Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
09-22-2017, 10:19 AM
#401
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Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Joe,
Thank you for looking over this for me. Firmware is definitely something I have not updated. It just hasn't occurred to me to be honest. I'll look into the updates.
I'd guess I'm never in boost under 3k.. that's close to the converter stall speed. I believe I told you 2400 but actually it is a 2800. I put my Vigilante back in. The PTC I took out was 2400. Anyway I doubt I'm making any real boost below 3000 as a result.
Required fuel... boy you're going way back on that one. I would have calculated it based on whatever instructions for the Megasquirt setup were, at the time. FWIW I'm running 65lb/hr injectors.
I can't explain why the ignition would be on JS10 if D14 is "the better way". I followed the instructions from DIY Autotune to a T... I hand built that MS, soldered every component and it works, so I'm pretty good at following instructions. My guess is I followed the instructions, as they were at that time. Most like it has been revised, because everything megasquirt is in constant revision and is experimental. Megasquirt instructions are full of 'If X doesn't work, try adding a resistor to Y" sentences.
I'm pretty sure I have the bypass wired in for starting. I wish I could remember the wiring configuration. I first start the car up on the Megasquirt 8 years ago this week. WOW I've gotten my use out of that thing. I'm going to go through the ignition wiring and refresh my memory of how it is set up.
Steve
Thank you for looking over this for me. Firmware is definitely something I have not updated. It just hasn't occurred to me to be honest. I'll look into the updates.
I'd guess I'm never in boost under 3k.. that's close to the converter stall speed. I believe I told you 2400 but actually it is a 2800. I put my Vigilante back in. The PTC I took out was 2400. Anyway I doubt I'm making any real boost below 3000 as a result.
Required fuel... boy you're going way back on that one. I would have calculated it based on whatever instructions for the Megasquirt setup were, at the time. FWIW I'm running 65lb/hr injectors.
I can't explain why the ignition would be on JS10 if D14 is "the better way". I followed the instructions from DIY Autotune to a T... I hand built that MS, soldered every component and it works, so I'm pretty good at following instructions. My guess is I followed the instructions, as they were at that time. Most like it has been revised, because everything megasquirt is in constant revision and is experimental. Megasquirt instructions are full of 'If X doesn't work, try adding a resistor to Y" sentences.
I'm pretty sure I have the bypass wired in for starting. I wish I could remember the wiring configuration. I first start the car up on the Megasquirt 8 years ago this week. WOW I've gotten my use out of that thing. I'm going to go through the ignition wiring and refresh my memory of how it is set up.
Steve
09-22-2017, 05:03 PM
#402
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Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Joe, I managed to get my logviewer working to see the entire datalog. The log I sent you was actually the one where I put a T on the wastegate expecting 15 psi from the previous 10, and ended up hitting the boost limiter at 22 psi when we opened the cutout. A lot of strange things were happening on that log but we kept the cutout closed for the rest of the drive. I just noticed the duty cycle was north of 100% and that coincided with the unintended 22 psi. I had the map ramped up at the top as a buffer in case the boost ever spiked it would go dead rich to prevent detonation. That isn't an area I have tuned in the map because I don't go there with the car on pump gas.
09-24-2017, 07:14 AM
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Good job guys. It looks like you are headed in the right direction. Get the code/wiring figured out, tune the MS parameters (edge, latency, etc) with the new crank trigger, and you should be in good shape.
09-24-2017, 05:04 PM
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Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
So this is what I decided to do with the trigger wheel. I'm going to weld it to the front of the pulley so I cut out the whole center of it using a jig and my plasma cutter. It's a clean fit so I just need to make sure it is perfect centered and it will work great. Hopefully.
Next I will start working on a bracket for the pickup. I think that will be the bigger challenge because of the needed adjustability.
Took a friend for a ride this morning and the car just ripped with all three of us in it. Still not spinning but it was moving nicely. But still a 7.0 car in the 1/8 and not satisfactory. Hoping with the timing in order I can at least feel more comfortable pushing the limits of advance with 93.
09-25-2017, 07:04 AM
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
I recommend checking how "out-of-round" the pulley is and dial indicating the install of the ring. You may need to put the pulley on a lathe first. The teeth and hall effect pickup will miss teeth if the gap is too large at some teeth due to out of round.
09-25-2017, 09:22 AM
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, 355" LT1, LT1
Transmission: T5, Zf6, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, Dana44 3.45, 3.23
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
-- Joe
09-25-2017, 09:34 AM
#407
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
I have a 6AL (yes it is wired direct to the battery!)
Regarding the outputs, dual fan control and non-working boost control. I'm not sure if anything else it's been way too long since I did it. Wasted spark could probably be made to work - I can reuse the boost control outputs I suppose.
Ok I have spec'd out a Holley Dominator system and a Megasquirt 3 Pro Ultimate (closest comparable MS to the Dom)
554-114 $1990.95 Holley Dominator ECU
558-308 $ 59.83 Main Power Harness
558-101 $332.95 TPI Harness
558-200 $117.95 Injector Harness EV1 Connector
558-410 $ 59.83 Ignition Harness Hall Effect crank/cam
558-307 $ 99.76 LSx coil harness
558-405 $170.95 4L60E/80E Harness
554-101 $146.95 Bosch WB02
557-200 $103.95 Boost Control Kit
TOTAL: $3083.12
--------------------------
$2548.00 MS3Pro Ultimate + 24x harness (would require reworking to fit gen1)
$ 499.00 Microsquirt CAN Transmission Control + Harness
$ 53.00 Boost Control Solenoid
Total $3100
What, what? MORE than the Dom! And I'd have to do work on the LS harness to make it work with my gen1, but it's the easiest way to have the sequential wiring for the injectors and individual coil control. Plus it's still $300 for the pigtail harness so that's only $400 less and you have to build every connector. Also the MS route would re-use my O2 while the Holley has its own calibrated O2 sensor included in the configuration above. Apples for Apples I think it is no contest. You could configure a lower cost MS but if I want stand-alone transmission control I also could just go Holley HP, so MS doesn't automatically win the price battle even stripped down.
Regarding the outputs, dual fan control and non-working boost control. I'm not sure if anything else it's been way too long since I did it. Wasted spark could probably be made to work - I can reuse the boost control outputs I suppose.
Ok I have spec'd out a Holley Dominator system and a Megasquirt 3 Pro Ultimate (closest comparable MS to the Dom)
554-114 $1990.95 Holley Dominator ECU
558-308 $ 59.83 Main Power Harness
558-101 $332.95 TPI Harness
558-200 $117.95 Injector Harness EV1 Connector
558-410 $ 59.83 Ignition Harness Hall Effect crank/cam
558-307 $ 99.76 LSx coil harness
558-405 $170.95 4L60E/80E Harness
554-101 $146.95 Bosch WB02
557-200 $103.95 Boost Control Kit
TOTAL: $3083.12
--------------------------
$2548.00 MS3Pro Ultimate + 24x harness (would require reworking to fit gen1)
$ 499.00 Microsquirt CAN Transmission Control + Harness
$ 53.00 Boost Control Solenoid
Total $3100
What, what? MORE than the Dom! And I'd have to do work on the LS harness to make it work with my gen1, but it's the easiest way to have the sequential wiring for the injectors and individual coil control. Plus it's still $300 for the pigtail harness so that's only $400 less and you have to build every connector. Also the MS route would re-use my O2 while the Holley has its own calibrated O2 sensor included in the configuration above. Apples for Apples I think it is no contest. You could configure a lower cost MS but if I want stand-alone transmission control I also could just go Holley HP, so MS doesn't automatically win the price battle even stripped down.
09-25-2017, 09:43 AM
#408
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
According to my MS timing table I'm requesting 32 degrees at 6000 rpm at 13 psi. That means I'm getting 25 degrees, which is still pretty high for 93 at those parameters. High compared to any timing tables I've seen posted for any turbo v8's at least. I don't think I want to risk adding timing to that range.
Double check for valve float and ignition strength. Whats your plug gap? Tighten it way up.
My 305 did this and part was spark blowout and part was valvefloat. Might need more spring pressure.
09-26-2017, 02:52 AM
#413
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
09-26-2017, 04:49 AM
#414
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Seems expensive. An upgrade to ms3 with the ms3x expansion is only a few hundred bucks. Gives full sequential, more I/o, etc.
Don't see why he would need a $3000 system.
I guess maybe to make the wiring easier?
Did you go with Holley or are you keeping the gm ecm?
-- Joe
09-26-2017, 06:41 AM
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Car: 87 Iroc
Engine: Turbocharged 5.7 Pro-Fl-XT
Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Very interesting info about the MS3Pro Ultimate. I personally wouldn't touch it anyway because the Dominator is a better deal, at least for anyone running a 60e/80e.
I've mounted the trigger wheel to the pulley and it has virtually zero runout relative to the pulley itself. The issue will be the pulley itself which has some (haven't measured yet). I have a couple of ideas on how to reduce that if it proves to be more than acceptable.
For the sensor bracket, I picked up a $12 chrome alternator bracket from the Pep Boy's performance and ***** aisle. It has the perfect radius for the intended mounting position. I'm building a mount and brace from some square tubing and then making an aluminum L out of some U channel I already have. This will give me about 35-40 degrees of adjustment for the sensor position.
Not sure I'll get all of this done in time for the dragstrip on Friday but it's going to be 92 anyway. I prefer a cooler day. Hoping to have it at least driving by the weekend if nothing else.
I've mounted the trigger wheel to the pulley and it has virtually zero runout relative to the pulley itself. The issue will be the pulley itself which has some (haven't measured yet). I have a couple of ideas on how to reduce that if it proves to be more than acceptable.
For the sensor bracket, I picked up a $12 chrome alternator bracket from the Pep Boy's performance and ***** aisle. It has the perfect radius for the intended mounting position. I'm building a mount and brace from some square tubing and then making an aluminum L out of some U channel I already have. This will give me about 35-40 degrees of adjustment for the sensor position.
Not sure I'll get all of this done in time for the dragstrip on Friday but it's going to be 92 anyway. I prefer a cooler day. Hoping to have it at least driving by the weekend if nothing else.
09-26-2017, 07:10 AM
#416
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
I have not looked into then. What does an ultimate give you over a regular ms3pro?
Seems expensive. An upgrade to ms3 with the ms3x expansion is only a few hundred bucks. Gives full sequential, more I/o, etc.
Don't see why he would need a $3000 system.
I guess maybe to make the wiring easier?
Did you go with Holley or are you keeping the gm ecm?
-- Joe
Seems expensive. An upgrade to ms3 with the ms3x expansion is only a few hundred bucks. Gives full sequential, more I/o, etc.
Don't see why he would need a $3000 system.
I guess maybe to make the wiring easier?
Did you go with Holley or are you keeping the gm ecm?
-- Joe
09-26-2017, 07:25 AM
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
-- Joe
09-26-2017, 12:25 PM
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Yes, pulley will have run out. Install ring, put pulley on lathe and true up the ring. Check run-out and make sure teeth are still "deep" enough.
The GM '427 PCM is pretty reliable. Has two injector drivers that can do high and lo-z. Also, can run the 80E and 60E. I love it. Just throwing it out there if you are thinking of a new PCM. I think the last one I bought was $25.
The GM '427 PCM is pretty reliable. Has two injector drivers that can do high and lo-z. Also, can run the 80E and 60E. I love it. Just throwing it out there if you are thinking of a new PCM. I think the last one I bought was $25.
09-26-2017, 12:32 PM
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
Engine: LC9, 355" LT1, LT1
Transmission: T5, Zf6, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, Dana44 3.45, 3.23
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Yes, pulley will have run out. Install ring, put pulley on lathe and true up the ring. Check run-out and make sure teeth are still "deep" enough.
The GM '427 PCM is pretty reliable. Has two injector drivers that can do high and lo-z. Also, can run the 80E and 60E. I love it. Just throwing it out there if you are thinking of a new PCM. I think the last one I bought was $25.
The GM '427 PCM is pretty reliable. Has two injector drivers that can do high and lo-z. Also, can run the 80E and 60E. I love it. Just throwing it out there if you are thinking of a new PCM. I think the last one I bought was $25.
-- Joe
09-26-2017, 12:51 PM
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
I never looked into running with 36-1 wheel. I have only run them with a good HEI module and coil. I am not saying this is the perfect PCM for him but it is an option.
I did make a converter box to take in the LSx 24x wheel and create the 90* (HEI) signal to send to a 427 PCM. The box controlled which of the 8 LSx coils to fire. So I know you can go the other way.
I did make a converter box to take in the LSx 24x wheel and create the 90* (HEI) signal to send to a 427 PCM. The box controlled which of the 8 LSx coils to fire. So I know you can go the other way.
09-26-2017, 01:11 PM
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Transmission: T5, Zf6, 4L60E
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
I never looked into running with 36-1 wheel. I have only run them with a good HEI module and coil. I am not saying this is the perfect PCM for him but it is an option.
I did make a converter box to take in the LSx 24x wheel and create the 90* (HEI) signal to send to a 427 PCM. The box controlled which of the 8 LSx coils to fire. So I know you can go the other way.
I did make a converter box to take in the LSx 24x wheel and create the 90* (HEI) signal to send to a 427 PCM. The box controlled which of the 8 LSx coils to fire. So I know you can go the other way.
Does it support 2-bar ?
-- Joe
09-28-2017, 07:41 AM
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Car: 87 Iroc
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Transmission: 700R4 for moment
Axle/Gears: 3.25 9 inch
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
This is my $12 crank trigger bracket.. some scrap square tube and flat stock I keep around and a chrome alternator bracket from Pep Boys. Seems pretty solid though I may add a 3/8" rod support at the bottom that goes back to the block to prevent vibration.
Next I need to see what kind of runout I'm dealing with and wire it to the Megasquirt. I broke a 3 inch vband bolt putting the downpipe back on (changed spark plugs) last night so now I've got to detour and fix that. I had actually ordered a spare last week but they shipped it in an envelope instead of a box, so it departed the package enroute.
Speaking of spark plugs, I have no idea how but #3 was finger tight. And tight is a big stretch of the word. The threads were black so it wasn't sealing. Not sure how much of an impact that might have made to the misfire. In my old age I'm losing my touch. A loose header bolt caused the gasket to go bad and now a loose spark plug. I'd better stay out of internals if I'm going to be this absent minded!
MSD Blaster HEI coil arrived and looks pretty healthy. I'm going to stop with the new plugs, new coil and crank trigger. If the problem persists, I'll replace the cap and rotor and maybe the plug wires.
09-28-2017, 07:49 AM
#423
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Transmission: 700R4 for moment
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
For anyone who might be thinking I can't properly form individual paragraphs, let me just mention the reason my paragraphs are mostly double spaced or have no space at all between each other. It is because when I post on Thirdgen my Internet Explorer will not show the correct number of blank lines between paragraphs. I hate it.. but I haven't been able to force myself to switch over to Firefox because of its own issues with some sites. Just wanted to mention that because my post format annoys me when I go back and read my own.
09-28-2017, 07:56 AM
#424
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
-- Joe
09-28-2017, 03:15 PM
#425
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Interesting find while taking apart my ignition wiring to re-route to the crank trigger sensor.. Pin G on the 8 pin HEI module is ground. The ground source I was using was the shielding on the coax 'trigger' wire that picks up the reluctor signal and sends it to the Megasquirt. That shielding was no longer in the connector. It either broke or pulled out of the pin at some point. I'm not sure of the importance of that ground since the 7 pin doesn't have it (although it grounds through the mounting screw). I'm not sure if the 8 pin grounds through the screws or not. Anyway it was still running so clearly it was getting a ground somewhere.
I'm down to just hooking up the wires and I'm ready to set the timing if the trigger signal works.
I'm down to just hooking up the wires and I'm ready to set the timing if the trigger signal works.
09-28-2017, 04:20 PM
#426
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Transmission: T5, Zf6, 4L60E
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Interesting find while taking apart my ignition wiring to re-route to the crank trigger sensor.. Pin G on the 8 pin HEI module is ground. The ground source I was using was the shielding on the coax 'trigger' wire that picks up the reluctor signal and sends it to the Megasquirt. That shielding was no longer in the connector. It either broke or pulled out of the pin at some point. I'm not sure of the importance of that ground since the 7 pin doesn't have it (although it grounds through the mounting screw). I'm not sure if the 8 pin grounds through the screws or not. Anyway it was still running so clearly it was getting a ground somewhere.
I'm down to just hooking up the wires and I'm ready to set the timing if the trigger signal works.
I'm down to just hooking up the wires and I'm ready to set the timing if the trigger signal works.
Remember, if you are changing the spark offset in tunerstudio you can do a max of 10 degrees per startup. If you need more you need to power cycle the megasquirt.
-- Joe
09-28-2017, 07:39 PM
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Wonderful... guess who didn't build the IGBT circuit because it wasn't needed at the time? So now I have no way of driving the 6AL direct. This is what I can't stand about the MS2.. so many different ways to do things, add a diode here, change a resister value there... it is impossible to keep up with the changes without going back through the entire build step by step to confirm what you have.
So I just spent three days building a crank trigger but I can't use it. Even if I could fire the 6AL through the ignition module, it would be leaving one of the most suspect components in place. At this point all I can do is keep the configuration the way it is and plug the HEI back in. At least I can try out the new coil and plugs.
I think I'd rather just move to the Holley system than put any more effort into the MS project. I don't feel like adding components, not to mention reverse the HEI mod steps. Also there is the boost control circuit added in and the transistor occupies the heat sync position of the IGBT, so I'd also have to cut all of that back out to make room for the coil driver. My time is more worth more than the cost to buy a better PCM.
I do have a box with the original Megasquirt parts in it so there is an outside chance I still have the components somewhere. No idea where that box is any more though.
So I just spent three days building a crank trigger but I can't use it. Even if I could fire the 6AL through the ignition module, it would be leaving one of the most suspect components in place. At this point all I can do is keep the configuration the way it is and plug the HEI back in. At least I can try out the new coil and plugs.
I think I'd rather just move to the Holley system than put any more effort into the MS project. I don't feel like adding components, not to mention reverse the HEI mod steps. Also there is the boost control circuit added in and the transistor occupies the heat sync position of the IGBT, so I'd also have to cut all of that back out to make room for the coil driver. My time is more worth more than the cost to buy a better PCM.
I do have a box with the original Megasquirt parts in it so there is an outside chance I still have the components somewhere. No idea where that box is any more though.
09-28-2017, 08:22 PM
#428
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Transmission: T5, Zf6, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, Dana44 3.45, 3.23
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Wonderful... guess who didn't build the IGBT circuit because it wasn't needed at the time? So now I have no way of driving the 6AL direct. This is what I can't stand about the MS2.. so many different ways to do things, add a diode here, change a resister value there... it is impossible to keep up with the changes without going back through the entire build step by step to confirm what you have.
So I just spent three days building a crank trigger but I can't use it. Even if I could fire the 6AL through the ignition module, it would be leaving one of the most suspect components in place. At this point all I can do is keep the configuration the way it is and plug the HEI back in. At least I can try out the new coil and plugs.
I think I'd rather just move to the Holley system than put any more effort into the MS project. I don't feel like adding components, not to mention reverse the HEI mod steps. Also there is the boost control circuit added in and the transistor occupies the heat sync position of the IGBT, so I'd also have to cut all of that back out to make room for the coil driver. My time is more worth more than the cost to buy a better PCM.
I do have a box with the original Megasquirt parts in it so there is an outside chance I still have the components somewhere. No idea where that box is any more though.
So I just spent three days building a crank trigger but I can't use it. Even if I could fire the 6AL through the ignition module, it would be leaving one of the most suspect components in place. At this point all I can do is keep the configuration the way it is and plug the HEI back in. At least I can try out the new coil and plugs.
I think I'd rather just move to the Holley system than put any more effort into the MS project. I don't feel like adding components, not to mention reverse the HEI mod steps. Also there is the boost control circuit added in and the transistor occupies the heat sync position of the IGBT, so I'd also have to cut all of that back out to make room for the coil driver. My time is more worth more than the cost to buy a better PCM.
I do have a box with the original Megasquirt parts in it so there is an outside chance I still have the components somewhere. No idea where that box is any more though.
-- Joe
09-29-2017, 06:12 AM
#430
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
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Transmission: T5, Zf6, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, Dana44 3.45, 3.23
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
09-29-2017, 01:02 PM
#431
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Car: 87 Iroc
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Where this is a way, there is a will.. and amazingly I have found the way! Eight years later I found the box with the unused parts. So I am going to try to make this work because I really want to run in test and tune tonight. Not going to set a hard goal to actually make it, but I'm going to take this afternoon and focus on doing the megasquirt changes.
09-29-2017, 08:40 PM
#433
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
No test and tune for me tonight.. I built the hall circuit and then the instructions for the hall sensor said to use the VR circuit. So then I built the VR circuit too. But in the end, the sun sat and the mosquitos moved in so I didn't get time to troubleshoot the lack of a signal from the hall sensor. I did check it for AC voltage during cranking and there appeared to be none. I confirmed the 12v VREF and ground. Maybe I'm not quite close enough with the trigger wheel yet. Tomorrow maybe.
09-29-2017, 10:19 PM
#434
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
No test and tune for me tonight.. I built the hall circuit and then the instructions for the hall sensor said to use the VR circuit. So then I built the VR circuit too. But in the end, the sun sat and the mosquitos moved in so I didn't get time to troubleshoot the lack of a signal from the hall sensor. I did check it for AC voltage during cranking and there appeared to be none. I confirmed the 12v VREF and ground. Maybe I'm not quite close enough with the trigger wheel yet. Tomorrow maybe.
09-30-2017, 07:54 AM
#435
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
09-30-2017, 01:27 PM
#436
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
The Iroc black cloud strikes again. The Hall sensor appears to be bad. I detect no DC voltage change nor do I get any AC voltage while cranking. I even took a magnet and waved it right next to the sensor and there is zero change on the signal wire. Just the bias voltage (about 2.3 after the resistor). Also the gap is 1.3mm and everything I've read said 1.0 to 1.5mm is optimum for this sensor. 1.5mm is listed as nominal and 5mm max in the documentation.
10-02-2017, 10:09 PM
#438
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
I emailed DIY Autotune, explaining the test results (2.3 volts on the signal wire because of the pull up resistor etc) and the first thing they said was "Did you use the pull up resistor? This sensor requires it." I could see this conversation wasn't going to get me back on the road very quickly so I decided I would just order a new hall sensor. When I bought the first one, I also ordered the trigger wheel so I didn't really put much thought into the shipping cost. Well it turns out that it's $20 to ship anything. And that doesn't even include insurance!! So that no-name hall sensor ends up costing $64.30. I just put a $4.50 pin removal tool (think very small screwdriver size) in my cart to see. Yep, $21.30 insured for shipping alone.
Since I'm going to Holley at some point and because everything Summit ships to me ground arrives next day, I ordered a Holley hall sensor. It was $103 shipped, but it comes with a weatherpack connector already in place along with the other half of the connector and pins. I'm done with DIY, there is no excuse to tack on $20 for shipping when they've already marked that sensor up $20+ over cost from digikey and other sources I would have ordered it elsewhere but there isn't stock on them. Some places list it as discontinued.
So it will be here tomorrow but I have a lot of things on my list this week. Hoping I'll get some time to work on it tomorrow evening.
Since I'm going to Holley at some point and because everything Summit ships to me ground arrives next day, I ordered a Holley hall sensor. It was $103 shipped, but it comes with a weatherpack connector already in place along with the other half of the connector and pins. I'm done with DIY, there is no excuse to tack on $20 for shipping when they've already marked that sensor up $20+ over cost from digikey and other sources I would have ordered it elsewhere but there isn't stock on them. Some places list it as discontinued.
So it will be here tomorrow but I have a lot of things on my list this week. Hoping I'll get some time to work on it tomorrow evening.
10-03-2017, 07:55 AM
#439
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Just got my holley stuff friday. Looks awesome the harness was well done. Could have made my own from my ls harness to save money but the time saved is very nice. You wont be disappointed
10-03-2017, 10:45 AM
#440
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Car: 86' IROC
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Axle/Gears: 3.45
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
I hated that when i ordered stuff from them. I dont mind paying their marked up prices because i know its exactly what they recommend, but the shipping just adds salt to the wound.
10-03-2017, 11:29 AM
#441
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
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Transmission: T5, Zf6, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42, Dana44 3.45, 3.23
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
-- Joe
10-03-2017, 02:03 PM
#442
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Engine: 3xx ci tubo
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
The Iroc black cloud strikes again. The Hall sensor appears to be bad. I detect no DC voltage change nor do I get any AC voltage while cranking. I even took a magnet and waved it right next to the sensor and there is zero change on the signal wire. Just the bias voltage (about 2.3 after the resistor). Also the gap is 1.3mm and everything I've read said 1.0 to 1.5mm is optimum for this sensor. 1.5mm is listed as nominal and 5mm max in the documentation.
1) Disconnect the hall effect sensor
2) Measure the voltage at the input (pin) of the MS where you would connect the sensor to see if you connect the bias parts properly. What is the voltage here?
3) Touch a ground wire to same MS pin and see if the MS is seeing "triggers" in the software.
That is how you verify you did the MS right before connecting the Open Drain Hall Effect sensor. It is best to verify circuits before connecting sensors.
10-03-2017, 03:59 PM
#443
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Junkcltr that is what I was thinking BUT it comes with a 1k resistor that must be placed between VREF (+5v) and the Signal wire, hence the 2.3 volt reading. The Holley sensor doesn't require this pull up resistor or it is internal.
10-03-2017, 04:48 PM
#444
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Junkcltr when I took the signal wire measurement, yes it was still attached to the MS. Without the MS connection, the signal wire measures 4.97 volts (again, with the pull up resistor in place).
Grounding the MS trigger wire does not show any triggering activity. It is currently jumpered to use the Hall circuit, not the VR circuit. Voltage measured at the trigger input, with the hall sensor disconnected from it, is .12 volts.
Grounding the MS trigger wire does not show any triggering activity. It is currently jumpered to use the Hall circuit, not the VR circuit. Voltage measured at the trigger input, with the hall sensor disconnected from it, is .12 volts.
10-04-2017, 01:37 AM
#445
Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Anyone got a diagram of how to add the Vortec Coil to a conventional HEI? I suspect you'd just hook it to the module via its trigger pin (presuming SCR, haven't looked) and plausibly an inverting transistor and/or some way of clamping the voltage at logic level.
10-04-2017, 11:04 AM
#446
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Unfortunately, in the case of my ProFlo XT intake, small cap is required. Coil per cylinder will though, when I get the Holley system!
10-05-2017, 05:29 AM
#447
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Ahahaha!! My Holley crank trigger plan fell apart in grand fashion. First, it didn't come in one day as planned. UPS "rescheduled delivery" to the second day. Then when it arrived, even though factory sealed, it was missing all of the connector and pin parts needed to install (unless I wanted to cut off the weatherpack connector). So now I await a replacement being send overnight by Summit.
I know none of this is the car itself, but it seems every thing I do with this car goes this way. And it has always been that way for this project.
I know none of this is the car itself, but it seems every thing I do with this car goes this way. And it has always been that way for this project.
10-05-2017, 10:16 AM
#448
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
And Summit overnighted another one to me.. Same thing. Guess I'll just cut the wires. Ugh.
10-05-2017, 11:13 AM
#449
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
10-05-2017, 07:16 PM
#450
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Re: Turbo Iroc - Round Four (Edit: Staying Gen1, new PT7675, heads, intake)
Ha I often think that. It does seem jinxed somehow. Stopped by my friend's shop today and he had the crank sensor weatherpack plug with some pigtails already pinned. So now I just have to connect my three wires and hopefully get the VR circuit happy in the MS. Yes I updated firmware and was surprised to see that the entire Tunerstudio interface changed along with it. It reported around 28 issues with the existing settings transferring over. I will most likely start with a fresh tune once I get it running (IF).