Do you think this manifold would work on a thirdgen? I'm concerned about motor mounts.

-- Joe

 

More pictures:

It was advertised as a rayjay manifold but I think it's a martin. I can't tell if it's a T3 or T4 flange, but I could adapt it either way.

-- Joe

 

thats a t4 manifold , u could always just buy my twin kit

 

It is? Perfect, so my T76 should bolt up.

Now I gotta figure out how to fab a wastegate on it.

I don't wanna do twins on this car.

-- Joe

 

as far as i know all the martin/rayjay manifolds were t4 , the bolt pattern apears to be t4
50mm wastegate on the turbine housing

 

Just drill a hole and weld a flange on it ?

-- Joe

 

Are you thinking of replacing the SSAC setup with that manifold? Looks like a major reduction in flow.

 

Yep. It might be, but I can hone it out a little bit.

Cast iron manifold will benefit me (personally) a few ways:

1) Packaging is a little smaller because castings can get away with angles I couldn't achieve

2) Shouldn't leak, whereas my flanges warped and leaked pretty quick

3) In theory, and this might be horse manure, but in theory cast should keep the heat in and spool up quicker..

It's a personal choice. I spent over a year waiting for one to show up on ebay for a good price. Plus, if I end up going back to n/a on the firebird i can use it on a C3.


-- Joe

 

Yes, packaging is way better. Heat retention is why better. They never leak.

I know you have a tig welder so that means it is a stick welder too.
You could easily build that manifold or better.

Look at the manifold on the right in this pic. Just keep the orig inlet on it and that is the feed from the drivers side.

post 9
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...-have-few.html



What they look like on an engine.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...-305s-out.html
post 7

 

I started working on a stock manifold conversion this past spring. I have the flange tack welded on, but I'm having some issues welding the cast. I can knock the welds clean off with a small hammer. I stopped and figured I'd resume when I'm more set up for welding cast.


-- Joe

 

I like where you are going with this......im looking forward to seeing any progress if you choose to do that setup.

 

I bought the martin manifold. Hopefully it will be at my front door within the next week. $250 shipped, I think that is fair. If someone started offering brand new cast turbo manifolds for SBC I'd probably pay $400-500.

I spent a lot of money this year on the shop in insulation, updated heating system and a new garage door so it's quite nice to work in there over the winter. I'm gonna do the martin manifold, get the new intercooler working (air/water), etc.

Pulling the transmission out next week, gonna sell it or part it out. re-doing another TH350 I have in the shop with a 9" tailshaft. I'm gonna do a normal forward valvebody though. The reverse/manual valvebody just isn't for me.

-- Joe

 

To weld cast iron to mild steel:

Pre-heat work pieces (make a fire or use old grill)
Get proper filler rod (nickel 55% to 60% nickel electrode) ebay or local weld supply store
Weld in 1-2" strip and peen with hammer, weld in opposite directions every strip
If welding takes a while, put it back on heat to maintain temperature
Put in speedy dry / cat litter fully covered after welding for slow post cool

It will be reliable if done this way.

After all that work on the SSAC manifold I am surprised you are changing it.

 

Have a few issues with it. It leaks. I've straightened the flanges twice already. It lasts for a little while but when it gets hot it moves.

The other issue is the weight of the turbo causes cracks in the thinner material of the log. I keep grinding and welding over cracks. I could make a bracket to take up most of the weight, but I don't know if that would solve the problem.

And the other thing is for some psychological reason I want a cast manifold.

the SSAC manifold will be used to make a jig.

I'll probably try welding up another cast manifold over the winter for fun. I've got flanges manifolds in the shop to play with.

-- Joe

 

Best way would be buy a housing with a wastegate flange or put it in the crossover. Have done it both ways.

 

Do they make them? It's a .96 AR housing, 74.5mm inducer, 65mm exducer

-- Joe

 

Have a call into my supplier. Can let you know your option if you want.

 

Awesome thanks.

Too bad they don't make an exhaust housing this size with an internal wastegate.


-- Joe

 

if u want to sent that cast iron manifold ur trying to weld up my way i have all the stuff to weld it

 

I want to try to do it again sometime in the future, probably after the new years. I'm going to make another jig when I have time. My buddy gave me some special rods to do cast, I just need to switch my TIG over to do ARC welding.

I've got to make a cheat sheet and tape it to the wall over my welders. I'm getting to the point where I'm forgetting which polarity, which gas, and which current type to use when welding different materials

-- Joe

 

I don't know what size turbo this manifold supports but, My T76 won't fit no matter how I orient the volute housing. You'd have to remove a couple of valves to get it to bolt up.


Any chance this manifold was meant to run on the driver side?

-- Joe

 

its meant for an on center turbine housing, somtething i forgot about till u posted that picture

 

Ahhh.. (pretends to know what that is)..

Off to the Google machine I go.

-- Joe

 

Ok I see what you are talking about. So my turbo specs are:

Compressor Wheel 76mm
.80 a/r
4' Inlet and 2.5' Compressor Outlet
Inducer- 76.71mm
Exducer- 102.36mm
Exhaust Side:

Exhaust Housing T-4 Flange:
.96 ar Exhaust Housing
3.0" Vband outlet
Inducer- 74.5mm
Exducer- 65mm


So I would need a .96 ar 65mm 'on center' housing, and it might work?

-- Joe

 

chances are u wont find one that fits that on3 turbo

 

So unless I can make an offset adapter that somehow allows the turbo to still fit under the hood, I'm SOL ?

So it looks like the largest on-center T4 I can find is a T04S, which is maxed out around 500hp. Sounds like this manifold would be better suited for a stock L98.


-- Joe

 

will the manifold sit on the driver side? if so then the turbine housing will move the turbo away frm the head/valve cover when mounted on that side

though i dont belive u will have any downpipe room

 

That's not going to happen. The bend cast into the manifold for the crossover would put it right into the motor mount.

The rayjay/martin manifold puts the T4 flange much higher than the BBS header does, and it's between #4 and #6. Even if I offset the flange, the turbo would be too high and smacks the hood and strut tower.

In stock form, I think it would be best with a TO4S for perhaps maybe a 450-500 application. A stock L98 or something.

I do have an idea, and this may be a dumb one. What If I made an adapter that does a 180, and hang the turbo up-side-down in front of the head?

-- Joe

 

are u dead set on using that thing?
or could i interest u n theese



i actually just finished welding up the passenger side yesterday and cleaned it up all nice , monday or tuesday i will be finishing up the driverside

was going to use them for a single 88mm build but since im sticking twin 66mm's on it i wont be using them so i had decided to finish them to sell them

edit how about a trade oon that vb/transbrake u got? or partial trade on the entire th350 u got

 

The only thing I don't like about that style is the crossover has to go in the front.

If I was up for anything, it might be some sort of trade for the twins you have but If I went twins I'd want internal wastegates.

I'm about 4 hours away from giving up on this manifold. I just want to mock one more thing up.

I made a jig earlier for my SSAC chinese manifold I modified so if I end up putting it back on I can cut the flanges off and weld new ones without losing the location of the T4 flange and crossover. The #8 still leaks.

I really wish someone sold new cast manifolds that would work with my car + my turbo. I'd pay almost anything at this point for tight, clean, and easy plug access.

-- Joe

 

crossover in front isnt bad at all, its how 90% of the builds here are done
with ur engine combo u dont want log manifolds , i actually just declined a sale on the log setup i have because its more suited to a stock 350/l98 , then a cam/heads/intake swaped 350 , and the guy had a built engine

if u do have any interest in them let me id be down for a trade on the vb and tb , and ill even buy the ultrabell

 

How would you run the crossover? Near the steering linkage?

I was looking at my engine bay and I'm not sure if the driver header would have clearance issues with my P/S tank (hydroboost) before it turns downward.

Where would the turbo sit?

-- Joe

 

You could solve two problems at once and make an adapter that would tilt the turbo and provide a waste gate solution.

 

Not possible. The location of the flange is too far back and puts it smack in the center of the strut tower. I tried resting the turbo in that area and closing the hood and it wouldn't happen. (see picture attached to this post)

And in terms of trying to make an adapter to move the flange forward, that won't work either because the flange on the manifold is too high.

I could cut the strut tower up but I'm not doing that for a manifold.

I'm either going to re-flange the tubular welded disaster I have now or do a different manifold.

-- Joe

 

measure the hieght of the ps tank from the deck of the block , the ds header is currently only tacked together so i can raise or lower the hieght as needed

 

Yeah your probably better off starting over. You will be happier in the end. When we do custom turbo setup we always start with where the turbo is going to be mounted best and go from there, which is what it looks like you were doing in one of the pics.

 

I'll try to do that tomorrow.

Where would the turbo be located? Where would the crossover run?

-- Joe

 

battery tray , or front of engine , xover would go front of engine or down and under the balancer and back up , best bet is to take ur turbo out to ur car and place it in different parts of the engine bay and see were it would make the most sence to put it for ease of crossover and charge tubes

 

Just make an angled adapter Joe, and angle it as much as you need. You can even weld a wastegate flange in the center of it if need be depending on how long of an extension you make. This pic is obviously T-3 to T-4, but it is just being used to embellish the scenario. Buy two cast iron T4 flanges, cut a piece of exhaust manifold to sandwhich in between to the desired length that you need, then "tilt" the upper flange as much as you need to angle it as much as you want...



Support it by welding in some supports...



Then weld in a cast wastegate flange if you can squeeze it in somewhere...

 

That was what I was attempting to do last night. just isn't possible. The flange is in the wrong spot on the manifold. I'd have to cut my shock tower and I mean a LOT. I could run a 2" spacer but then the turbo sticks out of the hood 2+ inches. If I'm gonna cut the hood, i'll use the twin manifolds i've been sitting on for a year with a pair of TO4E's.

If you look at the picture I have of the turbo sitting on the manifold at an angle, that rests against the valve cover AND the shock tower yet still goes through the hood. The flange is too far back. And it's too high to try and offset it forward. I mean, I could probably make a crazy adapter that is a 180 degree bend but how well would that work?

Also, the crossover is 2" which I think might be too small for my displacement.

Honestly, looking at the car last night in peices I kinda wanna continue taking it apart and go back to the drawing board or have a garage sale...

-- Joe

 

Only other thing you can try is to flip the manifold upside down on the same passenger side, and run the turbo the way the Calloway Corvette's did, upside down. You just need to make sure you have starter clearance, and enough room for the downpipe to clear the firewall. The intake wouldn't be too bad, as you can run it to the front. The crossover though would of course be on the top by the valve cover, you'd have to reroute it somewhere. Oil drain will run right to the oil pan from the center section..

 

I'd rather sell the car haha.

What I mocked up last night would actually work, which is if I turned the exhaust housing on the turbo so it fed from the top. The DP would run straight beside the frame rail. If I had a couple T4 flanges in the shop I would have mocked it up cuz I have some rectangle stock that would work perfect.

But, then I measured the crossover and found it was 2" ID.. I'm thinking to myself man, this might cause a lot of back pressure and toast an exhaust valve on my AFR 210s..

So I stopped there.

-- Joe

 

That exhaust manifold reminds me of Steve's (ZZ3astro) cast iron turbo header, with the only difference being the angle on the turbo flange, his is tilted of course. If it were me, I would cut/grind the turbo flange that is already on there off, raise the side of the turbo manifold that is on the engine side a few inches by adding weld on top of weld, shape the extra weld with a dremel so that it is straight and square, then weld in a new cast iron T4 flange on an angle, three inches should do the trick. Will take some time, but that is the only way I see it working and looking good. I still have the two exhaust manifolds that I worked on, and I don't even want to look at them anymore, what a pain in the neck it was. I hate welding cast iron...

 

Steve has a better video I am sure (@ 1:45 into the video), but take a look at the angle for the flange. If you can cut your flange completely off, build a wall of weld on the engine side of your manifold, shape it correctly, put a new T4 cast iron flange down on an angle and then weld it in, you'll be good to go...

 

I've seen his before. That's exactly where I moved the T4 flange on the chinese manifold I modified, it's a good spot for the turbo. I think I asked him once if he was selling or sold that cast manifold. I would have paid $$$ for it. For some reason I've got a thing for cast manifolds.

Visually, I don't know what your saying regarding modifying the manifold. In that location - how far back the flange is there is simply no way a T76 can fit between the shock tower and valve cover unless it goes OVER the valve cover, which puts it through the roof. All the turbos manifolds that run a turbo near the valve cover have them in front of the shock tower.



Can you draw on that picture and show me what you mean?

-- Joe

 

Joe, clock the turbo's cold side so that the outlet is facing downward on the angle towards the passenger fender (7 - 8:00 position), that will free up a few inches between the turbo and the shock tower. I am running T72 turbo with .96 exhaust housing and it clears no problem. Also, my turbo's cold side sits slightly higher than my TPI throttle body, and it's more forward than your turbo, and the hood closes no problem. However, since your turbo flange is positioned a little more back, you will need to angle the turbo flange so that the exhaust housing is slightly over the valve cover, with the compressor housing facing slightly towards the coolant resevoir. That is how Ed fitted his turbo kit with AC, same principal. Here is a picture of Ed's BBS design, notice the clocked flange...

My turbo sits way higher and more forward than Ed's, and my hood closes no problem...

 

I think I see what you mean. The oil routing wouldn't be straight down through, having that at a slight angle isn't an issue?

Got any pictures of your setup? If you don't want to share them on the forum you can email them to me. (anesthes@cisdi.com).

Hrmm..

unfortunately I can't mock anything else up until I get the transmission back in the car. I shipped my 9" TH350 out saturday to get overhauled and took the 6" TH350 out of the car so i can use the direct drum and sprag in the other trans.

-- Joe

 

I don't mind sharing them at all...

 

So what you are saying is, wiggle the turbo in that area until I find a position where it 'fits' and weld an adapter to mate the flanges or move the flange somehow.

I'd rather not modify the manifold, but I'll try another mockup.

I'm still on the fence over the 2" crossover. I don't know that dumping 2 1/2" into 2" is going to be great for flow from the driver side.

-- Joe

 

No. Joe, look at the picture you posted of the turbo sitting on the turbo flange. Do you see how the bottom of the exhaust housing isn't fully seated on the turbo flange on the manifold? If you loosen the compressor housing from the center section of the turbo, and turn the compressor housing clockwise leaving the center section and exhaust housing in the same position, the exhaust side will go down and seat flush (it will fall into place) with the exhaust manifold because the compressor side is hitting the shock tower. Just try it...