LIL QIK

iTrader: (1)

Any of you other turbo guys know anything about the Tial Wastegates over the Delta or Race Gates? Any comments would be helpful. Later

CrazyHawaiian

Wow very nice setup you have going there!!! I'm not sure how much power you will be pushing but I think it will be between the 600-1200 hp levels so you're gonna need some good wastegates. I've read that the Delta Wastegates can only handle 300-450 hp ... prolly not gonna handle the power levels you're gonna make. I heard the Tial wastegates are very good (the 46mm anyway) and can handle over 800hp in twinturbo applications. Another alternitave could be some of the import wastegates ... The HKS GT wastegates are made for 1000+ hp twinturbo applications and high boost. They can be found @ www.hksusa.com and are pretty much bulletproof. The Greddy wastegates are also very good but I haven't found any supported hp figgures for them yet. They come in 4 different sizes and are adjustable.

Do you plan to intercool your setup?? If you want to run over 10psi I would recommend you get an intercooler setup with a blow off valve. That would really help any turbo lag you might have. Good luck on the project!!!

LIL QIK

iTrader: (1)

Appreciate the info. I'll be running about 15 psi tops and the car is going in the shop in 2 to 3 weeks for the intercooler, plumbing, and down tubes. Atleast thats when they said they will be ready for it anyway. I'm shooting for 800 at the wheels. We'll see in about 2 to 3 months. I'm looking at the end of July to finish it up and be able to drive it on the street.

TheCamel

I would have to agree on the HKS wastegates, they are a really well designed unit and are on any major tuned Japanese car. They are not as pretty looking as the Delta or the tial but beauty isn't always functional. To give you an idea what these are on...

Top Secret's 1217 hp Nissan Skyline

HKS Drag cars

Blitz's Top speed record holder Nissan Skyline

Veilsides 1348 hp Skyline GT-R

etc etc

Really good units, rebuildable, and although a little more expensive than the other 2, well worth every
penny.

Sean

CrazyHawaiian

Damn I wish I could be there in person to hear that setup when you're done!! The rumble of the v8 followed by the release from the BOV .... VVVRRRRRRROOOOOOMMMM!!!! PPPSSSSHHHH!!!! I bet I'd wet my pants!!! Do you have any more info on your buildup? I plan to try a single turbo setup (T76 @ 15 psi) on a rebuilt L98 but first I'm going to get the rest of the car ready (suspension, brakes, tranny and drivetrain that can handle 800 hp and 200 mph on streets! heheh!)

I've just been too obsessed with my SVO ... converting to a T3/T4 hybrid setup with front mount intercooler and super loud BOV. Plan to push 25 psi and will hopefully hit around 400 rwhp (pretty good for a 2.3ltr FORD engine! lol!). When done the SVO is going to be my drifting car ... but the turbo Camaro will be the real animal!!

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

add another vote for the HKS

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

forgot to change the sig

Monty

I'm using HKS wastegates as well. According to Harry at Precision Turbo, the Standard HKS wastegate is what they recommend for turbo's smaller than a T76, for a T76 and larger they recommend the HKS Racegate. I'm running two HKS Standard wastegates with two PT-52's, which are equivalent to 60-1's.

Guido

Why do you always bring up meany's vette?

Im using a single HKS GT wastegate for my project.

Ive heard good things about tial and even the innovative wastegates.

I chose the HKS though because they do not use cast iron housings. Over time, moisture buildup can rust the valve seat in an iron housing wastegate; and let boost go by and then you either have to have them rebuilt, remachined or whatever.

I spent the extra $$ now and bought one wastegate that will work out great for me. It is pretty large mut I imagine with your smaller turbos, you could get away with a pair of much smaller valves then mine.

1982chevycamaroz28

hey guido what r u doin to ur car now? i thought u were finished with ur turbo setup. id love to see a video of that thing at the track or hell even on the road. whats with ur engine in the pic u got up? is that like a before u finished the engine? later

askulte

LilQuick - It looks like you've got the Gale Banks manifolds from the pictures. The manifold is the restriction before the wastegate will be. I had to bore out the wastegate opening in the manifolds to prevent boost creep, in addition to running a separate vac line to each wastegate (before they were tee'd off the same line). This was on a 450 hp stockish L98 with the gale banks manifolds and 5 psi (at the time). I hope this helps!

89ProchargedROC

i have an article or two where Duttwheiler only used deltagates on a twin turbo T04B setup that made 1000hp and 1000ftlbs of torque with 25psi

CrazyHawaiian

quick offtopic question ... would manifolds for a LS1 fit on a L98 or a LT1?

TheCamel

Yeah lil sell those manifolds and then you can build headers for the HKS gates :P


Sean

Guido

No the exhaust port layout of an LS1 is entirely different.

Monty

Guido,

I only mentioned it because most everyone has seen his car in PHR and knows it's performance, and it realted to the fact that the Standard HKS wastegates are more than sufficient for high-output twin turbo applications.

Addionally, I think his setup is one of the better custom setups that I have seen, and my goal is to get similar performance using the same combination.

TPI_Guru

Sounds to me like you are trying to hang off of big meaney's nut sack :hail:

Monty

Sorry if it sounded that way, that's not my intent. I'm just really impressed with his setup, that's all. I've never met the guy...

LIL QIK

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info guys. I had thought about selling the Banks manifolds and going to headers, I even bought a set that Grapeape had built for the 2nd gen thinking they might be better but unfortunately they wouldn't work for the third gen. The guys at Turbo People of NY have assured me that the manifolds will make the power that I'm looking for. They did mention the same thing that Andris did, which was I will need to bore out the wastegate path so that I could run something of Racegate size. Just for ****s and giggles I'm probably going to send them up north to have them extrude honed as well. Job says they have made several motor in the 800-1000 range with the Banks manifolds. So I've decided to stick with them and see If I can get what I want. As far as the wastegates, I work with Gene Deputy, some of you may have heard of him, and he pretty much swears by the HKS. Ofcourse he builds 2000 HP cars. Anyway thanks for the input guys and if everything keeps going as good as it seems to be going I should be able to let you know what the car does around the end of July.

TPI_Guru

just busting your ***** monty.....just trying to have a little fun

well, not THAT kind of fun.....bah you know what i mean

Monty

I'm curious about this - boring out the wastegate hole in the turbine housing. On the PT-52's, the hole is pretty small, amybe about 1" diameter, and we were worried it wouldn't provide the necessary flow to control boost and prevent boost creep. We called Harry at PTE and he didn't recommend opening up the hole, but rather mounting the wastegate by using a 'y' pipe off the collector before the turbo. He said that opening up the hole would weaken the turbine housing. Maybe this is just applicable to their housing, but it's something I was curious about since I see alot of setups done that way.

I've also seen that hole incorporated into the downpipe like this:

LIL QIK

iTrader: (1)

Hey Monty,

I might not understand exactly what your talking about but it sounds like your setup will have the wastegate coming off of the turbine housing. If that's correct then I would know too much about it. The Banks manifolds have a place to mount the wastegate on the manifold it self. If your unfamiliar with it then take a quick look and you'll see where it mounts right up front. I had asked Job about the structual integrity of doing that and he had only recommended about an inch in size. Right now my current hole is only about 3/4" maybe a little larger if I'm not mistaken.

Monty

Maybe I'm mistaken...

I thought the hole on the turbine exhaust flange was for the wastegate, the small hole shown here:



We're blocking that hole with the downpipe flange:



And adding a pipe and mount for the wastegate between the collector and the turbine, on the short straight tube section shown here:


You've got a sweet looking setup.. I don't think I've ever seen a TT SuperRam. What size are your turbo's? If that small hole at the end of your manifolds is sufficient for you, the hole on my turbine should be sufficent for my needs as well.

LIL QIK

iTrader: (1)

Yea, I think for your turbo that's probably definetly for the wastegate. Mine doesn't have that. And for the HP that your shooting for I can see where you would want to block it and mount it in a different location for use of a bigger hole. I can see why you would be worried about the cracking. It doesn't look like you would have a whole lot of meat left. This is the back of mine.

TheCamel

The difference in the Turbo's is that one has an internal wastegate port, and Lil's do not, The larger turbines ussually are not internally gated because they are not for automotive applictations but for heavy trucks that will use a lot of the CFM the large turbo will produce but never reach the RPM where the turbo would overboost. We would break that barrier and over boost the turbo blowing the heads right off the engine, or causing other severe damage. I will be running a large single with an internal wastegate for now, or modifying the mounting flange for an external wastegate on mine, still waiting to get the thing to make sure of what I have for clearances etc...

Sean

Ward

iTrader: (1)

LIL, are you building that engine in your room?! Thats freeking sweet!!!

LIL QIK

iTrader: (1)

Yeap, It was definately an inside motor................it's in the vehicle now............fixing to fire it up this weekend on all motor. Once the motor is broken in then I'll get the turbo's mounted.

twolfe

iTrader: (2)

Question on waste gates.. what is better internal or external? can some one explain this to me? i am going to run a tt setup on a 91 z. I will be running for the short term 5 psi untill i get my forged setup .. but i plan on running 10-15 when done. why would i want an external over a internal and vise versa...??

-Tony

LIL QIK

iTrader: (1)

I really don't think that one is better than the other.....you'll have things to consider like availability of space, how much power your wanting to make and how much exhaust you need to bleed off in order to control the boost.

But for my two cents, I don't think that there are too many turbo's made with an integrated wastegate that have the wastegates big enough to control the really high HP applications.

I could be wrong.....but most people that are trying to get serious power out of there engine......are going with the external.

Dustin Mustangs

iTrader: (1)

If performance is your number one objective, which I hope it is, go with the external. Internals will save $$, space, an fab time, but most of them re-introduce the exhaust gasses that they bypass a very short distance down stream of the turbine. This creates a large amount of turbulance in an area where you really don't want it.

I guess you could kind of look at it as being similar to the differnce between log style exhuast manifolds and the individual tube header type. Logs are easier (read: cheaper) to fit and make, but using them does cost some loss in performance because of different reasons than mentioned above.

twolfe

iTrader: (2)

thanks for the info fellas, you cleared it up.

-tony

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Turbine mounted (internal) wastegates are more efficient at doing what they do, and how the exhaust flow reenters the exhaust is really up to the builder, you don’t have to dump it right back in, you can even dump it separately if you want. In the long run it really doesn’t make a difference from a performance standpoint, you just might need a slightly larger external if it’s not mounted as optimally.

The reason why most OEM’s use internals and most aftermarket setups use externals is the same… packaging. It’s easier/cheaper for OEM’s to design most setups around a package, where most aftermarket setups are shoehorning things in places that they weren’t designed to go in so the flexibility of an external helps