Don't let Dave (project89) fool you, he misses New Jersey lol...
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
No. You're referring to a naturally aspirated engine that was never intended for boost pressure. The moment boost is realized in any engine 100-kpa is immediately realized, whether you measure kpa or g/sec, 1 Bar is already maximized. We pull one to two degrees of timing from that point, not from an earlier point.
Stop it. You have no idea how the late model lsx timing table is working. Thats not how its working with a speed density tune.
Lsx doesnt read kpa for timing it calculates air massflow grams/cyl. Its not a correlation to kpa what so ever
Yes, no vacuum is 100 kpa. But that still doesnt negate the fact a stock ls usually in the 26-28 deg range depending in parts. From there you can pull timing as the motor dictates. 1-2 deg per lb is a general rule of thumb. Does not always mean it applies for every setup!
An na ls motor will see .60-.80 grams. Read the values in a stock ls1 file, timing is 26-28 deg above 5000 rpm. As boost comes in depending how hot the setup is, you will max out the grams/cyl table at 1.2 grams cyl and timing becomes the bottom row of that table.
On my motor i maxed grams cyl at 4 psi at 3600 on the brake. Stock 5.3 may not max it til 8-10 psi as you currently are seeing.
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by customblackbird
Understood! I'm def going to be bumping timing to like 18* if I can once I get the meth and WOT tuning done. Gas is a problem tho as I get the cheap stuff, 93 octane (delta brand) but I do mix in some BP if I can once and a while. No real good gas stations around here. 8psi isn't alot but I should be over 10psi with another 1000 rpms before redline and 30% more throttle left.
Take it up slowly. It is conservative but better that than other way around, especially on stock parts. Keep an eye on cyl 7
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
You gotta meet some of the local fella's. There's this one guy I'm friends with running a Chevy sidestep C10 w/Grand National engine that I am patiently waiting to run, he's waiting on a new converter from PTC, truck is cool as hell. Hoping to run him in the coming weeks. Don't let Dave (project89) fool you, he misses New Jersey lol...
Nicest truck I have ever seen, and very fast...
Is that a show down by you? And by run you mean race him at ET? That's a nice truck! Buick T-type motors are incredible!
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
Stop it. You have no idea how the late model lsx timing table is working. Thats not how its working with a speed density tune.
Lsx doesnt read kpa for timing it calculates air massflow grams/cyl. Its not a correlation to kpa what so ever
Yes, no vacuum is 100 kpa. But that still doesnt negate the fact a stock ls usually in the 26-28 deg range depending in parts. From there you can pull timing as the motor dictates. 1-2 deg per lb is a general rule of thumb. Does not always mean it applies for every setup!
An na ls motor will see .60-.80 grams. Read the values in a stock ls1 file, timing is 26-28 deg above 5000 rpm. As boost comes in depending how hot the setup is, you will max out the grams/cyl table at 1.2 grams cyl and timing becomes the bottom row of that table.
On my motor i maxed grams cyl at 4 psi at 3600 on the brake. Stock 5.3 may not max it til 8-10 psi as you currently are seeing.
My motor at 30 psi was over 3.1 grams cyl
This is true, my timing tables are in g/s. My VE tables are in rpm vs kpa.
Im seeing 1.15 g/s at 5.93psi boost, but that is affected by Throttle, load and other stuff no?
Will do Orr on the timing. At this point I want to just take out all the retard from the IAT table as sometimes Im at 13* when Im commanding 15 or something. Thinking I'll take retard out and add 2* every time and look for any knock in the logs. Any idea where I should be total timing around 10psi?
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
Take it up slowly. It is conservative but better that than other way around, especially on stock parts. Keep an eye on cyl 7
Is that the problem cylinder? which cylinder is what on these? lol. Im all screwed up going from SBC to BBF now to LS. How do I keep an eye on it>? read the plug? look at exhaust temps?
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Dave you got me shopping for bikes now, seriously. There is a Honda CBR 600 for $800.00 locally, I am ready to pull the trigger on it just to have something to have fun in. I miss those late night blasts over the Verrazano Bridge doing 150-mph lol...
Edit: Adding picture for full effect lol...
Last edited by Street Lethal; 06-02-2016 at 08:00 AM.
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
Dave you got me shopping for bikes now, seriously. There is a Honda CBR 600 for $800.00 locally, I am ready to pull the trigger on it just to have something to have fun in. I miss those late night blasts over the Verrazano Bridge doing 150-mph lol...
Edit: Adding picture for full effect lol...
theres no way i would ride a street bike back there , ppl just dont pay enough attention when they are driving , dont have to worry about other ppl here to much , its the wildlife and free range cattle that will get u if ur not paying attention
im prolly going to pick up something come this fall when prices are cheap , i miss the ninja that thing was a blast till up around 140mph when it would start to speed wobble
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Jesus, this thread derails yet again. Last 7 posts have nothing to do with this thread, and have zero technical value and DO NOT BELONG HERE. (cue anesthes deleting my post)
Re: Single turbo 352 iroc 1000hp or bust the grand finale
Originally Posted by 1986Z28OWNER
Jesus, this thread derails yet again. Last 7 posts have nothing to do with this thread, and have zero technical value and DO NOT BELONG HERE. (cue anesthes deleting my post)
well considering i started the thread and i dont mind , maybe u should just stay the hell out of the thread
05-25-2016, 09:05 AM
