ditch the tpi for a real intake and that single change will pick up 100+ hp no problem

 

Yup, that's just what Steve is thinking right about now after sinking thousands and thousands of dollars into this project, and with a now broken drivetrain lying on the ground; "more power!!!!!". Are you freaking high?

 

more poawahhhhhh is the cure for everything lol

i meant as in the intake swap would cover any additional drivetrain losses by going to a 9inch and th400 or whatever route he went for trans and rear

 

th400/9" weight and drivetrain losses wont even be noticeable. my car went 7.19 with 350rwhp when i first swapped the cammed lt1 in there. 60' wasnt great either, just a 1.58 or so.

 

gone

 

yup, meeting all of that criteria will be next to impossible.

honestly though, if you left the car alone and just fixed the fueling and swapped a th400/9" along with the rear suspension stuff, you could get it to leave hard and go a 6.99 or better. but it will lack overdrive and probably only get ~15mpg or something like that. but plenty of cars came from the factory with no overdrive, even up into the 80's.... like i know an '84 monte ss had a 3.42 gear with no o/d. the o/d issue quadruples the trans price and doubles the price of a converter. a freshened up stock th400 will handle what you need and cost like $400. a GOOD converter (i mean good as in could be raced professionally) will run $8-900. you are local to FTI converters, i would give them a call and discuss a 4l80 or th400 and see what they could do. they did my converter.
rearend- dont need anything fancy. just a strange/moser 12 bolt with 33 spline axles would fit the bill nicely and i dont think you would ever break it in this lifetime. the strange is not all that much heavier than a stock rear, since the axle tubes are about the same size. moser has larger axle tubes. 9" rear will be a little heavier still.

but, your trans is sill good...... could just swap the rear for now and keep rollin.

 

Honestly I think it's time for you to move onto something else, I'm surprised you kept going after the head gasket went. I know what you're after, a nice drivable street car that has some ***** but the more money you keep dropping on it that more pissed off your going to get if things don't work out. Plus there is no resale value if you change your mind halfway through like you said. To bad too cause you sound pretty happy with the car when it doesn't act up.

 

You kinda need to go siamesed tpi or short runner intake to get rid of all the torque thats breaking crap in your car. Puh torque band up higher, bleed off peak trq and make hp to cover your losses. Gear/converter to work, thats how you make parts live

Dont need much more different bottom end for abit more power and less trq. Stock block will do what it needs for 6's. thats only 550 whp in a heavy ride

 

why not just fix the rear end, for the fuel issue why not try a cooler on the return line to try lower fuel temps. maybe use a at trany cooler.

 

1) Fuel problems
2) Transmission problems
3) Rear end problems
4) Body problems (paint, damage)

Sounds like the start of a good build. But he's been at it for how long now?

I don't blame him for wanting to throw in the towel.

The car is cursed.

-- Joe

 

Haha good one!

 

the rear end should have been upgraded from the start u really shouldnt count that as an added exspense ,

as far as the transmission u have been beating on that thing for how many years now? i would say u deffinatly got ur moneys worth/use out of it specially considering it broke only cause u broke the rear , u should have stuck a new clutch pack in it while u had it apart and goten another few years out of it

id like to know how a 9 inch rears is 4,000 $'s
u can buy a brand new bolt in housing and axle package for 600$'s u can pick up a complete center section for 200-600 bucks

the engine is fine for another 100 hp , look at martys builds 700-800 whp on stock stuff nowere near as good as the stuff u have
24+ psi and 75-150 shot of nitrous on his stuff

my motor is similar but has some good parts as well should easily make those numbers without nitrous and came in at under 2k for the whole package

 

I agree with Dave, that rear end should have been upgraded a long time ago. Considering how many times it got trashed though, he definitely got his moneys worth. Dave, I am sure you remember Shawn... he would go on and on about how the 9-bolt in the TTA's were so strong, and could literally take a beating, but what everyone overlooked was that he raced his TTA's what, maybe "twice" a year. Steve has been pouncing on this thing so many times, way more I'm sure than what everyone see's in the videos, he was probably flooring it back and forth to the supermarket everyday lol. Definitely got his money's worth out of the stock parts. Anyways, back to the new show "The Resurrection".

 

same car, swap in a th400/12 bolt and 1.40 60'..... talk amongst yourselves. go.

 

Martys trans am already had a th400 and a 9in rear just the motor was stock wore out junk. Check out brute speed for 9in rears. They have good prices and the shipping is included.

 

As a 9-bolter the mileage steve got out of his has me very enouraged for the future of mine. Lets hope mine lasts through as much abuse as his.

 

gone

 

And why not exactly? Who here wouldn't want a 700hp capable turbo v8 third gen ? And how exactly is he not a real thirdgen er ? He's been On this forum for 10 plus years ... u have 10 posts

 

Don't feed the troll!

-- Joe

 

In this video.......whats up with your voltmeter at 48-50 seconds......it jitters. Could that be an issue? Or is it normal?

 

That post was deleted.... nevermind i guess.

 

A custom one off turbo car that requires tuning knowledge to own is something that is above 90% of the thirdgen population imo. Its not cheap to do or own as this thread is finding out. Most real thirdgenners, sad to say, drive around in bolt on cars at best and are not always classy examples of what these cars are capable of being. Thats been my experience. I rarely see anyone invest serious time or energy into these cars in real life. Not on forums

 

Steve, I feel alittle of your pain too. My trans didn't take well to the new 76mm turbo. Input drum exploded. But im keeping the 700r4. Im getting a sonnax input drum, it eliminates the 3-4 clutch issues in the 700r4/4l60. My trans guy says WOT 3-4 shifts are not a problem at 1000hp with the sonnax drum. I cant wait for a highway pull WOT in 4th gear with 3.23 gears. lol

 

This is the input drum. Check it out. http://www.sonnax.com/parts/2451-77733-06K

 

You misinterpreted what I was saying.

-(bottom line im trying to get him to keep it. Help out or hush)-

--(Also...I first joined here in 2006...)

 

What was your previous username?

-- Joe

 

glad to see you changed the rear end. never though about changing the hood with a cowl induccion to get heat out of the engine bay.

 

You're right but it's not just a Thirdgen thing. Cars of this caliber don't come along often in most makes/models. period. You either wind up with stock cars, quicker modified street cars or super quick race cars, or people that throw a buncha **** on their car from Autozone to make it look cool. How many stangs/civics/whatevers have some exhaust stickers and god knows what else on them to be "cool." There was a video someone posted in the general engine section where the guy goes into all the stuff you have to know to run a shop. It really comes to mind at this point, Steve getting everything this far together is really beating the odds, even with the issues he has had.

This car is fast but with the idea of being a minimal to no compromise street car, that means hop in the driver's seat and go, have all the extras like air, get good mpg and be able to drive on the highway at a non-obnoxious RPM along with good looks and a minimal amount of the bad manners a racier car has like overheating, a fuel system you have to shout over, and an exhaust system that could make you the target of every PD officer 3 miles away.

Besides that for all the hate on the 9 bolt, it did well considering it was stone stock and he was beating on it for a long time. I know it's NOT a cheap replacement to get a new one in there, but if he pulled a used one from somewhere for a few hundred it's really not bad. It just sucks there's not a ton of aftermarket for them here so building one up would be a pain. Wonder if anyone down under builds these up, and what their success/cost is?

 

i recently built a rear for an '04 gto. the 3rd member in those cars is the same as our 9 bolt. i installed:
4.10 ring/pinion ~$600
wavtrac diff $1300
install kit/bearings $250
1400hp axle shafts/hubs $1500

drove to the track nice and quiet. made 2-3 passes in a ~420rwhp manual car on slicks and drove home making some noise. they quote these parts good to 1000+hp, but its still a 7.5" ring and pinion.

 

And i broke my 9 bolt in a 14.0 sec pass with stock motor. Things happen lol. I wouldnt rate a 7.75" ring pinion to 1000 hp reliably

 

[QUOTE=DIGGLER;5728302 they quote these parts good to 1000+hp, but its still a 7.5" ring and pinion.[/QUOTE]

I know the 9 bolt I had stayed together for along time, for what it's worth my 9 bolt was 7.75 ring gear. Although, there are some 7.5 out there still. Anyone needing parts can use these web site: http://www.9bolt.com/

 

gone

 

7.5 vs 7.75 won't make any difference in the grand scheme of things. Gto may be a 7.75 too, I'm not sure. Still a little bitty thing.

 

10 bolt and 9 bolt both = junk anyway u look at it , even the 8.5inch 10 bolt is still junk

 

I don't know how many weeks ago I asked you what was going on, but I finally found time to catch up with you in this thread...

Wait.

A _stock_ tpi will flow pretty close to 200cfm per port/runner (maybe with some minor clean up). The heads should be close to that too (if anything the heads are probably a restriction before the intake). That's enough for pretty close to 400hp na in a well matched combination, and at the boost pressures you're talking about (just under 20psi), even if you're in a crappy area for the turbo (and I would actually argue that something in the 67-70mm range would be perfect for what you're trying to do) and only around a 70% adiabatic efficiency and similar intercooler efficiency that still puts you at a density ratio of around 2:1, in other words, plenty to make damned close to 800hp and way surpass your goals.

I'm sorry, but you could have run 6.99 with the previous manifolds and a better exhaust. Water (and $$$) under the bridge, at least you ended up with a nicer looking setup that's easier to work on. You would have done it at some point anyway, just not to meet that goal.

Your drivetrain issues- if you want to regularly beat on it, especially at the track you need stronger parts. If this is really going to be a fast street car with a track day here and there they can live if you quit beating on them like you are. Watching a few minutes of that last video you probably didn't break the gears with raw power, but instead getting in it and pedaling it repeatedly, the shock of loading and unloading, loosing traction and suddenly grabbing when you pedal it... the gears in those things do live through a surprising amount of power if you avoid the load unload bit. The posi can be a bit of a wear item, you just have to rebuild them regularly, but the axles are no stronger than any other 28 spline axles- I've twisted some with a "stock" L98 (and N2O, but not on the run I did damage) and a spool while the gears lived fine.

the 700- I love them in a street car, I don't think anyone has made them live long term in a "race" car making real power. If you want to run it it's like running a TH350 in a fast car, you'll need to put the best hard parts in it you can and then pull and freshen the frictions regularly.

Fuel system- I know you spiked >40A to the circuit when you went lean before, was that with the booster in there? Have you tried to hook up an ammeter to see if your power draw is spiking every time you loose pressure? Have you tried reading fuel pressure at the back of the car, say between the pump outlet and the fuel filter? If your power use is still spiking at the pump that implies that pressure is going up there, if an injector was sticking open and dumping out the pressure at the rails, that would unload the pump and lower the current draw. If I have this right (that you are seeing a current draw spike, you need to do some testing to figure that out), and the voltage is staying up at the pump then you probably have a restriction right after the pump. If the voltage is dropping then you have a power problem at the pump.

Some numbers would help figuring out what is going on or at least determine if you need to look elsewhere. I think that in the end the single walbro will be borderline, even with the voltage booster. The aeromotive should have been OK but as people have pointed out they can be suspect (honestly, I've had just as many problems with walbros that work OK at regular use but crap out at their limits, I've dropped the same tank 3x in a week swapping 255lph walbros before getting one that worked everywhere).

Maybe try all this stationary, car not running, jack the fuel pressure to 70-80psi and see what happens to your power draw and flow.

I honestly think that the car isn't cursed you're just bumping up against the reality of parts at this power level, plus jumping to conclusions without knowing (spending more money) + frustration caused by real life problems getting in the way. Try to stop and breathe for a bit, don't plan on being at a race for a while, if it's running drive it and do some testing before you change anything else. If you do I would suggest trying to simplify (honestly, I feel that your PLX gauge is probably part of the source of your frustration, too much stuff in one box and I'm suspect of it's accuracy).

The engine will more than make the power now, you have AC, you have a nice driver, this thing can be more than your original goals, you just need to work out the wrinkles. Forget selling it, you know that projects like this are not worth anything near what you put in them, and they never will be unless you make it perfect, and when it's perfect you won't want to sell it. Buying a new car is no better, you'll loose half it's value in the first 2 years and then it will become the same kind of money pit... heck you have a boat too, a hole you throw money into in the water...

 

gone

 

my familys shop does all of strange's warranty and repair work on the east coast, along with being a vendor
our cost on a complete bolt in 12bolt with all the bells and whistles is 1,600 bucks might even be a lil lower then that

a bolt in strange s60 is 2,300 or 2400 bucks

the moser unit which we are also a vendor for runs in at just under 2k for a pretty loaded complete unit
a 4k rear is just insane

 

I look at it more from the rpm standpoint. He is cammed so an hsr or other short intake will support higher rpm power. It wont fall off as much or as quick. He could be up 50-75 ho by 5800 rpm over say stockish tpi because tpi will peak 4500 and drop from there. Tuned length isnt right for more rpm. Even hsr on stock l98 moves powerband 500-700 rpm right. 4400 on my tpi stocker, 5000 rpm in my hsr swap. No other changes. Thats alot of area under curve

 

for an engine to make 800hp at 4500 rpms, it would need to produce 933 ft. lbs of torque. would be a very impressive tpi!

 

The turbo can be used to extend the RPM range, and it will have more of an affect on the power band than the cam or intake will. Significant boost pressures will overcome harmonic tuning (lets face it, _fully_ optimized, with no taper to the intake ports and perfect cam timing the runners on a TPI will give you a harmonic peak around 7% over no tuning at somewhere between 3300 and 4000rpm, where a density ratio of over 2:1 means a peak of around 100% _anywhere_ where the density ratio is maintained, who cares where the intake tunes for once he's in boost???).

Secondly, if I was building his combination for his goals I would have picked a cam in the 208-212 @ .050 and probably a 212 LSA to better match the rest of his combination.

The point is that _none_ of this is hurting getting to the goal. A 6.99 in the 1/8 is about a 10.9@125 in the 1/4. Assuming that the car is fairly heavy, lets say 3600#, you'll need about 550hp to run that. Lets even assume you do it on street tires and some extra weight, so it takes you 600hp... the parts he has should do that easy, just need to work together to do it.

And yes, this thing will have crazy torque, but not because of the TPI, but because the smallish turbo will spool fast making power down low. Much like running a lot of spray on a TPI or LT1, if you have that much extra power hitting at 3000 or so RPM you end up making crazy torque numbers. The nice thing about a turbo setup is that it should apply that fairly softly, with some judicious tuning and use of the right foot you can make the driveline live even if it's not bullet proof, and in this case the bigger than necessary 224/224 cam will soften things a little.

 

Oh, another thing I would try- pull the gas cap completely. if you're making a vacuum i the tank and the cap is loose, it can pull the cap tight making a seal and creating a vacuum in the tank that the marginal fuel system needs to work against.

I don't think the problem is heat, I don't think you've shown temps high enough to cause the problems, and heat wouldn't cause the kind of current draw spike that blew the 40A fuse a few pages back. Heck, if gas vapor got in the lines it would lower draw, though the pump motor getting warm would raise it some

 

the turbo doesnt really extend the power band with the tpi , look at a turbo tpi dyno sheet it looks just like an n/a sheet curve wise , just alot more power in the curve

 

gone

 

just order directly from strange

http://www.strangeengineering.net/ma...lts-studs.html

thats 1,495 + ship
add ur own posi , gears and brakes

or u can get the dragrace one with a spool ,no brakes for 2,100
the brakes arent exsepnsive u can source those yourself

i no longer see the street one listed that one had a hd posi 31 spline i belive axles and brakes so maybe they discontinued it ,hell dont look like any come with brakes anymore

heres a dana 60 for 2350
http://www.strangeengineering.net/ma...dy-mounts.html

the spooled version is 300$ cheaper

im sure if u call them they will substitue a posi for the spool

 

there is a guy selling 9" rears on ebay for our cars.
housing, axles, and torque arm bracket for $1,100 shipped. you'll need to run a set of 10 bolt brakes or LT1 brakes on it. same as the moser.
moser housing/axle package is available from paracing for 1200. shipping additional.

if you went with 31 spline axles, you could get a standard/nodular case with locker for around $500 or a used nascar center section setup with gear and locker for $800ish shipped. there is also a couple of those on ebay right now. that would make for a complete bolt in rear minus brakes. factory trac-loc is junk, so i would do something else, like the locker.
31 splines would probably be ok for your car. if you get down into the 1.3's on the 60' youll need some bigger axles.

i sold my decked out strange 12 bolt for $1700 a couple years ago.

 

Turbo helps to a degree but a good boosted motor is one that is a good na motor to begin with. Intake and cam have more of an effect than turbo alone. Just because density increased doesnt mean the physics of air flow and induction change. I believe they still have a role, as pressure ratios across port and chamber remain similar to na just at higher static pressures than na, but the exhaust side doesnt play as much of a factor with scavenging like it does in a na build. Case in point i ran same turbos on my 401 shortblock with same intake. Only differences were cam heads and slightly smaller turbine a/r but i was only 650-700 whp range so it wasnt much of a restriction.

Small cam small head spooled sooner but stopped pulling by 5500. It was falling off by 5800. New large head and cam setup goes to 7200 plus. Cam and heads still dictate alot of the power curve shape. Turbo can make it hang on longer than it would in na sometimes but the shape is still influenced by heads cam and induction. IMO

But thats a different issue and not necessarily a problem in this build for the goals desires but still could show some improvement so it was brought up

 

Try driving it with no hood...couldn't hurt...

 

Check out brutespeed.com thier prices include shipping and have some good packages with brakes for around 2500 if you want a spool

 

If you have a 9 bolt doesnt it already have pbr rears? Which are lt1's? Guess you need backing plates from a 4th gen and everything should work if you got a 12 bolt. Or find ls1 rear brakes for 100$

 

not sure why the 9 bolt brakes wont work, but they are specifically listed as not working on the moser, and the 10 bolt brakes work. (along with ls1/lt1)
my 9 bolt doesnt have pbr brakes on it. (i dont think?)
this info is for the moser rear, btw.

i would bet a strange 12 bolt could work with any of them. mine had small axle tubes barely larger than the stock 10 bolt.