Steering gear moving?
#1
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Car: 1989 Gray ttop GTA
Engine: 5700cc
Transmission: auto 700R4
Steering gear moving?
hi allo
I made those two ugly videos to ask you if you notice something wrong about my steering gear, which seems no completely fixed to me.
I think it's moving when I rotate the steering wheel. Is it normal? Perhaps the screws are not fixed?
Thank you very much!!
I made those two ugly videos to ask you if you notice something wrong about my steering gear, which seems no completely fixed to me.
I think it's moving when I rotate the steering wheel. Is it normal? Perhaps the screws are not fixed?
Thank you very much!!
#2
Re: Steering gear moving?
In the first vid it almost looks like the shaft to the pitman arm is wobbling or even bent.Hard to tell, maybe its just the angle.If it is, maybe try adjusting it up top or a rebuild.
The 2nd vid, it looks like the whole steering box is moving.Could be its loose or worse the frame is cracked around the bolts.Should probably check those mounting points on the frame (This is somewhat common on these cars, unfortunately).
You should move this to the suspension topic instead of interior.Might get more replies.
The 2nd vid, it looks like the whole steering box is moving.Could be its loose or worse the frame is cracked around the bolts.Should probably check those mounting points on the frame (This is somewhat common on these cars, unfortunately).
You should move this to the suspension topic instead of interior.Might get more replies.
Last edited by 84 1LE; 05-15-2016 at 01:38 PM.
#4
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Car: 1989 Gray ttop GTA
Engine: 5700cc
Transmission: auto 700R4
Re: Steering gear moving?
I'm really worried right now
Is it usefull to say that my car can't go straight? I always have to adjust with the steering wheel. Perhaps it's an improper wheel alignment, or can it be a metal damage? What should I check?
thanks
Is it usefull to say that my car can't go straight? I always have to adjust with the steering wheel. Perhaps it's an improper wheel alignment, or can it be a metal damage? What should I check?
thanks
#5
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Car: Firebird
Engine: 5737cc
Transmission: 700R4
Re: Steering gear moving?
Something tells me that's related to https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...all-joint.html
And no you should not be that worried...you can fix the mounting points.The car normally pulls to a side when it needs alignment .
And no you should not be that worried...you can fix the mounting points.The car normally pulls to a side when it needs alignment .
#6
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Car: 1989 Gray ttop GTA
Engine: 5700cc
Transmission: auto 700R4
Re: Steering gear moving?
yeah my car pulls to a side, it has always done that. We aligned it, but the steering had play so a precise aligment was impossible.
I'm just hoping that this pulling to a side behaviour is not related to the video I posted, and finally to some metal crack/failure.
I dont wanna think the ballhoint failure is related... I could kill my mechanic.
Is it that serious if the metal somehow cracked? Repairable without buying the new chassis parts?
I'm just hoping that this pulling to a side behaviour is not related to the video I posted, and finally to some metal crack/failure.
I dont wanna think the ballhoint failure is related... I could kill my mechanic.
Is it that serious if the metal somehow cracked? Repairable without buying the new chassis parts?
#7
Re: Steering gear moving?
As mentioned before, remove the steering box & check for cracks on the frame.Most can be welded to correct the issue.Ive done one on a friends T/A.It wasn't very difficult to fix.
Also look into getting a wonder bar.These were an option on Irocs, but will fit your car as well.Might just go aftermarket while your at it, TDS has the best one in my opinion.
The wonder bar was specifically added to remedy the stress cracking from the steering loads placed on the frame rail.
Another item to check (& upgrade) is the rag joint, not visible cause you still have the shield in place, but if you remove it you may find your rag joint has seen better days.Most upgrade to a U-joint from the astro vans.This upgrade will help with your alignment/pulling.
Also look into getting a wonder bar.These were an option on Irocs, but will fit your car as well.Might just go aftermarket while your at it, TDS has the best one in my opinion.
The wonder bar was specifically added to remedy the stress cracking from the steering loads placed on the frame rail.
Another item to check (& upgrade) is the rag joint, not visible cause you still have the shield in place, but if you remove it you may find your rag joint has seen better days.Most upgrade to a U-joint from the astro vans.This upgrade will help with your alignment/pulling.
Last edited by 84 1LE; 05-16-2016 at 01:00 PM.
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#8
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Car: Firebird
Engine: 5737cc
Transmission: 700R4
Re: Steering gear moving?
Don't worry after you fix that you just do an alignment and you will be ok.
The only cracks in the body I know of are the ones on hardtops at the window corners /b pillars and even those are easy to fix.
Last edited by FirebirdUSX; 05-17-2016 at 08:28 AM.
#10
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Car: 1989 Gray ttop GTA
Engine: 5700cc
Transmission: auto 700R4
Re: Steering gear moving?
hello
We checked again the car, without removing the steering great. There is NO visible cracks at all. We watched meticulously. We even tried to pull the whole car from the pitman arm, then from me the center link and then from the support triangle, and everything is very very firm.
If you have one min, you can check this other two new videos:
and two more pictures:
Yeah, after reading this I went to this http://www.top-downsolutions.com/ste...or-firebird-(a
Seems a pretty nice part for the price! Does it really improve also the steering performance?
Well, we checked them also. Seems that the rag joint is ok, but this one not:
it produces a small play. With the engine off you can even rotate the steering wheel using the tip of one finger by 1-2 degree, without rotating the wheels of course. They told me that this is a lag from that part. I think it is still stock from 1989. Is it hard to change it? What is its name?
----
Since the car pushes to the right, we manually tried to adjust the tie ends after noticing this:
now the car goes almost straight, but the steering wheel is constantly rotated byt 3-4 degrees ... So annoying
I thought that 3rd gen had a cool handling, but this car is driving me crazy!!
Do you have a pictures to show the precise position you mean?
thanks!
If you have one min, you can check this other two new videos:
and two more pictures:
Also look into getting a wonder bar.These were an option on Irocs, but will fit your car as well.Might just go aftermarket while your at it, TDS has the best one in my opinion.
The wonder bar was specifically added to remedy the stress cracking from the steering loads placed on the frame rail.
The wonder bar was specifically added to remedy the stress cracking from the steering loads placed on the frame rail.
Seems a pretty nice part for the price! Does it really improve also the steering performance?
Another item to check (& upgrade) is the rag joint, not visible cause you still have the shield in place, but if you remove it you may find your rag joint has seen better days.Most upgrade to a U-joint from the astro vans.This upgrade will help with your alignment/pulling.
it produces a small play. With the engine off you can even rotate the steering wheel using the tip of one finger by 1-2 degree, without rotating the wheels of course. They told me that this is a lag from that part. I think it is still stock from 1989. Is it hard to change it? What is its name?
----
Since the car pushes to the right, we manually tried to adjust the tie ends after noticing this:
now the car goes almost straight, but the steering wheel is constantly rotated byt 3-4 degrees ... So annoying
I thought that 3rd gen had a cool handling, but this car is driving me crazy!!
thanks!
Last edited by NiG; 05-19-2016 at 04:58 AM.
#12
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Re: Steering gear moving?
i had some "slop" or movement in my wheel. i traced it down to the through bolt on the steering shaft. it was tight, but as i had somebody move the wheel back and forth, i could see it wasnt fully tightening down. i used a pipe over a ratchet to get leverage and carefully tightened it up til it clamped down on the double D bar on the steering shaft. all movement and slop was eliminated. hope its something that simple for you.
#13
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Car: 1989 Gray ttop GTA
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Transmission: auto 700R4
Re: Steering gear moving?
#14
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Re: Steering gear moving?
Do you mean the rag joint??[/QUOTE]
no. see the red circle in the picture, in post #10? its the bolt right at the top of the red circle. have somebody jiggle the steering wheel back and forth, and see if theres any play in there. if so, tighten the nut and bolt REALLY tight and see if the play goes away.
no. see the red circle in the picture, in post #10? its the bolt right at the top of the red circle. have somebody jiggle the steering wheel back and forth, and see if theres any play in there. if so, tighten the nut and bolt REALLY tight and see if the play goes away.
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Re: Steering gear moving?
why would it possibly cost money? It's three 15mm bolts and a frame brace, if so equipped, that will need to be moved for access.
you may be able to loosen the three bolts and pull it out far enough to examine the rail behind it. certainly no need to remove the pitman arm.
you may be able to loosen the three bolts and pull it out far enough to examine the rail behind it. certainly no need to remove the pitman arm.
#16
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Car: Firebird
Engine: 5737cc
Transmission: 700R4
Re: Steering gear moving?
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...eet-metal.html
Don;t worry yours is T top os it won't get that problem.
and that problem was not caused by the pin incident awhile ago I am the pope
#17
Re: Steering gear moving?
The stress applied to the driver frame rail just by normal steering is enough to crack the frame rail sometimes.The wonder bars purpose is to transfer some of those steering forces to the passenger frame rail.So both sides of the frame share the load, minimizing or eliminating cracks.
Its a good idea to upgrade your steering shaft to u-joints.Especially if you still have the original in the car.There is a thread on the forum & MC87SS sells them too.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...ing-shaft.html
Its a good idea to upgrade your steering shaft to u-joints.Especially if you still have the original in the car.There is a thread on the forum & MC87SS sells them too.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...ing-shaft.html
#18
Re: Steering gear moving?
Can I also point out that his steering box is moving as the wheels turn. And this is happening with the front wheels in the air.
Which means that the wheels themselves during the video, are applying any torque to the frame because they have nothing to push against.
On the ground with traction the movement would be significantly worse.
Really, OP, you need to pull that steering box and look at the frame behind it.
Which means that the wheels themselves during the video, are applying any torque to the frame because they have nothing to push against.
On the ground with traction the movement would be significantly worse.
Really, OP, you need to pull that steering box and look at the frame behind it.
#19
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Car: 1989 Gray ttop GTA
Engine: 5700cc
Transmission: auto 700R4
Re: Steering gear moving?
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...eet-metal.html
Don;t worry yours is T top os it won't get that problem.
and that problem was not caused by the pin incident awhile ago I am the pope
Don;t worry yours is T top os it won't get that problem.
and that problem was not caused by the pin incident awhile ago I am the pope
nice article! Actually, if a hardtop car exibit the problem, why a weaker ttop should not? Im more scared now
The stress applied to the driver frame rail just by normal steering is enough to crack the frame rail sometimes.The wonder bars purpose is to transfer some of those steering forces to the passenger frame rail.So both sides of the frame share the load, minimizing or eliminating cracks.
Its a good idea to upgrade your steering shaft to u-joints.Especially if you still have the original in the car.There is a thread on the forum & MC87SS sells them too.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...ing-shaft.html
Its a good idea to upgrade your steering shaft to u-joints.Especially if you still have the original in the car.There is a thread on the forum & MC87SS sells them too.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...ing-shaft.html
I look forward to receive mine. Ordered that yesterdeay.
Ill try to check it anyway
---
I'll have another question for which I was thinking to open a new topic. I'll be brief. It happens always, not at low speed (say over 50mph), that I do a street "curve" (hope it's correct in english) and I feel the car like rolling. Yeah, that's the feeling: a roll movement on its longitudinal axis. The car does not feel firmly glued to the street, nor precise. It kinda tends to roll and subtly swing from left to right and viceversa. Well, it doesnt slip, I dont wanna say that, but it kinda has this lateral movements. It's a small but noticeable movement for me.
I have an italian car (alfa romeo) and it's so precise and this behaviour is totally absent.
Could this be related to the issue I'm describing on this topic?
any advice?
thanks guys !!
thank you all
#20
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Re: Steering gear moving?
on your other question about roll,...do you have a rear sway bar installed?
#22
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Car: Firebird
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Re: Steering gear moving?
Also subframe connectors are nice on these cars.They not only stop the body flex but also the safety in a crash .I think everyone on this site has them installed.
#23
Re: Steering gear moving?
The T Top cars have a piece of plastic on the door that sits on the door jamb when you close the door.If you open the door you will see it close to the weatherstripping .Also the obvious reason the roof doesn't crack is simple...there is no roof
Also subframe connectors are nice on these cars.They not only stop the body flex but also the safety in a crash .I think everyone on this site has them installed.
Also subframe connectors are nice on these cars.They not only stop the body flex but also the safety in a crash .I think everyone on this site has them installed.
#25
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Car: 1989 Gray ttop GTA
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Re: Steering gear moving?
Yeah but ttop have no roof, so they are weaker. Not good
Also subframe connectors are nice on these cars.They not only stop the body flex but also the safety in a crash .I think everyone on this site has them installed.
You're the owner? Thanks Hoe that wonder bar will improve both the strength, but the steering precision/handling also
#26
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Car: Firebird
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Re: Steering gear moving?
You see I don't think people in US can even grasp the concept of driving something with 110nm torque :lol
Check the pic to see the plastic thingy (no idea how its called ).
What stops you from installing them?Those are the most simple and best upgrade for these cars.If you are OCD about your car you can even make them (weld ) to look stock .
Last edited by FirebirdUSX; 05-20-2016 at 10:04 AM.
#27
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Car: 1989 Gray ttop GTA
Engine: 5700cc
Transmission: auto 700R4
Re: Steering gear moving?
Didn't know that the door keeps the structure rigid.
I can believe that subframe connectors can improve the fuelage by having the car more rigid. But will this lower the comfort also? Besides, how much will it improve the fuelage, by 2% ?
I can believe that subframe connectors can improve the fuelage by having the car more rigid. But will this lower the comfort also? Besides, how much will it improve the fuelage, by 2% ?
#28
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Car: Firebird
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Re: Steering gear moving?
If you take the door panel off you will see a thick steel bar.That's for side impact and to keep the car rigid when the door is closed.They thought that you don't drive the car without doors.There is a very good reason why the doors are so heavy plus if you want to impress your mechanic show him how much steel is inside that door....trust me there are not many cars with so much reinforcement in the doors.
You don't want comfort offered by body flex.Get some new shocks if you don't like the stiff suspension but don't get your comfort from the body flex
I don't think you can count it by % .Depends how you drive it.If you like to accelerate fast and feel the torque you will need less acceleration to get the same effect on you.
You don't want comfort offered by body flex.Get some new shocks if you don't like the stiff suspension but don't get your comfort from the body flex
I don't think you can count it by % .Depends how you drive it.If you like to accelerate fast and feel the torque you will need less acceleration to get the same effect on you.
#29
Re: Steering gear moving?
Because the previous owners off-roader the car or something. The pinch rails are folded up against the body. I've tried straightening them out on jack stands and nearly dropped the car onto myself. So I gave up. I need to take it to a shop with a drive on lift so that they can be straightened. Then they can be welded. They are Spohn Tubular style so not so easy to weld.
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Car: 91 G92 Z28
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Re: Steering gear moving?
Because the previous owners off-roader the car or something. The pinch rails are folded up against the body. I've tried straightening them out on jack stands and nearly dropped the car onto myself. So I gave up. I need to take it to a shop with a drive on lift so that they can be straightened. Then they can be welded. They are Spohn Tubular style so not so easy to weld.
#31
Re: Steering gear moving?
NiG the wonder bar will not fix this issue. This will happen even without the frame being cracked especially if you are using wider tires. I am currently working on something that will alleviate this problem.
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